MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL thread: 2018 Edition: Weighed in the balance, who will be found wanting?

[CTHORANGE]

Uh oh. Made the mistake of turning on AFL 360 now that my 8month old son has decided to sleep for a bit.

Robbo: WE NEED MOAR THEATRE IN THE GAYME!

Whately: The game is gearing up for not just one change, but a whole raft of changes. And the first will be starting positions.

Honestly, I'm out if they start bring these rules in. I'm honestly out. Surely I won't be the only one? Zones and starting positions is absolutely contrary to what Australian Rules is all about. Hate using the cliche but it is most certainly not aligned with the fabric of the game. I thought that was the first and most important part of the rules committee or image of the game committee or whatever they have called themselves - to not mess with the fabric of the game. Any zone at all or indeed any starting position at all is disruptive to the meaning of the sport.

Ugh

I've never been against the idea of starting positions at the centre bounce after a goal / start quarter, but beyond that I don't like the idea. You can just imagine the AFL thinking it will mean stay at home forwards / defenders, but the reality will be teams recruiting even higher endurance athletes (who probably have crap skills) to stand with one foot on the 50m arc ready to start running towards the contest as soon as the ball leaves the umpires hands (save maybe ball ups right in the middle of the wing). I don't particularly want to see players running back to touch a line then running off again, rugby league anyone?

Unfortunately they seem to be testing these rules in under age or semi-pro competitions, where obviously they don't have the endurance to run back and forth like seasoned AFL players and so they might think the rule change is going to be successful. Then of course the rule of unintended consequences inevitably follows.

 

[Topkent]

First 2 changes I'd like to see before the AFL brings in starting positions is cutting pre season down by 2 months and bring rotations down to 10 a quarter.

Literally force them to be less fit and you might find it's too hard to make everyone run all over the ground.

 

[TheCount]

First 2 changes I'd like to see before the AFL brings in starting positions is cutting pre season down by 2 months and bring rotations down to 10 a quarter.

Literally force them to be less fit and you might find it's too hard to make everyone run all over the ground.

I still think a major drop in rotations will bring the unfortunate side effect or a spike in injuries

 

[Topkent]

I still think a major drop in rotations will bring the unfortunate side effect or a spike in injuries

I don't understand this perspective? Teams never started rotating until 10 years ago and injuries were the same. If they do somehow start rising then stop making your players sprint all over the field and conserve energy.

 

[Klyntonius]

First 2 changes I'd like to see before the AFL brings in starting positions is cutting pre season down by 2 months and bring rotations down to 10 a quarter.

Literally force them to be less fit and you might find it's too hard to make everyone run all over the ground.

Curiously, how will this make the game a better spectacle to watch? I hear this argument a lot but I can't see how tired football will look attractive.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Curiously, how will this make the game a better spectacle to watch? I hear this argument a lot but I can't see how tired football will look attractive.

It should be less congested in theory due to fewer players following ball to the third and fourth contest.

And it probably will.

But, in line with your thinking, it would also have other unintended consequences like more skill errors due to fatigue. So we’d see less of those beautiful flat kicks that can break open a game. But we don’t see many of those as dees fans anyway!

 

[TheCount]

I don't understand this perspective? Teams never started rotating until 10 years ago and injuries were the same. If they do somehow start rising then stop making your players sprint all over the field and conserve energy.

Tired players push fatigued muscles too hard and injure them, it's nothing new. Wouldn't have thought too many coaches would be telling players to slow down if they're tried either.

 

[Topkent]

Tired players push fatigued muscles too hard and injure them, it's nothing new. Wouldn't have thought too many coaches would be telling players to slow down if they're tried either.

If your sports science guys can see people are exerting themselves too far, they'll take them off or tell them to rest at either end.

It should be less congested in theory due to fewer players following ball to the third and fourth contest.

And it probably will.

But, in line with your thinking, it would also have other unintended consequences like more skill errors due to fatigue. So we’d see less of those beautiful flat kicks that can break open a game. But we don’t see many of those as dees fans anyway!

Apart from Sam Mitchell I can't think of many footballers who could deliver like the blokes I used to watch when I was a kid. Your Jarmans Akers Yzes etc all developed fine without 5 months of nothing but running.
In fact id say the ability to kick to kick to a leading player is almost dead as a craft, the only kicks you see are to stationary players.

Players will cope fine with being tired because they will practice more under pressure, and if they don't back themselves to make a kick they'll move it quickly and long.

Can't be any worse than footy in 2018, it's a horrible sport to watch at the moment. I used to be proud telling Canadians about it, now not so much.

 

[Topkent]

Curiously, how will this make the game a better spectacle to watch? I hear this argument a lot but I can't see how tired football will look attractive.

Key forwards will stop being forced to play as midfielders and only the ones with elite tanks will be able to. Midfielders will battle more head to head as they can't constantly rotate. Should spread the field out. I also don't think bad skills make footy unwatchable, the ball not moving across the field for 5 mins at a time is.

 

[blitznu]

Id hate to see clubs just go after marathon runners if they dropped rotations and not pick up actual footballers cause they couldnt run all day. Every change we make clubs are going to make it go the wrong way. Footy is now horrible to watch * all skill just hack it forward lock it in i actual couldnt care less about watching it anymore its rubbish.

 

[Topkent]

Id hate to see clubs just go after marathon runners if they dropped rotations and not pick up actual footballers cause they couldnt run all day. Every change we make clubs are going to make it go the wrong way. Footy is now horrible to watch **** all skill just hack it forward lock it in i actual couldnt care less about watching it anymore its rubbish.

The ball can always move faster than players. If blokes can't run all the time they'll kick it long therefore you'll need someone to kick it too. A team of Robbie Grays will beat a team of Mark Blicavs every day of the week.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

If your sports science guys can see people are exerting themselves too far, they'll take them off or tell them to rest at either end.


Apart from Sam Mitchell I can't think of many footballers who could deliver like the blokes I used to watch when I was a kid. Your Jarmans Akers Yzes etc all developed fine without 5 months of nothing but running.
In fact id say the ability to kick to kick to a leading player is almost dead as a craft, the only kicks you see are to stationary players.

Players will cope fine with being tired because they will practice more under pressure, and if they don't back themselves to make a kick they'll move it quickly and long.

Can't be any worse than footy in 2018, it's a horrible sport to watch at the moment. I used to be proud telling Canadians about it, now not so much.

Meh, not gonna try to argue with you topsy, we know your feelings. Going back to what I actually wrote, is it untrue?

 

[Topkent]

Meh, not gonna try to argue with you topsy, we know your feelings. Going back to what I actually wrote, is it untrue?

There's no evidence that skills will go down with fatigue, skills are already at an all time low. Fatigue will mean space opens up and blokes will be able to hit kicks that aren't under extreme pressure every time so it will mitigate the extra 'fatigue'

 

[stretcharmstrong]

There's no evidence that skills will go down with fatigue, skills are already at an all time low. Fatigue will mean space opens up and blokes will be able to hit kicks that aren't under extreme pressure every time so it will mitigate the extra 'fatigue'

You can’t say there’s no evidence that skill will go down with fatigue! Well I guess you can because I haven’t presented any and don’t intend to, but it seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to make. Surely?

I’ll give you that the ‘open space’ and potential drop off in ‘extreme pressure’ will mitigate the effects of fatigue on skills, to an extent.

And what’s with the dr whooooo style use of these things ‘ ‘ on real, literal words? Don’t you believe in fatigue?

 

[Topkent]

You can’t say there’s no evidence that skill will go down with fatigue! Well I guess you can because I haven’t presented any and don’t intend to, but it seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to make. Surely?

I’ll give you that the ‘open space’ and potential drop off in ‘extreme pressure’ will mitigate the effects of fatigue on skills, to an extent.

And what’s with the dr whooooo style use of these things ‘ ‘ on real, literal words? Don’t you believe in fatigue?

I dunno mate I guess I'm just at a tipping point with footy where I'm sick of watching it naturally progress. I don't enjoy the modern game and I'm happy for them to try something radical now to fix it.

If you drop rotations and the first month of footy is dog s**t you can change them back pretty easily.

 

[TheCount]

If your sports science guys can see people are exerting themselves too far, they'll take them off or tell them to rest at either end.

Except there are much less rotations, so thats not much of an option, and resting at either end isn't much of one either, when a player comes under fire for not chasing or applying pressure, and they say "But, I was resting forward!!!"

I'll take starting positions (rather than zones) over a dramatic cut to rotations comfortably.

 

[Topkent]

Except there are much less rotations, so thats not much of an option, and resting at either end isn't much of one either, when a player comes under fire for not chasing or applying pressure, and they say "But, I was resting forward!!!"

I'll take starting positions (rather than zones) over a dramatic cut to rotations comfortably.

I'm fine with that aswell. I just want to see forwards play as bloody forwards again.

 

[Klyntonius]

Key forwards will stop being forced to play as midfielders and only the ones with elite tanks will be able to. Midfielders will battle more head to head as they can't constantly rotate. Should spread the field out. I also don't think bad skills make footy unwatchable, the ball not moving across the field for 5 mins at a time is.

Perhaps. I have too much respect for coaches to believe they won't come up with new tactics to cause congestion and I worry about a return to drafting athletes over footballers. And I find bad skills make football unwatchable for me. There is no enjoyment in a turnover-fest. It's the main reason I barely watch anymore - the current skill level is woeful. I can't see there is a simple remedy to the situation because the problems are so multi-faceted. But the game needs to change so good luck to those looking to make alterations to improve the product.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I think that the constant rule changes and interpretation are what's driving the fans away. It looks that every year or so the game looks worse and worse. Gill is prone to knee-jerk reactions and questionable decisions.

 

[Cannon82]

You can’t say there’s no evidence that skill will go down with fatigue! Well I guess you can because I haven’t presented any and don’t intend to, but it seems like a pretty reasonable assumption to make. Surely?

I’ll give you that the ‘open space’ and potential drop off in ‘extreme pressure’ will mitigate the effects of fatigue on skills, to an extent.

And what’s with the dr whooooo style use of these things ‘ ‘ on real, literal words? Don’t you believe in fatigue?

Skills drop off with fatigue, but I think the Kent makes an interesting point. What's worse: skill drop-off with fatigue or poor skills due to congestion? I think definitely congestion. I actually like the idea. It's similar to the idea of extra time in football; the game opens up a lot more when players get knackered, more chances created, and the elite cream rise to the top (or get the s**t kicked out of then).

On the flippity flipside, watching the quality players slalom their way through traffic with poise is also tickety boo, but the only genuinely class exponents of that left in the game at the moment are Pendlebury, Fyfe and Wagner. That's why Jake Melksham is a s**t player.

 

[Cannon82]

Except there are much less rotations, so thats not much of an option, and resting at either end isn't much of one either, when a player comes under fire for not chasing or applying pressure, and they say "But, I was resting forward!!!"

I'll take starting positions (rather than zones) over a dramatic cut to rotations comfortably.

You're hardly unbiased, though. You love counting rotations.

 

[TheCount]

You're hardly unbiased, though. You love counting rotations.

It’s the only thing worth watching for any more!

 

[MarcMaverick]

You're hardly unbiased, though. You love counting rotations.

Well, he isn't called TheCount for no reason.

 

[Cannon82]

Well, he isn't called TheCount for no reason.

The joke was saying the Count liked rotations because he likes to count things.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Jeez, wheres Reiner Wolfcastle when you need him...