MFC Fans Only Non Dees AFL thread 2019 edition- Thank god its over. Tylenol NOW!

TheCount

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Our Watts blunder is nothing compared to the Saints going for McCartain. Even if you think Trac has stalled, he's still done more than McCartain after missing his first season with a busted leg
You have to feel sorry for the bloke, particularly when you hear about the issues he's had with these concussions, but really, it's saved him from being proven as an absolute failure of a number 1 pick. The article about him sitting out next season had the stats pro section they do for all players when it's an article about them, and he's rated average for marks, and below average for everything else. St Kilda will be able to say that concussion prevented him from ever being able to show his best, but I think it was pretty clear from what he did show that he was just a bog average footballer.
 

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schmuttt

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You have to feel sorry for the bloke, particularly when you hear about the issues he's had with these concussions, but really, it's saved him from being proven as an absolute failure of a number 1 pick. The article about him sitting out next season had the stats pro section they do for all players when it's an article about them, and he's rated average for marks, and below average for everything else. St Kilda will be able to say that concussion prevented him from ever being able to show his best, but I think it was pretty clear from what he did show that he was just a bog average footballer.
Classic guy who did well at u/18 level due to his size but couldn't bring it across to AFL level. Would probably make a good VFL FF, Hawkins did the same at u/18 level but he is much bigger than McCartin.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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bloke was/is a spud anyway

The concussion issues have kept the media at bay in regards to his performance/skill level

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I'll go to hell for this but he's essentially the Philip Hughes of footy. Media loved to roast Hughesy constantly for his shit technique and extremely limited range and then he died and became their darling and Australia had lost one of its finest batting hopes.
 

Topkent

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I'll go to hell for this but he's essentially the Philip Hughes of footy. Media loved to roast Hughesy constantly for his shit technique and extremely limited range and then he died and became their darling and Australia had lost one of its finest batting hopes.
Well to be fair Hughes had started making runs again at the domestic level so he was right in line for selection again. Considering how bad our batting is he would still be getting a game for us now probably
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Well to be fair Hughes had started making runs again at the domestic level so he was right in line for selection again. Considering how bad our batting is he would still be getting a game for us now probably
He made 600 runs inc a double century in the 2013/14 Shield and then 170 runs from five innings in the season in which he died, after averaging 28 in his last year of test cricket from nine matches. Pretty decent but hardly a star turnaround given his issue was never making domestic runs against dud bowlers, it was fronting up against international ones who actually put time into working him out. It’s the problem with recruiting batsmen from NSW where they never have to bat against the best coached pace unit (their own) in Australian first class cricket. You’d like to think he might have improved as he matured and pulled a Steve Smith but there was no evidence to suggest it was likely.
 

Topkent

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He made 600 runs inc a double century in the 2013/14 Shield and then 170 runs from five innings in the season in which he died, after averaging 28 in his last year of test cricket from nine matches. Pretty decent but hardly a star turnaround given his issue was never making domestic runs against dud bowlers, it was fronting up against international ones who actually put time into working him out. It’s the problem with recruiting batsmen from NSW where they never have to bat against the best coached pace unit (their own) in Australian first class cricket. You’d like to think he might have improved as he matured and pulled a Steve Smith but there was no evidence to suggest it was likely.
I don't think he was capable of averaging 50 at test level but 40? Yeah I reckon. Certainly more capable than Marsh and some of the other scrubs
 

00Stinger

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I'll go to hell for this but he's essentially the Philip Hughes of footy. Media loved to roast Hughesy constantly for his shit technique and extremely limited range and then he died and became their darling and Australia had lost one of its finest batting hopes.
tbf Hughes was a good cricketer who couldnt deal with a short ball.

McCartin has a shit tank and is a shit mark. The media have been soft on him because of his concussion issues and he goes out with Brownless/Lyons daughter/in law.



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Cannon82

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I don't think he was capable of averaging 50 at test level but 40? Yeah I reckon. Certainly more capable than Marsh and some of the other scrubs
Would have had to completely reinvent himself. Hughes' technique was horrendous. Marsh's technique is quite solid - its his concentration and shot selection that let him down. Guys like Marsh (Callum Ferguson etc) are teases in that they absolutely look the part when in form and batting well, but get out cheaply and fail too often. Hughes was punching above his weight in a way - his first class record is pretty bloody good for a bloke with one shot.
 

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Topkent

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Would have had to completely reinvent himself. Hughes' technique was horrendous. Marsh's technique is quite solid - its his concentration and shot selection that let him down. Guys like Marsh (Callum Ferguson etc) are teases in that they absolutely look the part when in form and batting well, but get out cheaply and fail too often. Hughes was punching above his weight in a way - his first class record is pretty bloody good for a bloke with one shot.
Don't know about having to completely reinvent himself. Scored centuries against a bloody good saffer attack over there. Pretty sure he could have easily averaged around 40 at test level.
 

Cannon82

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Don't know about having to completely reinvent himself. Scored centuries against a bloody good saffer attack over there. Pretty sure he could have easily averaged around 40 at test level.
Yep, when he first came in to the side. After analysts had had a brief look at his technique, he was getting caught by Martin Guptill at second slip every innings. He scored three centuries in 26 Tests, and two of those were in his second Test. His Test average was down to 32 odd - he wasn't bringing that back up to 40+ without working on his game and adding some more strings to the bow.
 

Topkent

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Yep, when he first came in to the side. After analysts had had a brief look at his technique, he was getting caught by Martin Guptill at second slip every innings. He scored three centuries in 26 Tests, and two of those were in his second Test. His Test average was down to 32 odd - he wasn't bringing that back up to 40+ without working on his game and adding some more strings to the bow.
Which he easily could have. He was 25 or something when he passed away. Most guys aren't at their best as a bat in their early 20s. I don't think he had a world class technique by any means but considering some of the blokes like Khawaja have played 50 odd tests I reckon he would have gone allright.
 

Cannon82

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Which he easily could have. He was 25 or something when he passed away. Most guys aren't at their best as a bat in their early 20s. I don't think he had a world class technique by any means but considering some of the blokes like Khawaja have played 50 odd tests I reckon he would have gone allright.
Khawaja has appalling footwork and enjoys lazily fishing outside off far too often. He has more than one shot, though. Hughes had one of the worst and most limited techniques I've ever seen.
 

Topkent

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Khawaja has appalling footwork and enjoys lazily fishing outside off far too often. He has more than one shot, though. Hughes had one of the worst and most limited techniques I've ever seen.
You don't fluke scoring runs against that south African attack.
 

Cannon82

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You don't fluke scoring runs against that south African attack.
Sure you can, that's what a fluke is. The thing you can't fluke is consistently scoring runs with glaring technical deficiencies in your game. I'm not saying he couldn't bat - he clearly could, but he was never going to reestablish himself at the top level while he kept clunking balls outside off at catchable height to slip / gully every innings.
 

Topkent

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Sure you can, that's what a fluke is. The thing you can't fluke is consistently scoring runs with glaring technical deficiencies in your game. I'm not saying he couldn't bat - he clearly could, but he was never going to reestablish himself at the top level while he kept clunking balls outside off at catchable height to slip / gully every innings.
He was 25..... He was a baby at test level. I agree he couldn't have averaged 50 but 40? Yeah I reckon he would score enough runs to do that.

Pretty pointless, but even with the worst technique you've ever seen he averaged 32, tighten it up 10% and he still would have been a decent test bat.
 

Cannon82

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He was 25..... He was a baby at test level. I agree he couldn't have averaged 50 but 40? Yeah I reckon he would score enough runs to do that.

Pretty pointless, but even with the worst technique you've ever seen he averaged 32, tighten it up 10% and he still would have been a decent test bat.
Nah. He was getting worse, not better. Have a look at the run of single digit scores he was churning out in his most recent Tests in 2013. He may well have changed in his mid to late 20s, but he hadn't changed and its a reach to assume he would.
 

Topkent

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Nah. He was getting worse, not better. Have a look at the run of single digit scores he was churning out in his most recent Tests in 2013. He may well have changed in his mid to late 20s, but he hadn't changed and its a reach to assume he would.
I'd think it's a reach to say a bloke who was 25 couldn't improve enough to average an extra 7..
 

Cannon82

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I'd think it's a reach to say a bloke who was 25 couldn't improve enough to average an extra 7..
And we said the same thing about Jack Watts for 5 years, too. Khawaja has had the same deficiencies in his game for his entire career, and so have plenty of other players. You can hope a player improves their game, but don't bank on it happening. Clearly a moot point here but we always fall into the trap of wanting development to be a linear progression when that's clearly not the case. Some people improve out of sight, a la Steve Smith (and its a rarity), and plenty stagnate and hardly improve at all / operate within the same limitations they always have.

Anyway, surely this is enough back and forth on the topic. I'll just leave it here and finish by saying you're a campaigner, nickgrant69.
 

Topkent

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And we said the same thing about Jack Watts for 5 years, too. Khawaja has had the same deficiencies in his game for his entire career, and so have plenty of other players. You can hope a player improves their game, but don't bank on it happening. Clearly a moot point here but we always fall into the trap of wanting development to be a linear progression when that's clearly not the case. Some people improve out of sight, a la Steve Smith (and its a rarity), and plenty stagnate and hardly improve at all / operate within the same limitations they always have.

Anyway, surely this is enough back and forth on the topic. I'll just leave it here and finish by saying you're a campaigner, nickgrant69.
Choke on some Great Northern campaigner.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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tbf Hughes was a good cricketer who couldnt deal with a short ball.

McCartin has a shit tank and is a shit mark. The media have been soft on him because of his concussion issues and he goes out with Brownless/Lyons daughter/in law.



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He couldn’t deal with ones full outside off either which is basically the opposite of the short ball.
 

Crusty Demon

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tbf Hughes was a good cricketer who couldnt deal with a short ball.

McCartin has a shit tank and is a shit mark. The media have been soft on him because of his concussion issues and he goes out with Brownless/Lyons daughter/in law.



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One thing McCartin could do besides getting concussed is mark the ball. Not sure why you think he's a shit mark??

Agree on Phil Hughes though. I'm fairly certain he'd be a mainstay in this test team right now. Had some deficiencies in his batting as everyone does, but he was talented. Absolutely could have been averaging 40 at test level.
 

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