MFC Fans Only Non Dees AFL thread 2019 edition

Jibroni

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Does anyone think GC is worse that us during the Bailey/Neeld years?

Granted they have lost a few players but I don't think the no worse off.
 

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Sylvia Saint

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Agreed. Name one team that’s won a flag with a top 10 pick on its list
GWS had like 80% of ALL top 10 picks for a while there and have zero flags to show for it.

A top 10 pick has about a 20% chance of being a star (eg. Clayton Oliver), a 50% chance of being a solid player (Petracca, Brayshaw) and a 30% chance of being injury prone, traded out or just no good (McCartin, Pickett, O'Rourke). I wouldn't trade a top 10 pick for peanuts, nor would I trade it out every year but May is a very good player.

It also reminds me of the big outcry when we traded pick 25 for Melksham. Milkshakes could retire tomorrow and we still win that trade.

fu** draft picks. I know Roosy would agree with me if he was reading this!
 

Gysberts2Bate

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GWS had like 80% of ALL top 10 picks for a while there and have zero flags to show for it.

A top 10 pick has about a 20% chance of being a star (eg. Clayton Oliver), a 50% chance of being a solid player (Petracca, Brayshaw) and a 30% chance of being injury prone, traded out or just no good (McCartin, Pickett, O'Rourke). I wouldn't trade a top 10 pick for peanuts, nor would I trade it out every year but May is a very good player.

It also reminds me of the big outcry when we traded pick 25 for Melksham. Milkshakes could retire tomorrow and we still win that trade.

fu** draft picks. I know Roosy would agree with me if he was reading this!
Exactly. No team has ever benefitted from going to the draft.
 

Demon bhoy

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GWS had like 80% of ALL top 10 picks for a while there and have zero flags to show for it.

A top 10 pick has about a 20% chance of being a star (eg. Clayton Oliver), a 50% chance of being a solid player (Petracca, Brayshaw) and a 30% chance of being injury prone, traded out or just no good (McCartin, Pickett, O'Rourke). I wouldn't trade a top 10 pick for peanuts, nor would I trade it out every year but May is a very good player.

It also reminds me of the big outcry when we traded pick 25 for Melksham. Milkshakes could retire tomorrow and we still win that trade.

fu** draft picks. I know Roosy would agree with me if he was reading this!
If we say fu** draft picks, what’s our other option for getting the next Gawn or Oliver more picks and the lower they are the better especially with live trading, I’d also argue melksham had a better resume than did May but both had done fu** all when the club got them, neither are match winners, ok to good but milkshakes has been better than I thought, fingers crossed May becomes what his never been.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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If we say fu** draft picks, what’s our other option for getting the next Gawn or Oliver more picks and the lower they are the better especially with live trading, I’d also argue melksham had a better resume than did May but both had done fu** all when the club got them, neither are match winners, ok to good but milkshakes has been better than I thought, fingers crossed May becomes what his never been.
I for one would be much happier if we’d just traded pick 4 to St Kilda for Carlisle like Essendon did.
 

Demon bhoy

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I for one would be much happier if we’d just traded pick 4 to St Kilda for Carlisle like Essendon did.
Yeah that’s putrid, from memory saints had a massive crush on him but were holding out on pick 5, the hawks made an offer and the saints s**t their pants and the rest is history, sort of rings a bell except the dees didn’t even play hard to get, we gave it away on the first night.

Moral of the story don’t trade top 10 picks for KPD, especially ones with a modest track record.
 

TheCount

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Yeah that’s putrid, from memory saints had a massive crush on him but were holding out on pick 5, the hawks made an offer and the saints s**t their pants and the rest is history, sort of rings a bell except the dees didn’t even play hard to get, we gave it away on the first night.

Moral of the story don’t trade top 10 picks for KPD, especially ones with a modest track record.
While I love to s**t on St Kilda as much as the next guy, they got a mid teens pick back, which they took Gresham with ... so while Carlisle is complete rubbish, Gresham is a better player than Francis (at this point anyway) who Essendon took with the pick.
 

Sylvia Saint

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If you guys are going to get judgemental then at least get the facts right.

St Kilda traded pick 5 for Carlisle and pick 18.

Pick 5 became Francis and pick 18 became Gresham.

Saints won that easily.

Loading up on early draft picks is so 2008. How did that go for us.
 

TheCount

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If you guys are going to get judgemental then at least get the facts right.

St Kilda traded pick 5 for Carlisle and pick 18.

Pick 5 became Francis and pick 18 became Gresham.

Saints won that easily.

Loading up on early draft picks is so 2008. How did that go for us.
Beat you ;)
 

Gysberts2Bate

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If you guys are going to get judgemental then at least get the facts right.

St Kilda traded pick 5 for Carlisle and pick 18.

Pick 5 became Francis and pick 18 became Gresham.

Saints won that easily.

Loading up on early draft picks is so 2008. How did that go for us.
Nah St Kilda got pick 18 from Sydney because they also traded picks to Sydney for them to use for academy points to get Mills. Should probably get your facts right. The bare bones of that deal is 5 for Carlisle. And even if not, why didn't we get a first rounder back from GC?

How did loading up on draft picks go for Hawthorn in the early 2000s? They got Hodge, Roughead, Franklin and Lewis. But yeah they probably would have won 4 flags without those guys.
 

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Gysberts2Bate

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Yeah that’s putrid, from memory saints had a massive crush on him but were holding out on pick 5, the hawks made an offer and the saints s**t their pants and the rest is history, sort of rings a bell except the dees didn’t even play hard to get, we gave it away on the first night.

Moral of the story don’t trade top 10 picks for KPD, especially ones with a modest track record.
Brisbane got Lachie Neale with the same pick we traded for May lol.
 

TheCount

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Nah St Kilda got pick 18 from Sydney because they also traded picks to Sydney for them to use for academy points to get Mills. Should probably get your facts right. The bare bones of that deal is 5 for Carlisle. And even if not, why didn't we get a first rounder back from GC?

How did loading up on draft picks go for Hawthorn in the early 2000s? They got Hodge, Roughead, Franklin and Lewis. But yeah they probably would have won 4 flags without those guys.
It was a 3 way trade ... 5 for Carlisle wasn't happening until Sydney got involved, so it's very much part of the deal.

St Kilda: Carlisle and 14 (18 after academy picks)
Essendon: 5, 24 and Craig Bird
Sydney: 23 and 44 (Odd really, given all that got them was an extra 16 points)
 

TheCount

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Brisbane got Lachie Neale with the same pick we traded for May lol.
And while we're being accurate with trade deals ... In no way did we pay the same for May that Bris paid for Neale.

It was Neale and Pick 30, for Pick 6, 19 and 55

While we got May and KK for Pick 6 ... not the least bit the same.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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And while we're being accurate with trade deals ... In no way did we pay the same for May that Bris paid for Neale.

It was Neale and Pick 30, for Pick 6, 19 and 55

While we got May and KK for Pick 6 ... not the least bit the same.
The fact that KK even played one game for us is a miracle, and Brisbane going from pick 19 to 30 isn't much of a sacrifice. It's the value to extract something good from the top pick that matters - Brisbane got one of the best players in the comp by going down 11 places in the second round and giving up pick 55 (lol) and we got May and an eggplant.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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It was a 3 way trade ... 5 for Carlisle wasn't happening until Sydney got involved, so it's very much part of the deal.

St Kilda: Carlisle and 14 (18 after academy picks)
Essendon: 5, 24 and Craig Bird
Sydney: 23 and 44 (Odd really, given all that got them was an extra 16 points)
Should pass this on to Mahoney, maybe he could have told GC to go and find us a pick 14.
 

Demon bhoy

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If you guys are going to get judgemental then at least get the facts right.

St Kilda traded pick 5 for Carlisle and pick 18.

Pick 5 became Francis and pick 18 became Gresham.

Saints won that easily.

Loading up on early draft picks is so 2008. How did that go for us.
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Pick 14 came from Sydney not Essendon and became 18, Sydney turned 14 into 23 and 44 which became Callum mills at pick 3, Essendon also got bird for Sydney.

Sydney nailed it st kilda broke even, Essendon not so good but who gives a fu** about them.

My model for accumulating lots of high draft picks are Geelong and Hawthorn, 7 flags in 9 years between them
 

Demon bhoy

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The fact that KK even played one game for us is a miracle, and Brisbane going from pick 19 to 30 isn't much of a sacrifice. It's the value to extract something good from the top pick that matters - Brisbane got one of the best players in the comp by going down 11 places in the second round and giving up pick 55 (lol) and we got May and an eggplant.
We got nailed
 

Tom14

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The fact that KK even played one game for us is a miracle, and Brisbane going from pick 19 to 30 isn't much of a sacrifice. It's the value to extract something good from the top pick that matters - Brisbane got one of the best players in the comp by going down 11 places in the second round and giving up pick 55 (lol) and we got May and an eggplant.
We (Bris) did have to trade away our future first to GC to get pick 19 as part of the deal.

Of course at the moment that's working out as 19 (last year) to us to be part of the Neale trade, pick 19 this year to us (GC second rounder was part of the swap) and roughly pick 12-14 going to GC assuming we get knocked out in the first two weeks of the finals.

All in all an excellent piece of business.
 

Demon bhoy

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We (Bris) did have to trade away our future first to GC to get pick 19 as part of the deal.

Of course at the moment that's working out as 19 (last year) to us to be part of the Neale trade, pick 19 this year to us (GC second rounder was part of the swap) and roughly pick 12-14 going to GC assuming we get knocked out in the first two weeks of the finals.

All in all an excellent piece of business.
Sucked in we got kade Kolodjashnij
 

SugarHealey

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Exactly get your picks right especially your top 10/first round and you give yourself a big chance, jury’s is still out on ours from 14,15 at this stage but the needle is pointing the wrong way at this point, not what I would of said 6 months ago but all 4 are still under 100 games so fingers crossed the best is to come
The early picks need to come into a healthy club culture, and not be made too much of a fuss of early days. Arrogance can destroy a young talents attitude, to learn and grow, and things can go off rails.
Equally draftees can learn losing ways, in a poor club culture situation.

So kids need to come into a healthy focused club, striving to be successful in the right ways, with excellent assistant coaches and mentors. IMO.
Nice people, does not mean excellent teachers, but it helps.

Worldly people helps, and knowing how to impart their knowledge.
 

SugarHealey

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Does anyone think GC is worse that us during the Bailey/Neeld years?

Granted they have lost a few players but I don't think the no worse off.
No, not worse, not as bad as we got, but they were heading that direction.

But that club is in danger of learning the losing habit, instead of learning to work hard and Win. I suspect they were getting like that under the first coach, and its a long way back from that point as Rocket Eade found out.

Rocket followed Barassi in at the Swans, so he came in with some good players, who had exemplary credentials. like Paul Kelly.

Sometimes when young players have learned the wrong ways, and they are becoming the senior players (by age and attrition) of that club, then it's time to trade those young players Out. To shed the 'wrong ways' from within the club. even May could be seen this way. But these players offer as excellent trade options, to more mature clubs with healthy strong cultures.

Its a bit like lancing the boil. to expel the soft rot inside. Too many boils requiring lancing, means a large overhaul is required.

But the GCSuns need leadership injected/traded into that club. like Hodgy has done with Fagan, at the Lions. And to a lesser extent, Lewis with us.


They would do a lot worse than to get Jones and Lewis over there to help out.
 

SugarHealey

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The AFL will certainly take that view and give them the top two picks in the draft.
It's on-field Leadership that GCSuns needs, badly. Steady hand of a a mature leader/s, to show the way forward. A Priority pick won't do it.
They need a Jones, a Lewis, and a Bernie Vince playing on-field, to help lead them during games, and around the club.
 

Cannon82

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It's on-field Leadership that GCSuns needs, badly. Steady hand of a a mature leader/s, to show the way forward. A Priority pick won't do it.
They need a Jones, a Lewis, and a Bernie Vince playing on-field, to help lead them during games, and around the club.
No one suggested another top 2 pick will solve all GC's problems, but they're going to claim it will and argue the case fervently because its in their interest.

They just need a better list.
 
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