MFC Fans Only Non Dees AFL thread 2019 edition- Thank god its over. Tylenol NOW!

[Demon bhoy]

The early picks need to come into a healthy club culture, and not be made too much of a fuss of early days. Arrogance can destroy a young talents attitude, to learn and grow, and things can go off rails.
Equally draftees can learn losing ways, in a poor club culture situation.

So kids need to come into a healthy focused club, striving to be successful in the right ways, with excellent assistant coaches and mentors. IMO.
Nice people, does not mean excellent teachers, but it helps.

Worldly people helps, and knowing how to impart their knowledge.

Everything you’ve mentioned helps no doubt but the best environmental in the world doesn’t help if your players are no good, talent trumps all.

 

[SugarHealey]

No one suggested another top 2 pick will solve all GC's problems, but they're going to claim it will and argue the case fervently because its in their interest.

They just need a better list.

The Gold Coast Suns are saying that.

They don't need any more early picks than what they're getting down the bottom. All that does is, thin out the rest of the comps talent. Because they, like we did, burned many young talents, Re wasted talent, as failures. Because of poor culture and form, on-field.

They need leaders and mature players to guide and show the way forward. The ratio they have operated under since inception, is too highly swayed to younger players.

The AFL stuffed them up, the same as the Giants, with just too many kids drafted compared to mature players, on their lists. The AFL thought talent alone would heal all.
They have been shown to have been wrong, as we were.

 

[blitznu]

It's on-field Leadership that GCSuns needs, badly. Steady hand of a a mature leader/s, to show the way forward. A Priority pick won't do it.
They need a Jones, a Lewis, and a Bernie Vince playing on-field, to help lead them during games, and around the club.

Jones is a putrid ******* leader wouldnt make a difference what so ever. Vince wasnt an on field leader either. Like what a stupid set of players you chose as being any help for gold coast. The campaigners havent helped us at all

 

[SugarHealey]

Everything you’ve mentioned helps no doubt but the best environmental in the world doesn’t help if your players are no good, talent trumps all.

I'd say its about 50/50.
Lower talented recruits, but hard workers, can improve their skill levels, see Harmes.

Talent alone is useless, hard work alone without smarts and skill, is just as useless.
So we need all, or in equal balance.

This is the argument with Tracca, he has huge talent, and has creativity, but he is also lazy, and follows more then he leads. Or has done, so far in his career.

There comes a time when boys have to become men, in a team environment. They have to stand up and be counted. All of them. Some embrace it, some others hide from it, as much as they can get away with it.

Hunt has started this season to embrace this more.

 

[Cannon82]

The Gold Coast Suns are saying that.

They don't need any more early picks than what they're getting down the bottom. All that does is, thin out the rest of the comps talent. Because they, like we did, burned many young talents, Re wasted talent, as failures. Because of poor culture and form, on-field.

They need leaders and mature players to guide and show the way forward. The ratio they have operated under since inception, is too highly swayed to younger players.

The AFL stuffed them up, the same as the Giants, with just too many kids drafted compared to mature players, on their lists. The AFL thought talent alone would heal all.
They have been shown to have been wrong, as we were.

Of course they're saying it. They want a free pick at the top of the draft. Why wouldn't they say it? They don't give two shits about the talent spread over the rest of the comp, they're looking out for themselves.

I'm not sure why you find this hard to grasp.

 

[SugarHealey]

Jones is a putrid ******* leader wouldnt make a difference what so ever. Vince wasnt an on field leader either. Like what a stupid set of players you chose as being any help for gold coast. The campaigners havent helped us at all

You've got rocks in your head.
Jones is exactly what they need, a real hard trainer, and real hard worker, and a great example of commitment and dedication to being the best he can become.
Limited skills maybe, so what. It's the way he works his butt off for the club and team. Thats the example and the inspiration for those who follow him. An AFL player of over 250 AFL games.


That's leadership, especially for the kids/rookies/draftees.

 

[SugarHealey]

Of course they're saying it. They want a free pick at the top of the draft. Why wouldn't they say it? They don't give two s**ts about the talent spread over the rest of the comp, they're looking out for themselves.

I'm not sure why you find this hard to grasp.

So do you think they need one PP, or not.
I don't think that will help them at all.
In fact, I think its a waste. until they get more and better leadership in place on-field, so the young players have much more structure within that club, both on-field, and off-field.

Until that time, many more of their kids are likely to fail, under the lackings of that club.

 

[blitznu]

You've got rocks in your head.
Jones is exactly what they need, a real hard trainer, and real hard worker, and a great example of commitment and dedication to being the best he can become.
Limited skills maybe, so what. It's the way he works his butt off for the club and team. Thats the example and the inspiration for those who follow him. An AFL player of over 250 AFL games.


That's leadership, especially for the kids/rookies/draftees.

Yep definitely need a B grader at the top of his game whos going backwards. Who shows no on field leadership. Who sat there and laughed off us being s**t as a media beat up oh look 4 months later we are 16th. But ok ive got rocks in my head

 

[blitznu]

So do you think they need one PP, or not.
I don't think that will help them at all.
In fact, I think its a waste. until they get more and better leadership in place on-field, so the young players have much more structure within that club, both on-field, and off-field.

Until that time, many more of their kids are likely to fail, under the lackings of that club.

Exactly how most of our youth fail under our great leadership. A priority pick plus the same as they got last year with picking up mature aged players will help them. But yeah ok wont help at all

 

[Sylvia Saint]

Sorry but Geelong are one of the worst examples to bring up regarding draft picks. They've had one top 10 pick ever I'm pretty sure (Selwood, a good one) and have built sustained success around trades and later picks. Father sons too. Demon bhoy

Anyway I think Clarko made a good point about the Wingard trade recently. Judge it in 2027. If May can play like he did against Brisbane in multiple finals and/or plays 100+ good games in good teams, then the trade will look good. If he repeats 2019 over and over for a few years then retires, and Ben King becomes a star, we'll look silly. A lot to play out yet. The Tyson/Salem/Kelly deal looked great for us in the beginning, then bad about 12 months ago, now more of a win win (thanks Christian). Nothing is black and white.

 

[Topkent]

Should pass this on to Mahoney, maybe he could have told GC to go and find us a pick 14.

* you have been a little pussy bitch lately. Mays first few games have been excellent and Frost has looked 10x better with him in the side
Tell us how you would have gotten the deal done with the picks available then?

All you and your 2 mates do is s**t on deals without being able to provide an alternative scenario

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Sorry but Geelong are one of the worst examples to bring up regarding draft picks. They've had one top 10 pick ever I'm pretty sure (Selwood, a good one) and have built sustained success around trades and later picks. Father sons too. Demon bhoy

Anyway I think Clarko made a good point about the Wingard trade recently. Judge it in 2027. If May can play like he did against Brisbane in multiple finals and/or plays 100+ good games in good teams, then the trade will look good. If he repeats 2019 over and over for a few years then retires, and Ben King becomes a star, we'll look silly. A lot to play out yet. The Tyson/Salem/Kelly deal looked great for us in the beginning, then bad about 12 months ago, now more of a win win (thanks Christian). Nothing is black and white.

1999 - Joel Corey - Pick 8
2001 - Jimmy Bartel - Pick 8
2002 - Andrew Mackie - Pick 7
2003 - Kane Tenace - Pick 7

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

fu** you have been a little pussy bitch lately. Mays first few games have been excellent and Frost has looked 10x better with him in the side
Tell us how you would have gotten the deal done with the picks available then?

All you and your 2 mates do is s**t on deals without being able to provide an alternative scenario

Who's my second mate? I'm desperate please let know.

 

[Topkent]

Who's my second mate? I'm desperate please let know.

Demonboy and Stinger. Spent the whole season bitching about trades but haven't presented an alternative and you are still avoiding the question

 

[Topkent]

1999 - Joel Corey - Pick 8
2001 - Jimmy Bartel - Pick 8
2002 - Andrew Mackie - Pick 7
2003 - Kane Tenace - Pick 7

So 3 good players 20 years ago. Evidence.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Demonboy and Stinger. Spent the whole season bitching about trades but haven't presented an alternative and you are still avoiding the question

Do what St Kilda did and tell GC to find a third party to sweeten the deal if they want pick 6? Essendon found Sydney, GC could have wrangled something.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

So 3 good players 20 years ago. Evidence.

3 good players who won them three flags?

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

So 3 good players 20 years ago. Evidence.

Also I don't care but if SS wants to lie he should be ready to be held accountable by evidence.

 

[Topkent]

3 good players who won them three flags?

Right they had a mix of high picks, trades F/S and low picks and rookies just like every good list.

We have already had a good crack at the top end. It sounds like you have already given up on our high picks being successful

 

[Topkent]

Do what St Kilda did and tell GC to find a third party to sweeten the deal if they want pick 6? Essendon found Sydney, GC could have wrangled something.

That's an assumption based on 0 fact though. Maybe no other club is as stupid as the swans.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

That's an assumption based on 0 fact though. Maybe no other club is as stupid as the swans.

So in the absence of any stupidity from other clubs we just filled the void ourselves. I don't care that we traded away a top pick, I was more than happy to trade pick 2 for Tyson and I was desperate for us to pull off pick 2 and 14ish for Dangerfield in 2014. But name a single club that's gotten less face value for a trade of a top 5 pick than we did last year? We got reamed as we have done on most trades for the past few years.

 

[Topkent]

So in the absence of any stupidity from other clubs we just filled the void ourselves. I don't care that we traded away a top pick, I was more than happy to trade pick 2 for Tyson and I was desperate for us to pull off pick 2 and 14ish for Dangerfield in 2014. But name a single club that's gotten less face value for a trade of a top 5 pick than we did last year? We got reamed as we have done on most trades for the past few years.

How can I compare a deal that's less than a season old mate. If May is our player of the finals next year the deal completely changes.

May aswell say Weid is already a failed draft pick then as is Petracca and Brayshaw.

 

[blitznu]

How can I compare a deal that's less than a season old mate. If May is our player of the finals next year the deal completely changes.

May aswell say Weid is already a failed draft pick then as is Petracca and Brayshaw.

Salems won * all either add him to the list

 

[SugarHealey]

1999 - Joel Corey - Pick 8
2001 - Jimmy Bartel - Pick 8
2002 - Andrew Mackie - Pick 7
2003 - Kane Tenace - Pick 7

A helpful few there. add some father sons and voila.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

How can I compare a deal that's less than a season old mate. If May is our player of the finals next year the deal completely changes.

May aswell say Weid is already a failed draft pick then as is Petracca and Brayshaw.

Hence why I said face value