Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2:

Oppo Camp - Non-Eagles Discussion

Who gives a **** about finals anyway So overrated It’s all about the draft these days

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Tugga27]

The downgrading of Martin's suspension has flown under the radar due to Maynards case.

Had no intent for the pill, pretty much just punched a guy in the face and gets a week.
Disgraceful.

Players got a week for a sling tackle that caused no injury.

 

[Bacchus]

I'll agree to disagree on the rest of your post but just to clarify: it isn't in anyway Brayshaw's fault. I've already said that. I've never said it was his fault and can't remember seeing anyone else saying that. Saying that Maynard didn't know which direction Brayshaw would move in is not the same as saying it is Brayshaw's fault.

Melbourne is my second team and I really rate Brayshaw. Hope we get to see him back on the footy field soon.

I am not saying that you or anyone said that. But it was kind of implied in the discussion. The whole imaginary lane thing, Maynard stayed in his lane, Brayshaw moved out of his - therefore it is Brayshaw’s fault that the collision occurred because he moved out of his lane. Ugh!

Brayshaw had reason to believe that he would not be ironed out by someone running at him and jumping in the air at him.

 

[Seadog]

Jeff Gleeson 2018.
the argument put forward by AFL advocate Jeff Gleeson, who argued Naitanui had a duty of care to consider the disparity in size between himself and Amon.
St Kilda great Nick Riewoldt led the chorus of displeasure on Fox Footy’s AFL 360, saying the expectation on a player to make such a judgment in a split second is “completely unrealistic”

Jeff Gleeson 2023
Noting the split-second timeframe, chairman Gleeson said a footballer was obliged only to demonstrate reasonable care in his decision-making, not superhuman perfection.

F*#KH*#D

 

[Ishmael_]

Just gonna preface this by saying I'm not completely on board with the AFL and their concussion decisions coz I don't think it's black and white.

But Christian with his "easiest decision I've ever made" suspension on Naitanui for a tackle where he was supposed to take into account a weight differential which was unheard of at the time. Then to say Maynard is fine for knocking Brayshaw out cold is baffling.

It's not the message the AFL had been trying to send for the past 3 years. Even sling tackles that don't result in injuries are getting a week but this has no case?

Either Christian needs to be ****ed off or the AFL (unsurprisingly) is just making s**t up as they go along. Or likely both.

They are definitely making stuff up as they go and it's a shit show because they don't want to make the hard calls.

But in Christian's defence (yuck) if he had suspended him, it would be yet another example of them making it up as they go. Nobody has ever been rubbed out for something like that. It's a little bit similar to the Rioli one which was overturned and that was nowhere near finals.

It's bizarre that we have these little quasi judicial hearings with lawyers, but that's what we have. Lawyers argue the law as is, not the vibe, and Maynard's absolutely smoked the AFL last night.

If the AFL wants to change the law they can. They aren't passive observers here and their their faux outrage is a complete joke.

 

[Bender_]

They are definitely making stuff up as they go and it's a s**t show because they don't want to make the hard calls.

But in Christian's defence (yuck) if he had suspended him, it would be yet another example of them making it up as they go. Nobody has ever been rubbed out for something like that. It's a little bit similar to the Rioli one which was overturned and that was nowhere near finals.

It's bizarre that we have these little quasi judicial hearings with lawyers, but that's what we have. Lawyers argue the law as is, not the vibe, and Maynard's absolutely smoked the AFL last night.

If the AFL wants to change the law they can. They aren't passive observers here and their their faux outrage is a complete joke.

It's a bush league with kangaroo courts. Always will be.

 

[The Dodger]

"AFL counsel Andrew Woods contended Maynard could have changed his landing by either outstretching his arms or opening them up to embrace Brayshaw.

However, with evidence from Professor Michael Cole, Collingwood argued Maynard had no time – less than 400 milliseconds from the kick, and even less once it passed his fingertips – to make a conscious decision on a change of landing.

"Once airborne, Mr Maynard had no opportunity to avoid the collision," Cole said."

The bolded doesnt marry up for mine. The argument isn't he should've landed before Brayshaw or not made any contact at all. Its that he made the contact as harsh as possible by making himself into a ball. In the time he made himself a ball he couldve outstretched his arms. He made a movement mid air and he chose the one that would have the most impact.

I think this is replicable in that he didn't get his hand to the footy so now the lateness of your football act isn't taken into account. He was late trying to "football act" and cleaned someone up. If you are late/early to a marking contest and the ball a few meters away and you clean someone up. Is that still a football act that isn't reportable?

I'm thinking stuff like Woosha on Modra. Where you can recklessely turn side on leading with the shoulder make yourself a ball going back with the flight into a leading player who is opened up to mark the ball and you can be late and not touch the footy but you were football act'ing. How does that play out.

To me football act is fine but do it late and concuss someone you wear those consequences. At least that's what I thought the AFL were trying to get to.

 

[Bender_]

4 hundred milliseconds!

"If we break it down to a smaller unit of time, we can trick them into thinking it's shorter than it actually is!"

 

[GlennTwenty]

I am not saying that you or anyone said that. But it was kind of implied in the discussion. The whole imaginary lane thing, Maynard stayed in his lane, Brayshaw moved out of his - therefore it is Brayshaw’s fault that the collision occurred because he moved out of his lane. Ugh!

Brayshaw had reason to believe that he would not be ironed out by someone running at him and jumping in the air at him.

Collingwood/Maynard annoy me how they phrase things with their "footy act" and "moved out of his lane" rubbish. I agree with that.

 

[Ishmael_]

Jeff Gleeson 2018.
the argument put forward by AFL advocate Jeff Gleeson, who argued Naitanui had a duty of care to consider the disparity in size between himself and Amon.
St Kilda great Nick Riewoldt led the chorus of displeasure on Fox Footy’s AFL 360, saying the expectation on a player to make such a judgment in a split second is “completely unrealistic”

Jeff Gleeson 2023
Noting the split-second timeframe, chairman Gleeson said a footballer was obliged only to demonstrate reasonable care in his decision-making, not superhuman perfection.

F*#KH*#D

I know this seems hypocritical but it's not.

The first quote is from when Gleeson was representing the AFL so he's arguing in the AFL's interests.

The second is in his role as 'Chairman' which I gather is a bit like a judge. He doesn't make the decisions but can point out things like 'that's not how the law works' and he summarises the tribunal jury's decision.

It's confusing and this whole quasi judicial thing is a mess! But the AFL is worried about the game being tied up in actual courts.

 

[GlennTwenty]

4 hundred milliseconds!

"If we break it down to a smaller unit of time, we can trick them into thinking it's shorter than it actually is!"

Yep, 400,000,000 nanoseconds should be plenty...

 

[Ishmael_]

4 hundred milliseconds!

"If we break it down to a smaller unit of time, we can trick them into thinking it's shorter than it actually is!"

I'm not proud, but somewhere between following this dumb thing and writing another shit post in this thread, I turned to my partner and was like, 'two hundred milliseconds, that's ages, that's like 2 seconds!'

Which was greeted by a humbling look of absolute disgust, pity and bewilderment.

 

[Tugga27]

Fair to say Shaun Smith isn't that happy with the result.

I wonder if anyone in the media will have the minerals to slam Eddie McChins after his tasteless video.

Former Melbourne star Shaun Smith slams AFL after Brayden Maynard

4

Brayden Maynard

Age

29

Ht

189cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.6

5star

MG

327.8

4star

D

20.7

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.0

4star

MG

417.4

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

MG

205.8

4star

cleared at the tribunal for clash with Angus Brayshaw

10

Angus Brayshaw

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.3

5star

MG

233.5

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

7.8

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.2

4star

MG

233.5

4star

D

11.4

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

5.6

5star

A former Melbourne star who was left “totally and permanently disabled” from brain injuries acquired during his playing career has lashed the AFL after Brayden Maynard

4

Brayden Maynard

Age

29

Ht

189cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.6

5star

MG

327.8

4star

D

20.7

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.0

4star

MG

417.4

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

MG

205.8

4star

was set free by the tribunal on Tuesday night.

Shaun Smith – who was awarded a landmark $1.4 million insurance payout in 2020 and whose son, Joel, is teammates with Angus Brayshaw

10

Angus Brayshaw

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

4.3

5star

MG

233.5

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

7.8

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.2

4star

MG

233.5

4star

D

11.4

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

5.6

5star

at the Demons – was left seething by the not-guilty verdict as ex-Collingwood president Eddie McGuire openly celebrated that “justice has been done”.

Brayshaw, 27, spent two minutes unconscious after he was knocked out by Maynard during last week’s qualifying final at the MCG.

Smith posted on Facebook: “AFL you are an embarrassment and an absolute joke!!!!”

“Absolutely disgusting …. The AFL are a disgusting organisation,” Smith, 54, wrote.

Smith replied to one commenter defending the decision: “I’m sure you would say the same thing if it was your son…”

“This thug KOs (knocks out) someone, potentially ending their career, and he gets off.”

 

[Seadog]

I know this seems hypocritical but it's not.

The first quote is from when Gleeson was representing the AFL so he's arguing in the AFL's interests.

The second is in his role as 'Chairman' which I gather is a bit like a judge. He doesn't make the decisions but can point out things like 'that's not how the law works' and he summarises the tribunal jury's decision.

It's confusing and this whole quasi judicial thing is a mess! But the AFL is worried about the game being tied up in actual courts.

I know he is doing different jobs in those cases but the fact he uses opposing opinions only reinforces what a crock of shite the whole system is. Surely coincidence he uses one opinion to nail a non Vic team and the opposing opinion to give a free pass to a Vic team.

 

[Bender_]

I'm not proud, but somewhere between following this dumb thing and writing another s**t post in this thread, I turned to my partner and was like, 'two hundred milliseconds, that's ages, that's like 2 seconds!'

Which was greeted by a humbling look of absolute disgust, pity and bewilderment.

It's is though in sport. 4 seconds is ****ing heaps of time.

 

[Dazzler9]

It's is though in sport. 4 seconds is ******* heaps of time.

Lol, not sure if you're joking on that one.

 

[Bender_]

Lol, not sure if you're joking on that one.

You don't think it's a lot of time in a sporting sense?

 

[GlennTwenty]

You don't think it's a lot of time in a sporting sense?

Its about 10 times as much as 400 milliseconds

 

[The Dodger]

"The clear message we're giving to clubs and players is that if you contest the ball and you're late and you hit the opposition player in the head with a bump, you're going to be in trouble."

The changes to interpretation extend on the 'contesting the ball' exemption penned ahead of the 2021 season.

Following the new understanding, players will be penalised for all instances of late high contact, regardless of whether they were contesting the ball.

"In most instances there is a player who is late in that contest, and if you're late and hit a player in the head you're going to be in trouble," Scott added.

From Brad Scott about the new changes to the AFL tribunal in 2022.
Going to have to re-write one to include "footy act".

 

[Dazzler9]

You don't think it's a lot of time in a sporting sense?

4 seconds is loads.

0.4 secs, less so.

 

[Bender_]

4 seconds is loads.

0.4 secs, less so.

Ah yes, I'm being a moron.

Put me on the MRP!

 

[ZergMinion]

There's a decent chance this was a genuine accident. .4 of a second isn't enough time to react for most human beings and would be pushing it for elite athletes. Brayshaw clearly wasn't expecting to cop a flying Maynard to the face and he was looking in his direction at the time of the incident. Proving Maynard intended harm to Brayshaw when he jumped to attempt a spoil would have been pretty much impossible.

Only way forward for the AFL is to make a rule change that enforces people being suspended for this kind if accident, which will have the knock on effect of players not leaping to attempt a spoil when running straight at an opponent.

 

[Bender_]

I'm not proud, but somewhere between following this dumb thing and writing another s**t post in this thread, I turned to my partner and was like, 'two hundred milliseconds, that's ages, that's like 2 seconds!'

Which was greeted by a humbling look of absolute disgust, pity and bewilderment.

So you're not alone there mate!

 

[The Dodger]

With regards to timing. I find it funny that in a sport like basketball where people are contesting 3 pointers multiple times per game, and running at people full tilt with milliseconds reaction time that there arent more concussions on court becasue of it. And believe me shooters be crafty and are trying to get hit or "moving into lanes" as it were yet no concussions to multiple of these examples every game.

 

[Keys]

Did Maynard intentionally crash into Brayshaw? No

Did Maynard care if he crashed into Brayshaw? Also no

And that’s the crux of this and why I expect the AFL to amend the rules this off season

It was Maynard’s decision to jump whilst running toward Brayshaw at pace that caused the contact and by jumping he effectively lost the ability to control the outcome when he landed

His action whilst not intending to cause harm, lacked the care now asked of players to avoid the possibility of harm to their opponent

He didn’t know he would hit Brayshaw but nor do I think he cared if he did which is why he should have been suspended

 

[ZergMinion]

Ah yes, I'm being a moron.

Put me on the MRP!

What I'm truly impressed by is that you would have watched the incident and the replay in real time more than once, you know how long 4 seconds is, and your brain never went "Hang on...what's wrong with this picture?"