Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XIV

[eth-dog]

Willy’s shooting for goal at the end killed them.

Yep. Wheeler missing was surprising

 

[Macca18]

There’s no team… in the history of any sport worldwide… at any level…

That has had more luck than the Richmond VFL side in 2019 in games throughout the whole season when it has been a close finish.

Completely summed up in the final 3 minutes of that game. I dare anyone to find me a better example of pure ars* than that.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

Really? Why wouldn’t they let a former premiership player and club legend present to the Tigers?

Apparently the clubs nominate who will present the cup, who knows maybe Tiges will also nominate him.

Giants CEO nominated Sheedy to present the cup to GWS should they win.

 

[Cold Sober]

That’s the old final eight system (1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5) though, not the current one.

The current system is better than that one.

Sure I said the PRESENT system

 

[Doss]

Sure I said the PRESENT system

Yes, but the current system doesn't have all higher place finishers getting a home final (1, 2, 5 and 6 do). The old system did.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Who he played for, for a long time.. a long time ago

Roger Dean just presented the VFL cup, he retired before Sheeds. Hopefully Tiges see the light

 

[ILikeCheese]

Anyone know why we passed on Picket in the mid season draft?
Richmond have been bold taking on Stack and Picket and it’s paid off big time. Maybe along with Richardson, Rutten and Caracella we should be looking at their recruitment team...seem to be well ahead of the game compared to us...

 

[nylexbandit]

Anyone know why we passed on Picket in the mid season draft?
Richmond have been bold taking on Stack and Picket and it’s paid off big time. Maybe along with Richardson, Rutten and Caracella we should be looking at their recruitment team...seem to be well ahead of the game compared to us...

When you're up the top with the depth they have, they can afford to take a few flyers on the high risk high reward players

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I felt really sad about all the booing the Collingwood supporters did to the umpires and champions of GWS, especially after being told off in April.

 

[pepsi]

I felt really sad about all the booing the Collingwood supporters did to the umpires and champions of GWS, especially after being told off in April.

It's ok they aren't champions of the game, so they are allowed to be booed!

 

[Maddogm]

I wish they did something like the cricket reviews where there are clear criteria and mechanisms for checking each criteria, and if all bar one of the criteria say 'out' but one is dubious then it goes to umpire's call. It makes it a lot more transparent, only overturning the howlers rather than the dicey ones.

I also don't think they need to review every decision (other than for training purposes). Do like the cricket, give the teams two reviews each plus whatever the umpires decide they need a review for themselves (perhaps C/VC only can call for a review). If no one chooses to ask for a review when they have the opportunity then they have agreed by default with the umpire's call.

The system they are trying to implement/copy is sound, they're just doing a half arsed job of doing it. There's nothing wrong with reviewing every goal because otherwise you end up you end with them not reviewing one that needed to be. The NHL system that this is based on can handle 12 games simultaneously. What they are doing is going in understaffed, learning a new system during finals and focusing on non urgent things like rushing through match review decisions - note incidents sure but decisions don't need to made during the game.

 

[ghostdog]

I wad a bit bemused about the coaches votes in the Adelaide game last night. We systematically dismantled them away from home, yet only Zack features in the votes. Bit of a joke that.

 

[dnbassador]

I wad a bit bemused about the coaches votes in the Adelaide game last night. We systematically dismantled them away from home, yet only Zack features in the votes. Bit of a joke that.

 

[boncer34]

I wad a bit bemused about the coaches votes in the Adelaide game last night. We systematically dismantled them away from home, yet only Zack features in the votes. Bit of a joke that.

In the 2nd half we did. In the first half we were average.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Don’t get all this Giants have done it tough bs that Gil has just reiterated on SEN. Yes no doubt they’ve played well last few weeks but I’m talking about the building of the club.

Gil says really well done in 8 years but this team was originally built for inevitable success by being given too many high picks. Even Chris Pelchen who was part of the initial sub committee to decide on picks they should receive, has admitted they were too generous.

Ok all that’s water under the bridge but stop going on about how they’ve lost so many players, because those over surplus players were traded for very high picks. Treloar and Shiel alone gave them 4 first rounders for the loss of two seconds.

Success in first dozen years (at least making a gf) was inevitable from day 1

 

[boncer34]

Don’t get all this Giants have done it tough bs that Gil has just reiterated on SEN. Yes no doubt they’ve played well last few weeks but I’m talking about the building of the club.

Gil says really well done in 8 years but this team was originally built for inevitable success by being given too many high picks. Even Chris Pelchen who was part of the initial sub committee to decide on picks they should receive, has admitted they were too generous.

Ok all that’s water under the bridge but stop going on about how they’ve lost so many players, because those over surplus players were traded for very high picks. Treloar and Shiel alone gave them 4 first rounders for the loss of two seconds.

Success in first dozen years (at least making a gf) was inevitable from day 1

If it's inevitable explain the Suns.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

If it's inevitable explain the Suns.

Giants were given more than the Suns. Exodus was also far worse. It would be like Coniglio, Cameron and Kelly all leaving as well. Plus yes Suns have made more mistakes but how does that make the over supply of picks an issue?

 

[boncer34]

Giants were given more than the Suns. Exodus was also far worse. It would be like Coniglio, Cameron and Kelly all leaving as well. Plus yes Suns have made more mistakes but how does that make the over supply of picks an issue?

Not substantially more.

Exodus being worse is purely unlucky or a sign the Giants are far better run than the Suns?

All I was saying was if giving them a s**t ton of picks meant success was inevitable then explain the Suns. Reality is yes the Giants got a leg up but they also planned and worked bloody hard to put the squad together. Success was certainly not inevitable or the Suns would be playing them this weekend.

 

[owen87]

Not substantially more.

Exodus being worse is purely unlucky or a sign the Giants are far better run than the Suns?

All I was saying was if giving them a s**t ton of picks meant success was inevitable then explain the Suns. Reality is yes the Giants got a leg up but they also planned and worked bloody hard to put the squad together. Success was certainly not inevitable or the Suns would be playing them this weekend.

There was an article earlier this year where they did an actual comparison and GWS did get significantly more concessions than the Suns, they also made better choices, got value for traded players and were better run.

I don't think anyone looks at what GCS did when they started up and thought "geez that was a good choice" whereas people regularly say Phil Davis was a great player to have chased on limited exposed form, someone like Mumford in the early years suited them perfectly too, his physicality helping to protect the young kids. They've also drafted a lot better around picking workhorses and not just flankers the way GCS did.

 

[Drummer_19]

You still have to make whatever advantages you have work. The Giants initial list management strategy and poaching of high end guys from other clubs (Phil Davis, Cal Ward) who weren't just at the tail end of their career getting a paycheck and could grow with the younger guys that stuck around and didn't leave for whatever reason, homesickness, money, getting squeezed out was really valuable in providing a foundation to build off. Undoubtably tho the ability to keep replenishing high first round picks over and over is insanely valuable but I don't think they could have really been able to get max value out of that without their initial list management decisions providing such a solid foundation.

Gold Coast didn't (besides Ablett) seem to put much emphasis on bringing in guys in that age bracket so surround their young talent with and bring mentor roles, build a culture. I could be remembering but it seemed like GC's poaching mostly consisted of journeyman like Campbell Brown who were looking for one last bit of money and to party of the gold coast on the weekends. Also just poor team building in general it seems, way too many raw prospects/small framed players there at one time.

 

[Doss]

Harbrow and Rischitelli were decent pick ups for the Suns.

 

[DapperJong]

You still have to make whatever advantages you have work. The Giants initial list management strategy and poaching of high end guys from other clubs (Phil Davis, Cal Ward) who weren't just at the tail end of their career getting a paycheck and could grow with the younger guys that stuck around and didn't leave for whatever reason, homesickness, money, getting squeezed out was really valuable in providing a foundation to build off. Undoubtably tho the ability to keep replenishing high first round picks over and over is insanely valuable but I don't think they could have really been able to get max value out of that without their initial list management decisions providing such a solid foundation.

Gold Coast didn't (besides Ablett) seem to put much emphasis on bringing in guys in that age bracket so surround their young talent with and bring mentor roles, build a culture. I could be remembering but it seemed like GC's poaching mostly consisted of journeyman like Campbell Brown who were looking for one last bit of money and to party of the gold coast on the weekends. Also just poor team building in general it seems, way too many raw prospects/small framed players there at one time.

I would argue getting Ablett was their biggest mistake.

 

[Drummer_19]

I would argue getting Ablett was their biggest mistake.

Maybe, but I would find it hard to put much blame onto attracting one of, if not the best player of all time in his prime to your club to start it off. Hindsight probably says he wasn't really, despite how good he is, a good leader and you could have used the money you gave him, chopped it up and gotten multiple good players to build a deeper list but eh, like I said it's kind of hard at the time to be like "oh nah, no thank you Gary".

 

[boncer34]

TheGreatBarryB its not a great one because he goes "GWS got bigger salary cap concessions" and "GWS got a bigger list" but doesn't actually concede there is a correlation between the 2.

They got larger and longer salary cap space because of the extra space. In fact their average per player would have been less would it not?

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Not substantially more.

The Suns were given tin sheds and league-low off-field spending. The Giants were set up seriously well in comparison.

They also made far better decisions in staffing and initial recruitment, but that's on the club as much as the league.