Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XIV

[JayJ20]

Plenty of people didn't like Goodes by the time the booing really hit its peak, and not because of his race, and it's pretty egotistical to assume you know the motivations behind thousands of people you've never met, bizarre level of arrogance really. Introduce some nuance into your thinking, obviously there were racists among the bunch, but Eddie Betts was vilified numerous times and he was never booed en masse, there were racism incidents involving Majak Daw

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Majak Daw

Age

33

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195cm

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97kg

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Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

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5.8

3star

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2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

, Lance Franklin and Nic Naitanui around the same era. None of whom were booed en masse, and there's a reason for that. By the time the incident with the Collingwood girl came about, people already didn't like Goodes, and when the booing started to move from Collingwood only to leaguewide 2 years later against Carlton when he did the war cry ceremony onfield, people jumped on the bandwagon for a whole number of reasons.
There's no doubt the booing went way too far, and I initially wasn't too worried about it, until it became obvious that it was affecting him to such a heavy degree. But booing is not inherently racist, if the whole crowd were throwing bananas all game(Like one of the Eddie Betts incidents) you'd have no one disagreeing, that would clearly be racist.

As someone pointed out earlier Jobe Watson was booed for an entire match, and we know the reason for that had nothing to do with race, it was because of the interview regarding the drug scandal. So if a white man can be booed for reasons that have nothing to do with race, why can't a black man be booed?

I feel sorry for you guys who feel the need to attribute these awful motivations to thousands of people you don't know, have some humility and understand you can't lump thousands of people into 1 category so simply, you arrogant, virtue signaling, fart sniffing pricks.

Jobe Watson was booed for one game, not every game week in and week out.
If anything, you'd think admitting to taking what people believed to be PEDs on national television would be a reason for relentless booing. Let's not start equating the two situations.

Also, why is it that those two incidents sparked the mass booing? Let's not pretend it had nothing to do with race.

 

[IHurley]

Not sure certain people in his footy team means all white people champ. If he did mean all white people then yes, but that didn't happen did it? Care to stick to reality?

Maybe you should try reading the article. He was referring to virtually the entire Australian media (which arguably could be interpreted as a proxy for the Australian public). To be fair, I'm not about to die in a ditch for journalists but calling them all "white supremacists" is indeed a form of psychosis.

 

[DapperJong]

He was referring to the entire Australian media (which arguably could be interpreted as a proxy for the Australian public).

See you're making s**t up. And lol mate, he was clearly using symbolism. Do you think he actually thinks the media are all Klan members? He hasn't said that at all. You even gave an example of systemic oppression with your house prices and you weren't even aware of it.

 

[84859300]

You don't want to be lumped in with 48k other people? Stop booing.

Don't tell me how to support at the footy - you don't know me

Based on your thinking,agreeing of the lumping of groups together, should I instantly assume you support Trump and rate all of his values and actions in the highest regards?

See how this works?

I personally hate the stigma that surrounds the situation, but I wouldn't react kindly to someone even jokingly suggest I was a racist for booing, face to face. I feel strongly about the instant appropriation in this regard and have said it before. I have diverse friends who would come out and bat for me in an instant if they were there also.

I know the result of the booing and even so, I freely admit that I booed... and provided reason on why I did. yet, I'm stiil portrayed as a racist in your eyes.

 

[IHurley]

See you're making sh*t up. And lol mate, he was clearly using symbolism. Do you think he actually thinks the media are all Klan members? He hasn't said that at all. .

Astonishing.

I'm quoting him directly and your response is to say I'm "making sh*t up" because, ummm, I'm quoting *exactly* what he said!!!

But that's ok. Going by your "logic" I can say that everybody who ever said anything mean to this flog didn't really mean it so the entire article is moot. Except me. I mean it.

"You even gave an example of systemic oppression with your house prices and you weren't even aware of it"

Well that's me not getting any sleep tonight.

 

[DapperJong]

I'm quoting him directly and your response is to say I'm "making sh*t up" because, ummm, I'm quoting *exactly* what he said!!!

I know, we have established you don't understand the quote, so in turn, I now understand why you are upset.

Mutual understanding is great.

 

[IHurley]

I know, we have established you don't understand the quote, so in turn, I now understand why you are upset.

Mutual understanding is great.

Great. We both accept that all the times people called Lumumba a "chimp" they didn't mean it literally so there's no reason for him to complain about it.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Don't tell me how to support at the footy - you don't know me

Based on your thinking,agreeing of the lumping of groups together, should I instantly assume you support Trump and rate all of his values and actions in the highest regards?

See how this works?

I personally hate the stigma that surrounds the situation, but I wouldn't react kindly to someone even jokingly suggest I was a racist for booing, face to face. I feel strongly about the instant appropriation in this regard and have said it before. I have diverse friends who would come out and bat for me in an instant if they were there also.

I know the result of the booing and even so, I freely admit that I booed... and provided reason on why I did. yet, I'm stiil portrayed as a racist in your eyes.

I am not telling you what to do - unless you are still booing Adam Goodes which would be pretty weird - and yeah something you probably should stop.

Nor did I say you are a racist at any point. How could I know? So no need to challenge me to a fist fight.

But as I said in a much longer fashion - I believe the overall way in which Goodes was booed brutally and relentlessly had a racist element. Do you disagree with that.. ie think that across the crowds there was no racist element?

You were the one saying you didn't want to be associated with racism. There would have been an easy way to avoid being associated - you could have stopped booing.

 

[Nifft]

I've only ever booed the umpires...

 

[boncer34]

I've only ever booed the umpires...

Hey!

 

[84859300]

You were the one saying you didn't want to be associated with racism. There would have been an easy way to avoid being associated - you could have stopped booing.

Last one - because this has gone on way too long - again, why should the booing be specifically seen as racist?

I told you I wasn't booing because of the colour of his skin... but you and many others have assumed and keep telling me that it was. "You don't know that your booing was actually racist, because you're stupid". An oldy but a goody is: to assume makes an Ass out of U and Me

Don't assume people who were booing was because of race - if you still feel that way - you could always stop assuming

 

[TheGrizz]

Great. We both accept that all the times people called Lumumba a "chimp" they didn't mean it literally so there's no reason for him to complain about it.

Uh, no.
Booing is one thing, calling a black man a chimp clearly crosses a line.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Last one - because this has gone on way too long - again, why should the booing be specifically seen as racist?

I told you I wasn't booing because of the colour of his skin... but you and many others have assumed and keep telling me that it was. "You don't know that your booing was actually racist, because you're stupid". An oldy but a goody is: to assume makes an Ass out of U and Me

Don't assume people who were booing was because of race - if you still feel that way - you could always stop assuming

You're not responding to anything actually being said. You've gone into a defensive spin out where it's just a conversation with yourself.

Try answering my questions. I asked do you think some of the motivation for some of the booing by some people was racially driven ? If you can't answer that yes or no you're right, it's the end. You're having a go at me about assumptions. Are you assuming noone booed because of race?

 

[ant555]

Last one - because this has gone on way too long - again, why should the booing be specifically seen as racist?

I told you I wasn't booing because of the colour of his skin... but you and many others have assumed and keep telling me that it was. "You don't know that your booing was actually racist, because you're stupid". An oldy but a goody is: to assume makes an Ass out of U and Me

Don't assume people who were booing was because of race - if you still feel that way - you could always stop assuming

The real question is regardless of race if you know something has effected someone in the way it did should you not concede it was the wrong thing to do even if that was not even close to your intention ?

 

[fairbump_playon]

The real question is regardless of race if you know something has effected someone in the way it did should you not concede it was the wrong thing to do even if that was not even close to your intention ?

exactly

 

[ant555]

You're not responding to anything actually being said. You've gone into a defensive spin out where it's just a conversation with yourself.

Try answering my questions. I asked do you think some of the motivation for some of the booing by some people was racially driven ? If you can't answer that yes or no you're right, it's the end. You're having a go at me about assumptions. Are you assuming noone booed because of race?

There certainly was some element of racism hidden amongst those who where saying no there was not. There where a lot of people uncomfortable with his comments as Australian of the year. There is absolutely no doubt about that. One issue with racism is a lot of the time it can not even be hate but a lack of education and understanding.
I consider myself very lucky. I have been able to walk through life and not had to deal with some people treating me as an outcast in my own country or being an outcast because I am not white. I have not had to deal with doors / opportunities being shut. My cousin and best mate has Aboriginal and white heritage and some of the stuff I have seen him have to deal with makes me sad and very angry.

 

[IHurley]

Uh, no.
Booing is one thing, calling a black man a chimp clearly crosses a line.

You need to read the conversation. Or not. But you're a long way off the track.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Has anyone mentioned the afls culpability in the goodes affair yet? Come out and tell people not to boo someone because it's not nice/unfair/racist and see what happens whether it's goodes or lynch or jobe or anyone else. Then you get the whole don't tell me what to do campaigner I paid my money I'll boo whoever I like group joining in too which is what happened.

I think this played a much bigger role than many realise. The campaign by the media and AFL industry to stop the booing and denigrate the booers was seen as a total affront to a lot of people. It's kind of similar in a way to the Hillary Clinton "deplorables" comment.

 

[Westlo]

In other news Buckley is single again rumours of him cheating have surfaced

Hope Ned Guy isn't in charge of his divorce proceedings.

On a happier note I still think the West Coast V Sydney, Judd vs Goodes battles were some of the best of the past two decades.

I think there was a stretch of 8 games where it was neck and neck and those two were just incredible.

Nothing comes close to those games in recent memory, hated the way Sydney played back then but West Coast brought the best out of them.

 

[84859300]

You're not responding to anything actually being said. You've gone into a defensive spin out where it's just a conversation with yourself.

Try answering my questions. I asked do you think some of the motivation for some of the booing by some people was racially driven ? If you can't answer that yes or no you're right, it's the end. You're having a go at me about assumptions. Are you assuming noone booed because of race?

Of course I have answered your quetions - you're choosing not to read it as such.

As I said - this has gone on too long; but here you go.

* Did I think the booing of Goodes had a racial undertone?

Personally, I didn't give a fat rat's toss what anyone else was boing for - it didn't influence me.

IF it had a racist undertone, you would have to question why wasn't every other player of colour booed in the same fashion? The Muslims. The Asians. The Irish. Saying Goodes was booed because of racism is a floored argument, when it wasn't comp wide. You want comp wide racism, look at the EPL wher ethey throw bananas, or world football where a ref calls a competitor a Negro and it stops the highest club level game.

* Have you hated any other players who had the same journey? Have you relentlessly booed them all?

I've booed Ballantyne. I've booed Milne. They wern't of colour - can't see how this benefits your point but there you go. Did they have the same journey? When they got booed, they palyed on and didn't raise is as affecting their career - more as a driver. Milne would chirp back. Ballantyne would kick goals. I don't have books, Australian of the Year speaches or 100 articles from them saying they were affected by it so I can't say.

* What's the odds that it's just pure coincidence that Goodes copped it?

This question doesn't affect me - I know why I booed and have told you three times.

* When it comes to the Goodes booing everyone is so ******* defensive.

I have to be - because I have people like you saying "c'mon, just admit that your booing was just a little racist" to meet your impression. I'm not going to do that, because it's just not true.

* Open your mind and just ask could our country’s cultural attitude to black people have made the booing worse, louder, longer? Do you reckon it might have - or not?

You're asking me to explain to you on what my thought are for generational genocide, removal of babies, re-education, religion, removal from voting? These are all wrongs. Coming from the 1990's to the 2000 & 2010's the world has changed so much with Sorry, Gay Marriage, #metoo - Ausxtrlains have been more educated in the acceptance of all aspects. I feel that the Australian people have welcomed these scenarios and taken them on board enthusiatically.

Now you're telling me that for 2 hours on a Saturday that there were the same people who were out ther booing based on race. I don't know what the guy next to me was booing for, let alone the guy at the other end of the ground. I didn't ask them.

I agree that there are elements of the public that remian in the latter mould. Look at Eddie and the Ape comment. In regards to your cultural attitute, Australia is in a much better position to make decisions on that in 2000 than what they were in 1970. What each individual's interpretation on these; your guess is as good as mine.

* I don’t buy for a second the idea that everyone knows themselves that well.

This is just a self centered, bullshit comment. Everyone doesn't know themselves... ******* please. From what I've read and liked of your posts, you're better than that

 

[fairbump_playon]

Of course I have answered your quetions - you're choosing not to read it as such.

As I said - this has gone on too long; but here you go.

* Did I think the booing of Goodes had a racial undertone?

Personally, I didn't give a fat rat's toss what anyone else was boing for - it didn't influence me.

IF it had a racist undertone, you would have to question why wasn't every other player of colour booed in the same fashion? The Muslims. The Asians. The Irish. Saying Goodes was booed because of racism is a floored argument, when it wasn't comp wide. You want comp wide racism, look at the EPL wher ethey throw bananas, or world football where a ref calls a competitor a Negro and it stops the highest club level game.

* Have you hated any other players who had the same journey? Have you relentlessly booed them all?

I've booed Ballantyne. I've booed Milne. They wern't of colour - can't see how this benefits your point but there you go. Did they have the same journey? When they got booed, they palyed on and didn't raise is as affecting their career - more as a driver. Milne would chirp back. Ballantyne would kick goals. I don't have books, Australian of the Year speaches or 100 articles from them saying they were affected by it so I can't say.

* What's the odds that it's just pure coincidence that Goodes copped it?

This question doesn't affect me - I know why I booed and have told you three times.

* When it comes to the Goodes booing everyone is so ******* defensive.

I have to be - because I have people like you saying "c'mon, just admit that your booing was just a little racist" to meet your impression. I'm not going to do that, because it's just not true.

* Open your mind and just ask could our country’s cultural attitude to black people have made the booing worse, louder, longer? Do you reckon it might have - or not?

You're asking me to explain to you on what my thought are for generational genocide, removal of babies, re-education, religion, removal from voting? These are all wrongs. Coming from the 1990's to the 2000 & 2010's the world has changed so much with Sorry, Gay Marriage, #metoo - Ausxtrlains have been more educated in the acceptance of all aspects. I feel that the Australian people have welcomed these scenarios and taken them on board enthusiatically.

Now you're telling me that for 2 hours on a Saturday that there were the same people who were out ther booing based on race. I don't know what the guy next to me was booing for, let alone the guy at the other end of the ground. I didn't ask them.

I agree that there are elements of the public that remian in the latter mould. Look at Eddie and the Ape comment. In regards to your cultural attitute, Australia is in a much better position to make decisions on that in 2000 than what they were in 1970. What each individual's interpretation on these; your guess is as good as mine.

* I don’t buy for a second the idea that everyone knows themselves that well.

This is just a self centered, bullshit comment. Everyone doesn't know themselves... ******* please. From what I've read and liked of your posts, you're better than that

I know this is an emotive issue. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the proper dialogue.

I do actually believe that we don't really know ourselves and our motivations that well. I know I don't and regularly get surprised by things I say or do or feel.

We do see this different ways but it probably wouldn't be as different if we were talking to each other. I'll look forward to seeing you next time we're talking about something else... probably footy

 

[84859300]

I know this is an emotive issue. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate the proper dialogue.

I do actually believe that we don't really know ourselves and our motivations that well. I know I don't and regularly get surprised by things I say or do or feel.

We so see this different ways but itprobably wouldn't be as different if we were talking to each other. I'll look forward to seeing you next time we're talking about something else... probably footy

Good job - firm handshakes

 

[Tas]

Goodes was one of my favourite non-North players and I loved watching him play, even though he ALWAYS saved some of his best footy against my mob. I never booed him, never booed other players, I rarely got overly emotional at the footy save for big games.

I do think there was a racist element that booed Goodes and he was obviously receiving racist comments, even from the Collingwood Football Club president so it is not hard to imagine bogans would be racially motivated. However, I think it would be a huge stretch to imagine the whole crowd which was booing was motivated by racism. Even if my own motive was not about racism and had I been booing, if someone said they felt it was racially influenced and it was upsetting them then that should be enough for anyone to stop doing it imo. I was saddened that people didn't stop and he went out that way.

However, I think there was a whole lot of lack of introspection about what was going on. I think there were a number of things going on over a period of time, he had been embroiled in a number of dubious on-field incidents, like sliding into players with his boots up, which was very dangerous and the AFL were reluctant to discipline him and there was this perceived view of double standards for certain players which irritated a lot of supporters, particularly for Swans players who had a habit of dodging suspension. He played for what 14 years and he was much beloved by loyal and opposition players alike for his ability because he was an amazing footballer. But his behaviour and his attitude changed towards the end of his career.

Then he decided to be more political and it is fine if that is something you want to do but you are going to get negative feedback by people who want sport to be just sport and to have politics out of it as much as humanly possible, for a lot of people it is an escape for them from the drudgery of reality and they do not want that druggery dragged into their favourite sport.

Then the AFL and media said people weren't allowed to boo him. You were allowed to boo anyone else you liked but you couldn't boo this one man irrespective what he does on the field. That was always going to make people who had no interest in booing him to do so as a middle finger to the AFL who had the audacity to tell people how to act or tell them they were doing it because they are racist. It was always going to draw out the worst of people. It was always going to have the opposite effect. This fire was burning and then the AFL and media came out of their ivory tower and just threw petrol on that fire. The audacity and hubris to tell people why it is they are doing something when they do not know each individual's motivation. I think the vast majority in the end were booing Gil more than they were booing Goodes.

I still think it was totally unacceptable the racist comments people made to him and I think people should have stopped boing when it was evident that he was being upset by it. However, he is to this day totally oblivious as to why people got on his case after 14 years, he thinks it is totally motivated by racism and that is how it has been portrayed. I think that is sad because he now feels that the majority of people are racist and I do not think they are and it is sad for him, psychologically speaking, to go through life believing that.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

The only colour I discriminate on the field are the ones on a guernsey. When I saw Goodes, I saw red and white.

As Lore said never was a fan as a player, but I'm for the most point indifferent to him as a person (I simply don't know the bloke). Same goes for Lamumba. I have no grievances over their views, but personally I wouldn't go about it the way they have, doesn't make it wrong or right to me, it's just preference.

I think BPB's comment is pertinent. I see a lot of homogenising, in that to assume all indigenous must have the same opinions and views as Goodes/Lamumba, and any criticisms of them by non-indigenous are inherently race driven. Both of these are pernicious from of racism that undermines nuance and obstructs any meaningful and productive discourse.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

20 min quarters next season ..thank **** for that!

'A fantastic step forward': AFLW to charge for tickets in 2021

Collingwood co-captain Steph Chiocci says fans will be willing to pay to watch AFLW games next year after the league decided all matches in the 2021 season would be ticketed.

www.theage.com.au