General Bombers Talk Non-Essendon Football Thread XV

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BrunoV

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Saad, Daniher and Fantasia not quite getting the armchair ride at their new teams they were hoping for of late
Blues have Mackay, Walsh and Weitering then a massive drop off in quality, they severely over-rate their list
3rd quarter against North was laughable viewing

It's not the overrating of the list that is the problem.

It's not having any functional defensive system to stop an opponent from piling on goals during the 50% of the time the opposition has the ball during a game. There is no real chance of winning that shootout they set up for without their Coleman Medal leading key forward.

North take an almost suicidal approach to attacking the game through the corridor. The third quarter was the perfect storm of North getting it together and Carlton leaving itself completely exposed. North will delude itself into thinking 'that's them' when literally no other side in the AFL will allow them the space to play like that and Carlton looks like it will be too scared to move on Teague who has not grown up from being an interim coach, setting up the players to have some fun, because that's the same old Carlton. This has been an issue for Carlton for 18 months now (last year the constant stream of runs of 4-5 goals conceded).

You only need to look at the recent "improvement" supposedly reflected by the results. I have heard the likes of Gary Lyon and David King laud the defensive improvement. I'm not really sure how I am supposed to read defensive improvement into the results in question.

Carlton 12.11.83 (54 i50s) def Adelaide 10.13.73 (50 i50s). That's the same number of scoring shots conceded against the side that has been in the worst form of the last 4 to 5 weeks and 50 inside 50s to that same sh*t show.

Carlton 12.8.80 (40 i50s) def Fremantle 8.16.64 (52 i50s). Another game in which it was conversion that got them over the line and despite a smashing in inside 50s.

Carlton 5.14.44 (38 i50s) def by Geelong 10.10.70 (56 i50s). Scoring shots are even but that's probably one of the biggest inside 50 differentials for the year.

Carlton 13.13.91 (54 i50s) def Collingwood 9.8.62 (45 i50s). It's the one game that the numbers line up with defensive improvement. They were outplayed by Collingwood for 3 quarters before overrunning them in the last on the back of Walsh and McKay turning it on. What I need here, and what I don't have, is the breakdowns for the last quarter because Collingwood stops and scores only 3 behinds in the last. I suspect the rest of the game will tell the same story.

They overrate the list to the extent that to be successful they are relying on a level of talent that exceeds the GWS dream team level to play an even less defensively solid game. While I don't think anyone is that optimistic about their list even if they had that level of talent the talent has never overcome the system.
 
Last edited:

TheGrizz

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It's not the overrating of the list that is the problem.

It's not having any functional defensive system to stop an opponent from piling on goals during the 50% of the time the opposition has the ball during a game. There is no real chance of winning that shootout they set up for without their Coleman Medal leading key forward.

North take an almost suicidal approach to attacking the game through the corridor. The third quarter was the perfect storm of North getting it together and Carlton leaving itself completely exposed. North will delude itself into thinking 'that's them' when literally no other side in the AFL will allow them the space to play like that and Carlton looks like it will be too scared to move on Teague who has not grown up from being an interim coach, setting up the players to have some fun, because that's the same old Carlton. This has been an issue for Carlton for 18 months now (last year the constant stream of runs of 4-5 goals conceded).

You only need to look at the recent "improvement" supposedly reflected by the results. I have heard the likes of Gary Lyon and David King laud the defensive improvement. I'm not really sure how I am supposed to read defensive improvement into the results in question.

Carlton 12.11.83 (54 i50s) def Adelaide 10.13.73 (50 i50s). That's the same number of scoring shots conceded against the side that has been in the worst form of the last 4 to 5 weeks and 50 inside 50s to that same sh*t show.

Carlton 12.8.80 (40 i50s) def Fremantle 8.16.64 (52 i50s). Another game in which it was conversion that got them over the line and despite a smashing in inside 50s.

Carlton 5.14.44 (38 i50s) def by Geelong 10.10.70 (56 i50s). Scoring shots are even but that's probably one of the biggest inside 50 differentials for the year.

They were outplayed by Collingwood for 3 quarters before overrunning them in the last on the back of Walsh and McKay turning it on.
You are being slightly harsh on Norf i think.

In the 6 weeks prior to this game they beat West Coast and GCS, drew against GWS and only lost to Brisbane, the WB and us by 3 goals.

Their style of play has held up against some good opposition. To say it was 'suicidal' gamestyle made possible by a shambolic Carlton defence is only part true.

Carlton was absolutely shambolic, but Norf have shown that their use of the corridor stands up, and their close enough games over the past 6 weeks against quality teams indicates they still maintain some defensive structure behind the ball, unlike Carlolton like you said.
 

BrunoV

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You are being slightly harsh on Norf i think.

In the 6 weeks prior to this game they beat West Coast and GCS, drew against GWS and only lost to Brisbane, the WB and us by 3 goals.

Their style of play has held up against some good opposition. To say it was 'suicidal' gamestyle made possible by a shambolic Carlton defence is only part true.

Carlton was absolutely shambolic, but Norf have shown that their use of the corridor stands up, and their close enough games over the past 6 weeks against quality teams indicates they still maintain some defensive structure behind the ball, unlike Carlolton like you said.

I agree with all of that. No doubt their game has been stacking up well in recent times.
 

boncer34

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It's not the overrating of the list that is the problem.

It's not having any functional defensive system to stop an opponent from piling on goals during the 50% of the time the opposition has the ball during a game. There is no real chance of winning that shootout they set up for without their Coleman Medal leading key forward.

North take an almost suicidal approach to attacking the game through the corridor. The third quarter was the perfect storm of North getting it together and Carlton leaving itself completely exposed. North will delude itself into thinking 'that's them' when literally no other side in the AFL will allow them the space to play like that and Carlton looks like it will be too scared to move on Teague who has not grown up from being an interim coach, setting up the players to have some fun, because that's the same old Carlton. This has been an issue for Carlton for 18 months now (last year the constant stream of runs of 4-5 goals conceded).

You only need to look at the recent "improvement" supposedly reflected by the results. I have heard the likes of Gary Lyon and David King laud the defensive improvement. I'm not really sure how I am supposed to read defensive improvement into the results in question.

Carlton 12.11.83 (54 i50s) def Adelaide 10.13.73 (50 i50s). That's the same number of scoring shots conceded against the side that has been in the worst form of the last 4 to 5 weeks and 50 inside 50s to that same sh*t show.

Carlton 12.8.80 (40 i50s) def Fremantle 8.16.64 (52 i50s). Another game in which it was conversion that got them over the line and despite a smashing in inside 50s.

Carlton 5.14.44 (38 i50s) def by Geelong 10.10.70 (56 i50s). Scoring shots are even but that's probably one of the biggest inside 50 differentials for the year.

Carlton 13.13.91 (54 i50s) def Collingwood 9.8.62 (45 i50s). It's the one game that the numbers line up with defensive improvement. They were outplayed by Collingwood for 3 quarters before overrunning them in the last on the back of Walsh and McKay turning it on. What I need here, and what I don't have, is the breakdowns for the last quarter because Collingwood stops and scores only 3 behinds in the last. I suspect the rest of the game will tell the same story.

They overrate the list to the extent that to be successful they are relying on a level of talent that exceeds the GWS dream team level to play an even less defensively solid game. While I don't think anyone is that optimistic about their list even if they had that level of talent the talent has never overcome the system.
Maybe the players are all front runners and aren't able or willing to do the work to defend.
 

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ghostdog

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Fiorini is so weird. More than 20% of his career games are 30 disposal games so can can rack it up with the best of them but I’m not actually convinced he’s any good
I saw one i50 from Fiorini that was low, flat and an absolute dart. May that contribute to a collective understanding of the enigmatic Fiorini.
 

TheGrizz

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Maybe the players are all front runners and aren't able or willing to do the work to defend.
I think this might be the most likely reality.
Apparently Bolton was incredibly stringent with how he wanted to defend, which grew wearisome with the playing group and part of the reason he 'lost' them.

Teague comes in with a bombastic game style, wins them over (and the job) and now cant convince them to defend...
 

sameolds33

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You are being slightly harsh on Norf i think.

In the 6 weeks prior to this game they beat West Coast and GCS, drew against GWS and only lost to Brisbane, the WB and us by 3 goals.

Their style of play has held up against some good opposition. To say it was 'suicidal' gamestyle made possible by a shambolic Carlton defence is only part true.

Carlton was absolutely shambolic, but Norf have shown that their use of the corridor stands up, and their close enough games over the past 6 weeks against quality teams indicates they still maintain some defensive structure behind the ball, unlike Carlolton like you said.
Coaching a big factor in the relative fortunes of each team. The ability to unlock the talent of each list is probably more important to the on field talent. Noble and his team have done a good job.
 

doug85

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I think this might be the most likely reality.
Apparently Bolton was incredibly stringent with how he wanted to defend, which grew wearisome with the playing group and part of the reason he 'lost' them.

Teague comes in with a bombastic game style, wins them over (and the job) and now cant convince them to defend...
4348279B-0A0D-4617-90B4-B12A8E645FA3.jpeg
 

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