Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread XII

[CBombers17]

For me:

Top 6: Adelaide (Rate them. Gibbs a quality inclusion), Essendon (Will waver between this and the group below all year haha), Geelong (still an underrated side. Crameri to have a good season), GWS (Just have quality everywhere), Melbourne (In the minority here. It's up to Goodwin, his recruiting team have done their job, he needs to execute), Richmond (Strong side and reckon they'll be up again. Praying they don't get Tom Lynch)

Middle 6: Port Adelaide (controversial but don't really get their inclusions. They took them because they were there), Sydney (Probably end up top 6 at ours or Melbourne's expense honestly), St. Kilda (Good list, but can they take the next step?), Western Bulldogs (It isn't peachy down there but have enough quality to challenge for finals), West Coast (Will be okay but not great. Midfield needs to step up quickly), Fremantle (drawing lots here, just think that their speed will worry other sides)

Bottom 6: Brisbane (improved again but aren't mature enough yet), Carlton (good coach, strong KPP's. Hate to say it but Carlton are doing things right), Collingwood (overrated list. Atrocious quality forward and back with a one way midfield that have too many poor kicks), Gold Coast (Will be poor. Big chance for the spoon and possibly multiple top 5 picks this year and next if Lynch goes), Hawthorn (Still have a lot of older guys. Arrogance seems to think they'll get Lynch but won't happen IMO), North Melbourne (Poor list, really. Spoon favourites IMO, closely followed by Gold Coast).

In ladder form:

1. Adelaide
2. GWS
3. Geelong
4. Richmond
5. Melbourne
6. Essendon
7. Sydney
8. Port Adelaide
-----------------------
9. St. Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. West Coast
12. Fremantle
13. Carlton
14. Hawthorn
15. Brisbane
16. Collingwood
17. Gold Coast
18. North Melbourne

Looks good for mine. There will be surprises as always and the middle six could go any way but this is about how I would have it too.

 

[Phone]

if melbourne players had reason to be concerned about their health and safety, they absolutely should have gone to their AFLPA delegates before going to the coaching staff.

(and then in magical fairytale world, pre-season training commencing before January gets banned)

 

[MightyDons4]

Port Adelaide (controversial but don't really get their inclusions. They took them because they were there)

We literally did the exact same thing.

 

[eth-dog]

We literally did the exact same thing.

Don't agree. Based on training reports we've included Smith as a midfielder and clearly intend that Stringer will spend significant time there as well, the area of the ground we need the most work on. The recruitment of Saad is to allow McGrath to play midfield more easily

 

[Mercurial89]

For me:

Top 6: Adelaide (Rate them. Gibbs a quality inclusion), Essendon (Will waver between this and the group below all year haha), Geelong (still an underrated side. Crameri to have a good season), GWS (Just have quality everywhere), Melbourne (In the minority here. It's up to Goodwin, his recruiting team have done their job, he needs to execute), Richmond (Strong side and reckon they'll be up again. Praying they don't get Tom Lynch)

Middle 6: Port Adelaide (controversial but don't really get their inclusions. They took them because they were there), Sydney (Probably end up top 6 at ours or Melbourne's expense honestly), St. Kilda (Good list, but can they take the next step?), Western Bulldogs (It isn't peachy down there but have enough quality to challenge for finals), West Coast (Will be okay but not great. Midfield needs to step up quickly), Fremantle (drawing lots here, just think that their speed will worry other sides)

Bottom 6: Brisbane (improved again but aren't mature enough yet), Carlton (good coach, strong KPP's. Hate to say it but Carlton are doing things right), Collingwood (overrated list. Atrocious quality forward and back with a one way midfield that have too many poor kicks), Gold Coast (Will be poor. Big chance for the spoon and possibly multiple top 5 picks this year and next if Lynch goes), Hawthorn (Still have a lot of older guys. Arrogance seems to think they'll get Lynch but won't happen IMO), North Melbourne (Poor list, really. Spoon favourites IMO, closely followed by Gold Coast).

In ladder form:

1. Adelaide
2. GWS
3. Geelong
4. Richmond
5. Melbourne
6. Essendon
7. Sydney
8. Port Adelaide
-----------------------
9. St. Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. West Coast
12. Fremantle
13. Carlton
14. Hawthorn
15. Brisbane
16. Collingwood
17. Gold Coast
18. North Melbourne

Pretty much agree with your 8 though I think GWS lower and Port higher.
Bottom 9 I think west coast lower, pies higher. hawks scraping the 8 alongside saints. Brisbane above Freo, wherever they fall.

 

[eth-dog]

Pretty much agree with your 8 though I think GWS lower and Port higher.
Bottom 9 I think west coast lower, pies higher. hawks scraping the 8 alongside saints. Brisbane above Freo, wherever they fall.

Haha I'd have West Coast lower too but I really only think that there are 10 teams that can make finals and given that NN is back he can win enough games off his own boot to be the best of that lot. Who would you kick out of that 8 for Hawthorne?

 

[BrunoV]

Port and Collingwood are the two hardest teams to read.

Collingwood gets no where near enough out of the ability of its players. It has more than enough to trouble the top 8 simply because it's midfield can crush anyone in a midfield battle. The second time we played Collingwood last year provided a real insight into how rudderless it can be.

The other point I'd make is that just because Buckley has been utterly incompetent to this point, and should have lost his job, doesn't mean that he can't get better. Coaching is becoming like Aussie test selection. The reality is that for a certain level of ability time is the major factor in 'making it' and it starts to become self-fulfilling.

Whereas it seems that Port had probably reached its limit for the group it had. It also seems like Wines, Powell Pepper and Wingard could all go to another level. I doubt that Port's recruits will change that much because they are predominately adding to the front-running power of a front-running side. Rockliff is the one who could have a big impact assuming that Gray is fit and somewhere near his best (otherwise they even each other out for 2018).

I'd say that the point about Port, having come this far, is probably that its strengths should be good enough for the top 6 but I doubt that it is a threat in finals because its defensive game is almost never up to scratch.

 

[Runk]

GWS have little in the run off half back stocks this year due to injuries/trades already. They're going to struggle if they're relying on Heath Shaw.

They will finish no higher than 7 for mine.

 

[eth-dog]

GWS have little in the run off half back stocks this year due to injuries/trades already. They're going to struggle if they're relying on Heath Shaw.

They will finish no higher than 7 for mine.

Buntine, Haynes, Kennedy and Shaw are all still fit and will go well

 

[Mercurial89]

Haha I'd have West Coast lower too but I really only think that there are 10 teams that can make finals and given that NN is back he can win enough games off his own boot to be the best of that lot. Who would you kick out of that 8 for Hawthorne?

Sorry I meant scraping to get in, I don't think they make it but they miss on either percentage or 1 game, same as saints. You are right id say there are probably 10 teams that can make 8 this year if things go well. It should be a cracking season.

GWS have little in the run off half back stocks this year due to injuries/trades already. They're going to struggle if they're relying on Heath Shaw.

They will finish no higher than 7 for mine.

Massive blow for sure and sucks because he was really starting to get going, a year out of the game hurts. Does give them opportunities though, blood a few more youngsters, Perryman, Delidio or Griffin they may try back there it may even be good change of role for Griffin and Deledio always looked great coming off half back.
As Eth said Buntine, Haynes, Kennedy and Shaw are all able to do the role.

Buntine, Haynes, Kennedy and Shaw are all still fit and will go well

Kennedy and Buntine a bit off with the knee recos but will be handy inclusions when they are ready.

Port and Collingwood are the two hardest teams to read.

Collingwood gets no where near enough out of the ability of its players. It has more than enough to trouble the top 8 simply because it's midfield can crush anyone in a midfield battle. The second time we played Collingwood last year provided a real insight into how rudderless it can be.

The other point I'd make is that just because Buckley has been utterly incompetent to this point, and should have lost his job, doesn't mean that he can't get better. Coaching is becoming like Aussie test selection. The reality is that for a certain level of ability time is the major factor in 'making it' and it starts to become self-fulfilling.

Whereas it seems that Port had probably reached its limit for the group it had. It also seems like Wines, Powell Pepper and Wingard could all go to another level. I doubt that Port's recruits will change that much because they are predominately adding to the front-running power of a front-running side. Rockliff is the one who could have a big impact assuming that Gray is fit and somewhere near his best (otherwise they even each other out for 2018).

I'd say that the point about Port, having typed to this point, is probably that its strengths should be good enough for the top 6 but I doubt that it is a threat in finals because its defensive game is almost never up to scratch.

I think those two teams can be categorised the same way, they have the talent to have been doing a lot better than they have been but the coaching has left them short.

I truly believe Buckley will do quite well this year. Dimma was in the same position with the tigers, was too much of a perfectionist too rigid and controlling. He let go and the tigers responded.
If Bucks changes (and its all ego and the way he is wired so maybe he cant) then Pies as you said have the midfield to compete alongside the top 6 teams in the league. I think they will be ok this year, don't think they can win it due to lacking in the other two thirds of the ground but will push for finals. Id probably add them to my group that could make it if everything goes well and a few falter.

 

[Runk]

Buntine, Haynes, Kennedy and Shaw are all still fit and will go well

I like your optimism Eth.

Nick Haynes I'll grant you. Absolutely outstanding player and at a Vic club would be classed as a star (if he's not already).
He's going to have to really own that HBF this year. Would love him at Bomberland.

Buntine having missed an entire year of footy would have a big ? over him. Would be great to see him get back to it.
Adam Kennedy is pacy but NEAFL standard at best. Hasn't shown any real consistency. So again another ?.

I don't believe they can rely on old Shaw's legs for that kind of run. I'm happy to be proven otherwise.

 

[BrunoV]

Buntine, Haynes, Kennedy and Shaw are all still fit and will go well

I'd throw Deledio at half back given that it's where he played most of his best footy. He has the speed and other qualities to be more than a stop gap for the year. They're very much 'in the window' so age ought not to be a factor in team selection.

They could probably re-cast Whitfield without too much difficulty.

They've got options and they also get a lot of run from the wings/midfield so their ability to run the ball from half back is not necessarily that important.

 

[Beerfish]

given that NN is back he can win enough games off his own boot

I think you might be overestimating slightly.

Surprised you don't have them top 4 again.

 

[eth-dog]

I think you might be overestimating slightly.

Surprised you don't have them top 4 again.

You always underrate West Coast so eh.

 

[Beerfish]

You always underrate West Coast so eh.

Nah I'm usually around the mark with them.

 

[BrunoV]

On the subject of Melbourne I largely agree with ant555.

I understand why eth-dog has them in the top 5 - on paper there is no real limit to what they can achieve - but they are far too unreliable.

The guy I talk Melbourne with, and the reason I have developed a soft spot for the Dees, has basically talked himself out of any optimism for the coming season which has definitely impacted my view of their prospects. There are bits and pieces floating about which indicate that it's not necessarily the best place to be with a disconnect between coach and players and a bit of dodgy leadership.

It shouldn't matter but if they stuff up in the early rounds the cancellation of the boot camp will become a real issue for the Garry Lyons of this world who will be on their soap box about Melbourne being weak.

Honestly, none of it seems to be serious enough but I doubt that they have the club-wide mentality to 'bolt' into the middle of the top 8.

I'd be happy to seem them do better but my guess is that they will scrape into the 8 at best and that the year is likely to uncover a few creases which will need to be ironed out before they are a really serious team. Yes, this is already a 'they'll be better next year' comment but I don't rate Goodwin and I don't think that he has managed them well enough to get the require buy-in from everyone - which is not to say that he won't get there. It's just a hunch.

 

[Beerfish]

I've heard a few people knock Goodwin since he left us but don't understand why? Can someone explain?

 

[nesko_25]

View attachment 453110

 

[JayJ20]

For me:

Top 6: Adelaide (Rate them. Gibbs a quality inclusion), Essendon (Will waver between this and the group below all year haha), Geelong (still an underrated side. Crameri to have a good season), GWS (Just have quality everywhere), Melbourne (In the minority here. It's up to Goodwin, his recruiting team have done their job, he needs to execute), Richmond (Strong side and reckon they'll be up again. Praying they don't get Tom Lynch)

Middle 6: Port Adelaide (controversial but don't really get their inclusions. They took them because they were there), Sydney (Probably end up top 6 at ours or Melbourne's expense honestly), St. Kilda (Good list, but can they take the next step?), Western Bulldogs (It isn't peachy down there but have enough quality to challenge for finals), West Coast (Will be okay but not great. Midfield needs to step up quickly), Fremantle (drawing lots here, just think that their speed will worry other sides)

Bottom 6: Brisbane (improved again but aren't mature enough yet), Carlton (good coach, strong KPP's. Hate to say it but Carlton are doing things right), Collingwood (overrated list. Atrocious quality forward and back with a one way midfield that have too many poor kicks), Gold Coast (Will be poor. Big chance for the spoon and possibly multiple top 5 picks this year and next if Lynch goes), Hawthorn (Still have a lot of older guys. Arrogance seems to think they'll get Lynch but won't happen IMO), North Melbourne (Poor list, really. Spoon favourites IMO, closely followed by Gold Coast).

In ladder form:

1. Adelaide
2. GWS
3. Geelong
4. Richmond
5. Melbourne
6. Essendon
7. Sydney
8. Port Adelaide
-----------------------
9. St. Kilda
10. Western Bulldogs
11. West Coast
12. Fremantle
13. Carlton
14. Hawthorn
15. Brisbane
16. Collingwood
17. Gold Coast
18. North Melbourne

Agree with most of that. Collingwood, Hawthorn and Port too low IMO. Carlton a little too high with Gibbs gone and Docherty out.

I'd be surprised if anyone other than Gold Coast win the spoon.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

View attachment 453110

Haha good one Crows.

 

[citizen-erased]

On the subject of Melbourne I largely agree with ant555.

I understand why eth-dog has them in the top 5 - on paper there is no real limit to what they can achieve - but they are far too unreliable.

The guy I talk Melbourne with, and the reason I have developed a soft spot for the Dees, has basically talked himself out of any optimism for the coming season which has definitely impacted my view of their prospects. There are bits and pieces floating about which indicate that it's not necessarily the best place to be with a disconnect between coach and players and a bit of dodgy leadership.

It shouldn't matter but if they stuff up in the early rounds the cancellation of the boot camp will become a real issue for the Garry Lyons of this world who will be on their soap box about Melbourne being weak.

Honestly, none of it seems to be serious enough but I doubt that they have the club-wide mentality to 'bolt' into the middle of the top 8.

I'd be happy to seem them do better but my guess is that they will scrape into the 8 at best and that the year is likely to uncover a few creases which will need to be ironed out before they are a really serious team. Yes, this is already a 'they'll be better next year' comment but I don't rate Goodwin and I don't think that he has managed them well enough to get the require buy-in from everyone - which is not to say that he won't get there. It's just a hunch.

they were burned quite badly as a supporter group by Rd23 last year.
I don't blame them.

Any plans to move TMac forward and rely on OMac, Lever and Frost is going to be fraught with danger. None of the 3 are good one on one defenders. Lever is great for interceptions and Frost is quick for a big guy. O.McDonald is very suspect.
They seem to be all run out of defence and very little grit/graft.

outside run from the middle and the backlines ability to lockdown are my question marks.

 

[ant555]

Top ups. Got a bit of a mention today with Tippet going. Personally I think it should be case by case. If a bloke can not play anywhere because of injury then a club should be able to choose to explore picking up another player. I would however say it needs to be before a set date and not during the season.

As for some dredging up mid season drafts. Wont work. We all got a look at how hard it was for a number of our top up players and they where picked in Jan. No chance of being anywhere near AFL level in June.

 

[Beerfish]

* Sydney.

 

[Lore]

We all got a look at how hard it was for a number of our top up players and they where picked in Jan. No chance of being anywhere near AFL level in June.

Same thought I had this morning when I saw that top-up thing.

They already have a rookie list to draw from that can train through the summer and replace them at any time when they become incapacitated... That was the whole point of the rookie list from a list management perspective, until they changed the rules at the end of last year so that category A rookies can play without being upgraded. Cat B still need to be upgraded as per previous rules.

Rookies should have dibs on senior list spots over random state league players. They put in the hard yards and accept the lower pay for that very reason. Now they want to add even more players to the list, and skip the queue besides? Where does it end?

When we had top ups, we lost 12 but we gained 10. The other two spots were to be filled with rookie upgrades (there was wiggle room to upgrade more rookies if we chose to, but no more than 10 top ups regardless). So perhaps, if someone retires, upgrade a rookie permanently to the senior list and pay them accordingly. You can do this at any time. Then, if you're so damned desperate, as determined by whether or not you've already permanently upgraded two rookies (as per the threshold in 2015), have a mid-season rookie draft to replace any rookies you permanently upgraded.

Or just leave it the * alone and work within the limitations you've been given. I'm cool with that too. In fact I might even prefer it.

 

[Phone]

I'm not sure there's another league/sport in the world that locks everyone's squad like 2 months after a season ends and like 4 months before the next season actually starts