Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion

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vidwhal

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Because Robert Walls predicted this, does this mean Carltank are wooden spooners this year? THAT would be DEEEELIGHTFUL!!!
 

Taylor

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I don't think their list/talent has been the issue has it?
I think it's exactly what the problem has been. They sold off/let go a swath of senior and mid ranged aged players, some of which are still playing elsewhere or retired just last season to try and rebuild something competitive while they had Chris Judd (who they also sold the farm to buy).

They've been playing catch up on talent since.
 

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Scham

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I don't think their list/talent has been the issue has it?

Absolutely! Following the Malthouse period their list was diabolical - probably as bad as it gets. It's really no surprise it's taken them this long to rebuild it.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Draft picks haven't been their problem. But what they havee done with them absolutely has. You can spend a top 10 pick on Caleb Seong ... or Lochie O'Brien.
 

theGav56

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Draft picks haven't been their problem. But what they havee done with them absolutely has. You can spend a top 10 pick on Caleb Seong ... or Lochie O'Brien.

List issues are symptoms, not causes.

To me it looks like they have suffered from poor recruitment, development and s&c. Much of that goes higher to coaching and Board level. That is where strategies like going hard at GWS players and the senior staff and coaching appointments are ratified.
 

Daddoo

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Just finished reading Pav’s book and he advocates for raising the draft age too. I don’t know the culture in AUS enough to say one way or the other but it seems like it makes sense. Our US athletes benefit from a strong collegiate system here to help prepare them for the professional leagues. Not sure how the WAFL, SANFL, VFL, etc would handle it. It would also reduce the go home factor you’d think.


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CakeEater

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Just finished reading Pav’s book and he advocates for raising the draft age too. I don’t know the culture in AUS enough to say one way or the other but it seems like it makes sense. Our US athletes benefit from a strong collegiate system here to help prepare them for the professional leagues. Not sure how the WAFL, SANFL, VFL, etc would handle it. It would also reduce the go home factor you’d think.


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The issue is that not many 17-21 year olds move willingly in Australia unlike in America where its accepted that sometimes you need to move for college.
 

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theGav56

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The issue is that not many 17-21 year olds move willingly in Australia unlike in America where its accepted that sometimes you need to move for college.
I know we tend to hear from/about draftees that don't want to move, but I think it is overstated. Willingness to move would be a good topic for some genuine research.

I wonder if potential draftees could mark their profiles as willing to move or not how many would actually do that?

Live trading could be a solution to. I wonder if clubs were required to pay a draft premium for selecting players unwilling to move (say +20% draft points) how that would go?

eg Fremantle bids on unwilling Jeff White at pick 1. Because he has marked unwilling to move he can be live traded for equivalent pick 1 + 20%. Fremantle select again, and their next pick (or future first round) upgraded with the 20%.
 

Daddoo

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I know we tend to hear from/about draftees that don't want to move, but I think it is overstated. Willingness to move would be a good topic for some genuine research.

I wonder if potential draftees could mark their profiles as willing to move or not how many would actually do that?

Live trading could be a solution to. I wonder if clubs were required to pay a draft premium for selecting players unwilling to move (say +20% draft points) how that would go?

eg Fremantle bids on unwilling Jeff White at pick 1. Because he has marked unwilling to move he can be live traded for equivalent pick 1 + 20%. Fremantle select again, and their next pick (or future first round) upgraded with the 20%.

Now that’s a creative idea. I’m not sure how it would work and I could see players indicate they’re willing to move and then change their mind once they move, which would cause some fans heads to explode. Lol. I think just raising the age, even by a year or so, would be easier.


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theGav56

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Now that’s a creative idea. I’m not sure how it would work and I could see players indicate they’re willing to move and then change their mind once they move, which would cause some fans heads to explode. Lol. I think just raising the age, even by a year or so, would be easier.


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I have reservations about raising draft age and don't see the need to do it. My major concerns are that we don't have a national league or system for them to go into. In the end that will result in a twilight period where players pursue other options.

Someone suggested Balic's situation as a justification but despite the tragedy I don't see the correlation. There may be developments for improvement in player management for young guys, but it can be a difficult time of life.
 

Taylor

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We will lose a lot of the less well off young men raising the age meanwhile the private school boys who will be supported by their family while they wait for a career they were always going to get into.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Just finished reading Pav’s book and he advocates for raising the draft age too. I don’t know the culture in AUS enough to say one way or the other but it seems like it makes sense. Our US athletes benefit from a strong collegiate system here to help prepare them for the professional leagues. Not sure how the WAFL, SANFL, VFL, etc would handle it. It would also reduce the go home factor you’d think.


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We should raise the draft age. Or introduce something like a baseball style farm system.

But either way football needs to develop a new, fully professional, "minor league/development league" system to improve the transition from junior footy to the AFL.

The semi-pro independent state league system only exists because of inertia.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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We will lose a lot of the less well off young men raising the age meanwhile the private school boys who will be supported by their family while they wait for a career they were always going to get into.
Not if they could play pro footy somewhere. Earning, say, 40-60k in a develpmental system with a shot at big money in a few years would probably increase retenyion in mid-to-late teens as there are more slots available immediately post high school
 

Taylor

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Not if they could play pro footy somewhere. Earning, say, 40-60k in a develpmental system with a shot at big money in a few years would probably increase retenyion in mid-to-late teens as there are more slots available immediately post high school
You can make a strong case for a college sport system where the athletes get training or education in skills while showcasing their talents and training.

It's actually where I think the NGA should move. Turn them into high school scholarships for elite junior talent and their siblings. Then the club who paid for the family to go to private school gets the player for free.
 

theGav56

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I think that is a pretty ordinary article with nada analysis.

It almost totally bases itself around 2 tragic stories of young men no longer in the AFL at the time, one of whom was drafted as a mature age player. And the source of the article, an interview with Shephard, should be balanced by professionals working in the field of suicide prevention for young men if that is the basis of the article.

The bizarre suggestion that the draft age is raised apart from the first round is totally lacking any rationale and undermines the proposal. It fails to consider that groups of players in the same age group may in fact provide the best situation. It provides no criteria for why some 18 year olds are apparently good to join the hurley-burley and others need to further develop.

It doesn't raise the question of why the concept, by permitting some 18 year olds to be drafted as 18 year olds yet preventing others from doing so, doesn't constitute a restraint of trade.

It would also benefit from some simple statistics such as rates of suicide for young men 18-24 in both the general community and within the AFL system, indigenous players, players who have previously been incarcerated. Instead it simply gives voice to an unsubstantiated and tenuous link between draft age and suicide prevention, which is a pretty serious issue.

It might use statistics to compare AFL with other sports with different draft entry levels. It might compare the impact of relocation interstate (for example, to attend university or work) to inform conclusions. It might differentiate between draft age and relocation to determine what may have the greater impact.

And it fails to consider that the current draft age and structure may indeed be having a positive impact on issues many young people confront.
 
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