Non-Influencial 'Gun' Players

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Bunk Moreland

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#52
It's because we see him doing all the same things that used to frustrate us. The **** set shots, the refusing to crash a pack, the avoidance of strong body contact. All these things are holding him back from being one of the best if not the best player in the comp. I agree he shouldn't be criticised too much since he's been pretty good this year. But players will always cop criticism when they don't fulfil their potential.
What? Avoiding body contact? That’s almost the thing you could least accuse him of. Must be a different player now.

I've just been praising him on another thread, but let's be real. He's incredibly inconsistent.

If he had the workrate of most AFL players he'd be one of the best player in the competition.

"Yawn"
His workrate is actually pretty good imo. I think he’s been pretty bloody consistent for us, this year in particular. But the highs were higher at the Bulldogs. I thinks he’s changed a little as a player.
 

saintscott

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#53
Agree seb ross for us. And rockliff for port. Haven't watched clayton oliver much this year but in seasons past, he looked afraid to kick it so not overly damaging
 

Scotland

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#54
Seb Ross looks like he's trying to be something he isn't. He's a good player but an accumulator not a dashing long kicking player like Isaac Smith. Get the feeling he is trying to run and create more and it's impacting his natural game.
 

Jobe Watson

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#55
Matt Crouch is such a weird gun player. Sometimes he'll have the ball 35 times and be one of the most influential players on the ground. Other times he'll have it 35 times and be completely anonymous.

Jake Lloyd the obvious one - pure chipscab. Lachie Hunter has never really been that influential for a guy who averages 30 touches per game. Tom Phillips, Tom Rockliff, Brandon Ellis.
 

HairyO

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#58
How is Tom Mitchell simultaneously:
a) The least influential gun
b) The reason why the Hawks won't make finals this year through his injury

This thread in its entirety is peak BigFooty.
The best bit is it will be the same posters saying both those things.

Mitchell beat the entire Melbourne midfield with a busted shoulder last year.
 

harrythetiger

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#59
Mitchell is comparable to this sort of player, but he gets so bloody much of it he is absolutely influential. Also does enough inside work. Death by 1000 possessions mainly though.
 

rogiebear93

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#60
Mitchell is comparable to this sort of player, but he gets so bloody much of it he is absolutely influential. Death by 1000 possessions.
I've always felt Mitchell's impact was less in the possessions and more in his work rate.

In terms of inside midfielders, the only bloke in 2018 who came close to his capacity to stay on the ground was Patrick Cripps. He averaged 90% TOG and regularly covered 15kms a game. A lot of Hawthorn's game was based around having certain guys like Shaun Burgoyne who were maximum impact in limited minutes, and Tom's ability to stay on the ground allowed us to do that.

Have noticed we're a lot more stuffed in 2019 and I'd reckon Tom's omission and its impact on our rotations is a big reason.
 

Mofra

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His workrate is actually pretty good imo. I think he’s been pretty bloody consistent for us, this year in particular. But the highs were higher at the Bulldogs. I thinks he’s changed a little as a player.
He had a very good year in 2015 but he wasn't pinch hitting in the midfield like he does at Essendon. Last two rounds I noticed he'd take a centre bounce then run forward to play in the fowardline, I actually think it's a good strategy. He's huge and has explosive speed so gives you a chance of the first clearance, then plays in an area we know he is good in.
 

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Scotland

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#64
How is Tom Mitchell simultaneously:
a) The least influential gun
b) The reason why the Hawks won't make finals this year through his injury

This thread in its entirety is peak BigFooty.
Hawks are borderline even with Mitchell but that's an aside.

He's the sort of guy that can have 40 touches and be BOG or a non-factor.

Mitchell winning every centre bounce clearance = FFFFUUUU put someone on him FFFUUU
Mitchell getting 1-2 handballs and 20 sideways kicks at half back and centre win = whatever, let him go
 

juss

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#66
Tom Mitchell is the best example of a gun and a non-influential player. For how good he is as what he does, it does not translate to influence well at all. With the amount of ball he wins he should be tearing games apart off his own boot but there are guys who get half his touches that do more with the ball and win the game.

From the Tigers I would say Dion Prestia. Can win a lot of ball, but I never see much positive influence. I would also question where he falls into "gun" status. Not sure what constitutes a gun here.
 

AFDogs

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#68
How can you get the footy 30 times a game on be non-influential?

I'd much rather a player get 32 and go at 50% DE, then a guy who gets it 13-14 times and goes at 90% DE.

Of course the more you get it, the less you're going to use it well. To say a player like Laird or Mitchell are 'non-influential' is absolutely ridiculous.
 

juss

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#68
How can you get the footy 30 times a game on be non-influential?

I'd much rather a player get 32 and go at 50% DE, then a guy who gets it 13-14 times and goes at 90% DE.

Of course the more you get it, the less you're going to use it well. To say a player like Laird or Mitchell are 'non-influential' is absolutely ridiculous.
Non-influential is maybe the wrong term for what really means less influential than their stats suggest? Or guys who are rated in the game but dont actually influence the game as much as they are talked about?
 

Knox Harrington

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#70
What? Avoiding body contact? That’s almost the thing you could least accuse him of. Must be a different player now.



His workrate is actually pretty good imo. I think he’s been pretty bloody consistent for us, this year in particular. But the highs were higher at the Bulldogs. I thinks he’s changed a little as a player.
You've summed him up pretty well.

From what i saw of Jake at the bulldogs he had more flair and was much more of a "hollywood" type of player hence the package nickname.

At Essendon he seems like a bustling mid/undersized key forward. The most impressive thing to me has been his competitiveness and work ethic.

Jake isnt an absolute top shelf gun superstar player in the Judd/Ablett/Carey mould. Considering his trade price, he is performing at or above expectations id say.
 

NonPhixion

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#75
Cogs. Hence why I don't really want him to come to Hawthorn.
Who are you talking about? Wouldn’t be Stephen Coniglio who last year nearly single handily won the SF for the giants, and who is having a great season so far....

Jake Lloyd- doesn’t win any contested ball
Lachie hunter fits the bill too
 
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