Non Lions Discussion 2019

Gadzorks

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2015
3,847
4,931
AFL Club
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Lets hope Dayne returns for finals at the expense of Brayden Sier... Sier get the poos and requests a trade to the Lions.

BTW, I'd be all for gambling advertising going the way of tobacco advertising. Sporting teams and competitions will find other sponsorship options to fill the hole. IIRC it was all doom and gloom when it was mooted re tobacco being given the boot and it never materialized that way in practice.
The gambling supporters all quote how responsible gambling is a bit of social fun and the heavy gamblers talk about how money goes back into the community via grants.

The reality is that if people had cash in their pockets they could find other fun and socialising options would increase and the gambling agencies make a few very very rich (bloody packers), and the money has very little flow in effect. Imagine instead of gambling people put their money into experiences of entertainment and dining. So many more jobs created and the dollars flow on through the economy, not just buy mega rich bastards mega toys, houses and cars that mostly sit idle and don’t creat nearly as many jobs.
 

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briztoon

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2015
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Interesting from Gold Coast.

Club are going to AFL about the NEAFL team they want a bigger list of mature age State League players for NEAFL /Development list. They don't want Club top ups anymore. They have identified this as an issue and want assistance.
 

Gadzorks

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2015
3,847
4,931
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Interesting from Gold Coast.
I like it and think it will help move toward drafting higher age players, - which could help mitigate mental health problems to some extent. The immediate pressure on some of the 18yo draft picks is way too high, and surely contributes to mental health problems down the track.
 

briztoon

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 28, 2015
6,968
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I like it and think it will help move toward drafting higher age players, - which could help mitigate mental health problems to some extent. The immediate pressure on some of the 18yo draft picks is way too high, and surely contributes to mental health problems down the track.
The big problem for Gold Coast is they have almost no senior depth, so with a moderate injury list, their NEAFL team is full of all kids, either recent draftees or Academy top ups, and they’ve been smashed from pillar to post by just about every team.

What they need is a further list clear out of a heap kids that aren’t likely to make it, and top up with half a dozen mature bodies that might be fringe players at other clubs, but border line top 30 players at GC.

They need a few players like Bastinac and Keays, and a Lester.
 

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eppo67

Club Legend
May 24, 2015
2,158
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I like it and think it will help move toward drafting higher age players, - which could help mitigate mental health problems to some extent. The immediate pressure on some of the 18yo draft picks is way too high, and surely contributes to mental health problems down the track.
Very good point
 

lioninthesand

Premiership Player
Feb 22, 2016
3,873
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AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Can I just say.. I am so dam sick of this "ANTI AFL EVERYTHING" fan narrative that the media and peanuts on social media are driving.

IMO the AFL do a generally good job in steering the ship, full of overly passionate people that are impossible to keep happy.

The 'studs up'.. 'death of the speccy'.. outrage is a perfect example, my god, the biggest over reaction in the history of sport.

The state of the game debate. Last year they were all demanding something be done to change the game back to what it was in the 90's (never going to happen) now that some reasonably sensible measures were taken to help that, they all want them to "Leave the game alone!".

And, TBH I think there are often 4 or 5 good games a week and the league has never been more even.

People saying the AFL have ruined the game. NO. Coaches and modern tactics have changed the game, barely anything the AFL has done has directly ruined or changed the game (in comparison to the evolution of the game). Plus, game style, strategy, tough scoring duels, sports science where always going to become a factor, the 90's was fun - but lets face it, 'Pagans paddock' and 'the switch' where the only tactics in the mid 2000's - would we really not wanted the game to have evolved since then? just a big old game of kick to kick with no pressure and the same player kicking the same goal 10 times over.

Umpiring - it's a hard game to umpire. Always has been, always will be. I don't think 'contact below the knees', 'ducking rule', 'deliberate out of bounds' have been bad rules, just people getting used to them is an issue. Umpiring as a whole is frustrating but it is in most sports, try watching the NBA, where contact is almost always up to the discretion of the ref. The rule changes have been slight, umpiring is an issue, but the AFL hasn't 'ruined the rules of the game'.

Fan behavior - So.. for weeks people have been saying fan behavior is getting out of control (I disagree personally, its always been pretty bad and it's about the same now). So the media highlight a couple of aggressive peanuts who do enough to get thrown out of a ground (which would happen every other week) and now fans are planning a boycott saying the AFl are after them!! The AFL hasn't even taken direct action on anything yet!. and the 2 peanuts thrown out have both since been accused of appalling fan behavior both on the night they were ejected and in the past. anyone sprinting down to yell "bald headed flog" directly at an umpire is likely going to cause other trouble. I am all for barracking, yelling out, booing if needed, but if you want to hurl direct, targeted, abuse at umpires, players, other fans - you are going to either end up in a punch on or getting ejected.

Floating the twilight granny (who cares), doing a new logo (who cares), taking time to consider Tassie (who cares), expansion teams (who cares), slowly expanding into China (great idea, all it would take is 1 or 2 provinces to start following over the next 30 years and our commercial audience could grow by 2 million people. Worth the small cost each year to give it a go)...

I am not saying they are perfect, but they sure as hell arn't as bad as people are making out. And as for 'not listening to fans'... why would you, they are acting like bloody peanuts!! LOL
 

abcde12345

Senior List
May 15, 2018
164
303
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Can I just say.. I am so dam sick of this "ANTI AFL EVERYTHING" fan narrative that the media and peanuts on social media are driving.

IMO the AFL do a generally good job in steering the ship, full of overly passionate people that are impossible to keep happy.

The 'studs up'.. 'death of the speccy'.. outrage is a perfect example, my god, the biggest over reaction in the history of sport.

The state of the game debate. Last year they were all demanding something be done to change the game back to what it was in the 90's (never going to happen) now that some reasonably sensible measures were taken to help that, they all want them to "Leave the game alone!".

And, TBH I think there are often 4 or 5 good games a week and the league has never been more even.

People saying the AFL have ruined the game. NO. Coaches and modern tactics have changed the game, barely anything the AFL has done has directly ruined or changed the game (in comparison to the evolution of the game). Plus, game style, strategy, tough scoring duels, sports science where always going to become a factor, the 90's was fun - but lets face it, 'Pagans paddock' and 'the switch' where the only tactics in the mid 2000's - would we really not wanted the game to have evolved since then? just a big old game of kick to kick with no pressure and the same player kicking the same goal 10 times over.

Umpiring - it's a hard game to umpire. Always has been, always will be. I don't think 'contact below the knees', 'ducking rule', 'deliberate out of bounds' have been bad rules, just people getting used to them is an issue. Umpiring as a whole is frustrating but it is in most sports, try watching the NBA, where contact is almost always up to the discretion of the ref. The rule changes have been slight, umpiring is an issue, but the AFL hasn't 'ruined the rules of the game'.

Fan behavior - So.. for weeks people have been saying fan behavior is getting out of control (I disagree personally, its always been pretty bad and it's about the same now). So the media highlight a couple of aggressive peanuts who do enough to get thrown out of a ground (which would happen every other week) and now fans are planning a boycott saying the AFl are after them!! The AFL hasn't even taken direct action on anything yet!. and the 2 peanuts thrown out have both since been accused of appalling fan behavior both on the night they were ejected and in the past. anyone sprinting down to yell "bald headed flog" directly at an umpire is likely going to cause other trouble. I am all for barracking, yelling out, booing if needed, but if you want to hurl direct, targeted, abuse at umpires, players, other fans - you are going to either end up in a punch on or getting ejected.

Floating the twilight granny (who cares), doing a new logo (who cares), taking time to consider Tassie (who cares), expansion teams (who cares), slowly expanding into China (great idea, all it would take is 1 or 2 provinces to start following over the next 30 years and our commercial audience could grow by 2 million people. Worth the small cost each year to give it a go)...

I am not saying they are perfect, but they sure as hell arn't as bad as people are making out. And as for 'not listening to fans'... why would you, they are acting like bloody peanuts!! LOL
I feel exactly the same way. The amount of outrage in the AFL media and society is almost comical. I hate to imagine the literal meltdown we would experience if we had the likes of the NRL administration.

Umpiring isn't great, but I don't think it ever really has been. The fact we keep getting better imagery just highlights the mistakes more (also the way the commentators need to micro-analyse every umpiring decision I'm sure doesn't help).

I think the state of the game is as good as it has ever been. Admittedly I would be in the younger demographic, but whenever I watch the "golden days" 80s football, it just looks like unaccountable mess to me (Cutler would have excelled back then ;) ). I think most games of a weekend are pretty good, and I highly doubt there was ever a time when every game was great and none sucked. I think that's more nostalgia and less coverage at play than anything.

Fan behaviour has been crap, but again I doubt it was ever any different. Just more publicity directed towards it.

The AFL does the business stuff really well. It has definitely established itself as the tier one code across Australia. Expansion is important for the long term viability of the code. People who want the Gold Coast and GWS to fold I've noticed tend to be pretty selfish about their club, and not as concerned with the overall game. The China stuff has always been break even for the AFL and putting money directly into the clubs involved pockets, so the constant "wasting money" arguments are blatantly ridiculous.

AFLW has been a great initiative and will continue to grow, which will help the men's format in non-traditional areas too. AFLX is weird, but it's as easy as not watching it if you don't like it.

I think really it all just boils down to everyone wanting something to complain about/direct their anger towards. Probably has a lot to do with the media's influence in directing the negative narrative. I think the game is in a pretty good spot really, especially compared to the other codes in Australia.
 

lioninthesand

Premiership Player
Feb 22, 2016
3,873
6,102
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I feel exactly the same way. The amount of outrage in the AFL media and society is almost comical. I hate to imagine the literal meltdown we would experience if we had the likes of the NRL administration.

Umpiring isn't great, but I don't think it ever really has been. The fact we keep getting better imagery just highlights the mistakes more (also the way the commentators need to micro-analyse every umpiring decision I'm sure doesn't help).

I think the state of the game is as good as it has ever been. Admittedly I would be in the younger demographic, but whenever I watch the "golden days" 80s football, it just looks like unaccountable mess to me (Cutler would have excelled back then ;) ). I think most games of a weekend are pretty good, and I highly doubt there was ever a time when every game was great and none sucked. I think that's more nostalgia and less coverage at play than anything.

Fan behaviour has been crap, but again I doubt it was ever any different. Just more publicity directed towards it.

The AFL does the business stuff really well. It has definitely established itself as the tier one code across Australia. Expansion is important for the long term viability of the code. People who want the Gold Coast and GWS to fold I've noticed tend to be pretty selfish about their club, and not as concerned with the overall game. The China stuff has always been break even for the AFL and putting money directly into the clubs involved pockets, so the constant "wasting money" arguments are blatantly ridiculous.

AFLW has been a great initiative and will continue to grow, which will help the men's format in non-traditional areas too. AFLX is weird, but it's as easy as not watching it if you don't like it.

I think really it all just boils down to everyone wanting something to complain about/direct their anger towards. Probably has a lot to do with the media's influence in directing the negative narrative. I think the game is in a pretty good spot really, especially compared to the other codes in Australia.
Can we have a beer, you are the first person with a sensible, modern approach to footy I have exchanged thoughts with in at least a year. agree with everything you said. I am in my mid 30's so remember the 90's, the quality of the game was not some marvelous display as people make out, it's a mess. It was good for what it was, but I love tuning in to see what strategic approach teams take each week. I also don't care about 'scoring'.. a game can be great with 5-6 goals kicked by each teams.

I think older peoples nostalgia is the biggest issue and the fact every peanut in the world has a platform. Older generations have always HATED progression of sport, (one day cricket etc) most young people I chat with are as connected with the game as ever.
 

lioninthesand

Premiership Player
Feb 22, 2016
3,873
6,102
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I feel exactly the same way. The amount of outrage in the AFL media and society is almost comical. I hate to imagine the literal meltdown we would experience if we had the likes of the NRL administration.

Umpiring isn't great, but I don't think it ever really has been. The fact we keep getting better imagery just highlights the mistakes more (also the way the commentators need to micro-analyse every umpiring decision I'm sure doesn't help).

I think the state of the game is as good as it has ever been. Admittedly I would be in the younger demographic, but whenever I watch the "golden days" 80s football, it just looks like unaccountable mess to me (Cutler would have excelled back then ;) ). I think most games of a weekend are pretty good, and I highly doubt there was ever a time when every game was great and none sucked. I think that's more nostalgia and less coverage at play than anything.

Fan behaviour has been crap, but again I doubt it was ever any different. Just more publicity directed towards it.

The AFL does the business stuff really well. It has definitely established itself as the tier one code across Australia. Expansion is important for the long term viability of the code. People who want the Gold Coast and GWS to fold I've noticed tend to be pretty selfish about their club, and not as concerned with the overall game. The China stuff has always been break even for the AFL and putting money directly into the clubs involved pockets, so the constant "wasting money" arguments are blatantly ridiculous.

AFLW has been a great initiative and will continue to grow, which will help the men's format in non-traditional areas too. AFLX is weird, but it's as easy as not watching it if you don't like it.

I think really it all just boils down to everyone wanting something to complain about/direct their anger towards. Probably has a lot to do with the media's influence in directing the negative narrative. I think the game is in a pretty good spot really, especially compared to the other codes in Australia.
The other BIG factor is who you follow. Take note, 90% of the fans who are spewing venom on social media about the AFL and how bad everything is are nearly always fans of lowly teams or Bombers fans. You'll rarely find a cats supporter sooking about the state of them game. I was arguing with a couple of fans that were saying ''they don't even watch anymore" etc - one was a Saints fan and the other way a Blues fan. I said, if your team was competing for the top 8 you would be watching. Their displeasure with the game is because watching other teams compete is a slap in the face each week. I barely watched any other games with any passion for the last few years due to our being out of the finals race after round 6, but now, as other results means something for our position, I take a far more keen interest.
 

abcde12345

Senior List
May 15, 2018
164
303
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Can we have a beer, you are the first person with a sensible, modern approach to footy I have exchanged thoughts with in at least a year. agree with everything you said. I am in my mid 30's so remember the 90's, the quality of the game was not some marvelous display as people make out, it's a mess. It was good for what it was, but I love tuning in to see what strategic approach teams take each week. I also don't care about 'scoring'.. a game can be great with 5-6 goals kicked by each teams.

I think older peoples nostalgia is the biggest issue and the fact every peanut in the world has a platform. Older generations have always HATED progression of sport, (one day cricket etc) most young people I chat with are as connected with the game as ever.
For sure. And it definitely isn't limited to just footy. The RL community up here has a similar thing, and cricket too as you pointed out. A lot of back-in-my-day sort of stuff with all of them.
 

Crimso

Club Legend
Apr 23, 2002
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Can we have a beer, you are the first person with a sensible, modern approach to footy I have exchanged thoughts with in at least a year. agree with everything you said. I am in my mid 30's so remember the 90's, the quality of the game was not some marvelous display as people make out, it's a mess. It was good for what it was, but I love tuning in to see what strategic approach teams take each week. I also don't care about 'scoring'.. a game can be great with 5-6 goals kicked by each teams.

I think older peoples nostalgia is the biggest issue and the fact every peanut in the world has a platform. Older generations have always HATED progression of sport, (one day cricket etc) most young people I chat with are as connected with the game as ever.
Obviously a very small bubble you live in.
 

Crimso

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Apr 23, 2002
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The other BIG factor is who you follow. Take note, 90% of the fans who are spewing venom on social media about the AFL and how bad everything is are nearly always fans of lowly teams or Bombers fans. You'll rarely find a cats supporter sooking about the state of them game. I was arguing with a couple of fans that were saying ''they don't even watch anymore" etc - one was a Saints fan and the other way a Blues fan. I said, if your team was competing for the top 8 you would be watching. Their displeasure with the game is because watching other teams compete is a slap in the face each week. I barely watched any other games with any passion for the last few years due to our being out of the finals race after round 6, but now, as other results means something for our position, I take a far more keen interest.
If you stopped to have a think on it you may realise most (the greatest majority) of people spewing **** about the AFL would be 30ish & under. Us older ones, the ones that watched footy in the 90's,mgenerally have very little to do with social media and if we do there would be very few that would follow a footy club on Facebook or wherever. I'm hedging 70 and am finding it harder and harder to even come to this place. I, and a lot of the older people I talk with think the game is heading in a good direction.
 

dlanod

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Sep 14, 2006
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Just watched (what I assume to be) the 1993 Baby Bombers GF in the pub.

While I agree to an extent it also demonstrated what ********* all these extra rules about "below the knees" and "studs up" are. High contact is obvious - pay it. Holding the ball should be obvious - pay it. All these crazy variations of illegal contact that come from a single case just muddies the water.
 
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