Non Lions Discussion 2019

[Tom14]

There’s no hate; just disappointing that a few from last years draft are already way past Rayner and impacting games a lot more. Walsh has already sailed past him for starters. Time will tell, but I think Rayner will be one of the more disappointing number one picks over the past couple of decades.

Number one picks in the decade leading up to his draft I am confident Cam can go past: McGrath, Weitering, McCartin, Boyd (has played one good game), Patton, Watts. Could see an argument for McGrath and Weitering as they are still young of course

Ones I don't expect him to be better than: Whitfield, Scully.

On the fence about David Swallow and Kreuzer.

Cam was always going to take a while to be a consistent player but I'm not sure why you think he will be one of the more disappointing ones. There have been plenty of disappointing number 1 picks and it is extremely early days.

 

[jackess]

We’ll be getting more and more of these highlights each year while Carlton have Sam “vanilla” Walsh leading their midfield.

 

[M Malice]

Rayner will be a GUN, it will take time though, he wont hit his peak until he's 23-25 years of age.

 

[BangyBangy]

There’s no hate; just disappointing that a few from last years draft are already way past Rayner and impacting games a lot more. Walsh has already sailed past him for starters. Time will tell, but I think Rayner will be one of the more disappointing number one picks over the past couple of decades.

I disagree with everything you have posted there. But that's pretty standard.

Just curious, in hindsight, who would've been a better number one pick in 2017?

 

[Tom14]

There’s no hate; just disappointing that a few from last years draft are already way past Rayner and impacting games a lot more. Walsh has already sailed past him for starters. Time will tell, but I think Rayner will be one of the more disappointing number one picks over the past couple of decades.

From the 2017 draft top 10 - I'd agree Stephenson has had a more credentialled start, and Naughton looks like a great Key defender and very good forward.

The rest of them I'd argue with though - Cam's shown as much or more than Brayshaw, Dow, LDU, Cerra, Clark, Coffield and Lachie O'Brien. Even in the teens there are plenty who can't get a game and Ed Richards and Higgins would be the only 2 in the conversation. Tim Kelly obviously the best player out of the draft but he was a complete non-starter for us for obvious reasons.

Cam's never going to accumulate as many touches as Walsh who has had a good start to his career. But as jackess says we picked him because we think he can be a match winner and highlight reel - and I'm very happy we have him.

 

[Lace Out]

Rayner’s a bigger high impact player not a whippet aerobic athlete like Walsh it will take a year or two

 

[M Malice]

Jaidyn Stephenson was great last season but he has been way down on that form this season. He has what is commonly called the 2nd season syndrome.

 

[BangyBangy]

Jaidyn Stephenson was great last season but he has been way down on that form this season. He has what is commonly called the 2nd season syndrome.

Or does the team being a little down on form have more to do with it? Didn't watch a hell of a lot of him last year, so others can fill me in. A great highlight reel for sure. Was he a good finisher off the back of the hard work of others?

 

[BRAB]

Or does the team being a little down on form have more to do with it? Didn't watch a hell of a lot of him last year, so others can fill me in. A great highlight reel for sure. Was he a good finisher off the back of the hard work of others?

Stephenson mastered the cheapy out the back last season.

 

[bungalow_bill]

For all those hoping to steal Walsh after 2 seasons ....

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...5GOEG5PmEshpTASK0vy43UAliO33kdojO8UJz279hMp5o

Contract extensions mean very little. This sounds more like a PR exercise for a club badly in need of good news. Will probably stay but not because of the contract but because he seems like a loyal guy

 

[bungalow_bill]

We’ll be getting more and more of these highlights each year while Carlton have Sam “vanilla” Walsh leading their midfield.

Were probably a lot of players from 2009 performing better than Dusty in 2010. If Rayner reaches his potential could be one of the best in the comp.

 

[Lace Out]

This is the thing if you must compare both,Rayner held his own marking in the middle of packs with big seasoned defenders @ 19 years of age..I don’t think it finishes here

 

[Sausages]

We haven't really had a player like Rayner before - not with his combo of size and power, who plays forward and through the middle (although his endurance isn't good enough yet to do that for a full game)

The best I can find as a comparison is Luke Power - he was also 18 when he debuted, was about 10kgs lighter and a few cms shorter - but started off playing up forward and running through the middle - and it's the positional combo that I'm using here, a player who plays up forward and can run through the middle for a bit, as opposed to JUST size.

Across Power's first 25 games (Rayner has played 26) he was at:

Disposals - 360
Goals - 20
Marks - 70
Tackles - 34

Rayner in his first 25 games (so not counting last weekend):

Disposals - 328
Goals - 25
Marks - 86
Tackles - 59

He's going ok, for a second year player, in a team that doesn't feature the same people that Power had around him when he started (Power started in 98). Yeah, he's a #1 pick (Power was pick 5), and is bigger and stronger than Power ever was. But he's doing pretty well overall.

*edit - I looked up Chris Scott too, who started off playing forward in 93 (as he's the only other player I can think of who was close to Cam's size, but maybe one of our Royboys would know of a Fitzroy player of similar size to compare) - Cam's stats measure up better in terms of goals and tackles, fewer marks and similar disposals.

 

[Jivlain]

Very confident about Rayner, he's got a lot of development left to go.

 

[royboys4eva]

Rayner will be a star in time but right now he looks a touch slow - is he still carrying that injury he got from the North match? Certainly needs to work harder. Rest assured having a guy like Luke Hodge at the club is perfect for scenarios like this. He will be letting Cam know what he has to do to get better on and off the ground.

 

[M Malice]

The boys On the Couch last night gave the Crows a hell of a baking, if they lose at home to the Suns this weekend it'll be a crucifixion next week.

I also loved the Jono Brown wildebeest story from just before our glory years.

 

[Dylan12]

I also loved the Jono Brown wildebeest story from just before our glory years.

Despite three wins, I reckon there’d only be about half a dozen players in the Lions column to date: Neale, McCluggage, Robinson, Rich, McInerney and possibly Martin / McCarthy. Sure others have played well in patches but many are well down their usual output.

That in of itself is a positive given we’ve been winning yet there is still so much room for improvement in many of the lads.

 

[knaf]

Despite three wins, I reckon there’d only be about half a dozen players in the Lions column to date: Neale, McCluggage, Robinson, Rich, McInerney and possibly Martin / McCarthy. Sure others have played well in patches but many are well down their usual output.

That in of itself is a positive given we’ve been winning yet there is still so much room for improvement in many of the lads.

Always dangerous to agree withD12, but in this case i do. As supporters I think we got a long way ahead of ourselves with three wins, which is forgivable after the last ten years. The 22 we put on the field in the first four weeks is not strong enough or deep enough to take us ideep into the finals. Yes I know this is the positive thread, three wins so far reflects well on the commitment of the players, the nous of the coach and the processes we are putting in place.

There is plenty of scope for development with the younger players. However I think the coaches need to start rotating players in so they can make judgements on the ability of players to perform at the required level and/performing their required role for sustained periods. Lots to like in the NEAFL.

Staying positive I will be happy with ten wins this season.

Ps ok this isn’t the positive thread. I blame D 12.

 

[Tom14]

Always dangerous to agree withD12, but in this case i do. As supporters I think we got a long way ahead of ourselves with three wins, which is forgivable after the last ten years. The 22 we put on the field in the first four weeks is not strong enough or deep enough to take us ideep into the finals. Yes I know this is the positive thread, three wins so far reflects well on the commitment of the players, the nous of the coach and the processes we are putting in place.

There is plenty of scope for development with the younger players. However I think the coaches need to start rotating players in so they can make judgements on the ability of players to perform at the required level and/performing their required role for sustained periods. Lots to like in the NEAFL.

Staying positive I will be happy with ten wins this season.

Ps ok this isn’t the positive thread. I blame D 12.

Its actually the 'non-lions discussion thread'

By the way I don't think the view that we still have a long way to go is unreasonable at all - I just think that we shouldn't limit our expectations just yet. If we get to round 14 or so and we only have 6-7 wins, then yeah that's the time to rotate and see what we've got.

But if we are any chance at all of scraping in to the finals I don't want us to sacrifice our chances by rotating for rotation's sake. I think the benefit of playing a final for our young group would be massive, even if we weren't a realistic chance of progressing past the first week.

 

[Dalions]

Its actually the 'non-lions discussion thread'

By the way I don't think the view that we still have a long way to go is unreasonable at all - I just think that we shouldn't limit our expectations just yet. If we get to round 14 or so and we only have 6-7 wins, then yeah that's the time to rotate and see what we've got.

But if we are any chance at all of scraping in to the finals I don't want us to sacrifice our chances by rotating for rotation's sake. I think the benefit of playing a final for our young group would be massive, even if we weren't a realistic chance of progressing past the first week.

The inevitable rotations will happen because injuries will also happen!
We will find a few of those boys that are performing well at the lower level come in and I wouldn’t be surprised to see one on Thursday Night!

 

[patfullfankezz]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/h...s/news-story/15dd46e7f8a61f7793753442510d1a76

Funnily enough I don't hear the Lions whinging. Bloody Vic teams!

 

[Ironmonger]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/h...s/news-story/15dd46e7f8a61f7793753442510d1a76

Funnily enough I don't hear the Lions whinging. Bloody Vic teams!

It feels like there's been a shift in the media's approach to Clarkson. It wasn't long ago that any criticism he made of the league or any rules dominated discussion for a few days. Now it seems to fade into the background a little.

Diminishing returns.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I care for the opinions of coaches on rules to improve the watchability of the game about as much as I care about multinational corporations commenting on rules to make tax policy fairer.

I.e. I care not much at all. Don’t trust them.

 

[carnthemlions]

Has Brad Scott ever considered shutting the * up? The number of footy fans (North supporters included) who actually like the guy would have to be in single figures by now.

 

[CarterS]

Rayner lacking in confidence a little, has missed a couple of shots for goal at important times and dropped his head a bit. He will be fine. Totally different player to Walsh, apples and oranges. Great research there Snags.