Non-Lions discussion 2021

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Dalions

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Aug 12, 2016
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His club captain has cancer and is immunocompromised. It is very selfish to not getvaccinated when you may be in close contact with someone who is unable to protect themselves and are at a higher risk.

Good riddance imo.
He has just retired, so won’t be around them, unless, by their choice to see him.
 

Hollow Knight

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Smoking is an interesting one both my father RIP and my Aunt were lifetime heavy smokers, my dad passed in 2013 form AML, apparently his lungs were fine.

My 85 year old aunt has recently moved into an aged care dementia unit and went cold turkey off smokes, after a lifetime of smoking and decades of having a smokers cough/flem etc her lungs are the least of her problems, breathing fantastically with no coughing etc.
Statistically insignificent anecdotes are far from interesting when discussing issues like this.
 

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BangyBangy

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Smoking is an interesting one both my father RIP and my Aunt were lifetime heavy smokers, my dad passed in 2013 form AML, apparently his lungs were fine.

My 85 year old aunt has recently moved into an aged care dementia unit and went cold turkey off smokes, after a lifetime of smoking and decades of having a smokers cough/flem etc her lungs are the least of her problems, breathing fantastically with no coughing etc.
Yep, and George Burns made it to 100 smoking. No doubt genetic predisposition is a major factor.

If someone's happy playing the odds, good luck to them.
 

BRAB

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Statistically insignificent anecdotes are far from interesting when discussing issues like this.
Interestingly enough I think one of the big issues with vaccine hesitancy is people using statistically insignificant personal anecdotes about the impacts of the vaccine.

There's clearly a disconnect between the medical community and that last 15% of the population that aren't getting it and I'm genuinely at a loss as to how you bridge that.
 

martinson

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Thanks for the advice HK, I shall take my rebuke in good spirit and skulk off back to my little corner of existence.
I will add M Malice that we all have ourselves and our family to consider and at the end of the day our personal anecdotes are paramount. To each of us.

We can take those as the most important examples of what can occur and still believe that they're outliers and understand that they're not the norm.

Which is what I think you intended.
 

Hollow Knight

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There's clearly a disconnect between the medical community and that last 15% of the population that aren't getting it and I'm genuinely at a loss as to how you bridge that.
Misinformation, and peoples receptiveness to it, is the biggest problem.

A situation like Covid is too complex for some people, and it is more comforting for those people to have a simpler fairy tale narrative to explain it. A clear villain in the form of China, Bill Gates, a corporate conspiracy, Michelle Obama's secret penis or child sex traffickers is a much more digestible scenario for a lot of people. Why would I take a medically proven vaccine created to make money for BigPharma.... when I can instead take this medically unproven Joe Rogan endorsed livestock dewormer made by.... BigPharma....

For others, junk science is just more appealing for various reasons. It comes in a digestible meme or andecdote format spruiked by pretty reality TV hosts and is light on the big words and statistics.

Maybe they should read the HermanCainAward subreddit... but even quite a few of them will be immune to such a sharp dose of reality.
 
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BangyBangy

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Interestingly enough I think one of the big issues with vaccine hesitancy is people using statistically insignificant personal anecdotes about the impacts of the vaccine.

There's clearly a disconnect between the medical community and that last 15% of the population that aren't getting it and I'm genuinely at a loss as to how you bridge that.
Maybe the media have played just a little role in all this. The majority of the population who have no health issues from taking a vaccine...... meh that's a pretty boring story.

However the person who gets a blood clot & dies after taking Astra Zeneca, that's a sexy story.
 

M Malice

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I will add M Malice that we all have ourselves and our family to consider and at the end of the day our personal anecdotes are paramount. To each of us.

We can take those as the most important examples of what can occur and still believe that they're outliers and understand that they're not the norm.

Which is what I think you intended.
Exactly.... and my statistically insignificant anecdote was in no way meant to be linked to the Covid discussion, it was in reply to a BangyBangy post about a smoker he knew.
 

martinson

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Misinformation, and peoples receptiveness to it, is the biggest problem.

A situation like Covid is too complex for some people, and it is more comforting for those people to have a simpler fairy tale narrative to explain it. A clear villain in the form of China, Bill Gates, a corporate conspiracy, Michelle Obama's secret penis or child sex traffickers is a much more digestible scenario for a lot of people.

For others, junk science is just more appealing for various reasons. It comes in a digestible meme or andecdote format spruiked by pretty reality TV hosts and is light on the big words and statistics.

Maybe they should read the HermanCainAward subreddit... but even quite a few of them will be immune to such a sharp dose of reality.
I know people who aren't keen on the vaccine who aren't into any conspiracy theories, or are anti vaxers ,and are intelligent ,rational people.

Most of them are taking it because their lives will be disrupted if they don't but one or two just aren't convinced enough re the absence of any longer term effects.

They're not pushing a cause or protesting about it , it's a decision based on their understanding of the facts. Misguided though that may be.
 

Hollow Knight

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I know people who aren't keen on the vaccine who aren't into any conspiracy theories, or are anti vaxers ,and are intelligent ,rational people.

Most of them are taking it because their lives will be disrupted if they don't but one or two just aren't convinced enough re the absence of any longer term effects.

They're not pushing a cause or protesting about it , it's a decision based on their understanding of the facts. Misguided though that may be.
Fair to say I am probably referring more to the "Unvaccinated Sperm is the new Bitcoin" people than I am the people you are talking about.
 

BangyBangy

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Fair to say I am probably referring more to the "Unvaccinated Sperm is the new Bitcoin" people than I am the people you are talking about.
I've noticed my 5G signal strength has significantly improved since getting my 2nd Pfizer jab. My browsing speed is now next level.

I see no downside at all.

Well aside from a selection of my daily activities now triggering windows audio grabs inside my head. Bloody Bill Gates.
 

Dalions

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I've noticed my 5G signal strength has significantly improved since getting my 2nd Pfizer jab. My browsing speed is now next level.

I see no downside at all.

Well aside from a selection of my daily activities now triggering windows audio grabs inside my head. Bloody Bill Gates.
On top of the fact that you are now an Alien with altered DNA.
 

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Crimso

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I've noticed my 5G signal strength has significantly improved since getting my 2nd Pfizer jab. My browsing speed is now next level.

I see no downside at all.

Well aside from a selection of my daily activities now triggering windows audio grabs inside my head. Bloody Bill Gates.
Well I’m pissed because I was eager for better reception but after two AZ’s nothing has changed!
Maybe the wind is blowing the chemtrails away.
 

dlanod

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I do actually wonder whether the mandate was the best public health approach. It might end up making more people dig their heels in as you've said.

Will be an interesting case study in a few years.
Some may dig in their heels more, but I doubt we would've hit 90%+ without the strong incentives of "no pub" or "no job" with the mandates.
 

BangyBangy

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Some may dig in their heels more, but I doubt we would've hit 90%+ without the strong incentives of "no pub" or "no job" with the mandates.
Yep, I agree.

Given a choice though I would still vote against it as I believe in a free country. I might be in the minority though.

But it's a moot point, as we haven't been given a choice in the matter.
 

martinson

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Some may dig in their heels more, but I doubt we would've hit 90%+ without the strong incentives of "no pub" or "no job" with the mandates.
Of that there is no doubt.

Whether that's sound public policy or bullying the proof will ultimately be in the pudding.

I'm almost already due a booster. So that's the next thing.

Then I was reading about a rollout on 5-12 year olds.

So I trust they've got it right.
 

martinson

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I live in NSW.

Repeated days back in the 150-300 case range argues that the proof is in the pudding and it's delicious.
I think that's true and likely attributable but we need a lot more time to elapse before jumping to any ultimate conclusions.

I won't bore everybody by elaborating on why I'm a little cautious but in the short term it's worked , and they had no other options.

We probably need 4 or 5 years to assess properly, unless everything goes swimmingly in the next year or two. Australia's uptake trajectory is heading towards becoming the most vaccinated country interestingly enough. So despite the anti vaxer talk go to the US ,UK or several other prominent places to see real dissention.

Someone may come up with a drug in the meantime.
 

Section 5

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Nov 26, 2018
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It was Liam's decision to retire so that's fine. I wonder it their was some sort of payout by Carlton with AFL approval.
That at least frees up a list spot i imagine.
Reportedly (foxsports) Carlton had to pay him $150k (usually $500K) to be placed on the inactive list if he stayed and fulfilled his contract

It's not like Covid is the only new vaccine available to Australians recently.
It's just that all/most of us needed to take it for health reasons and for life to hopefully get back to something that resembles normal
You will never get 100% vaccine take-up

Usually they come in intervals during your healthy lifetime and others when needed
Vaccines come out often. Most always it is a new yearly flu vaccine. However no new flu vaccine was mentioned in 2021
Below new/improved vaccine list from the last 3 years excluding the obvious (to me anyhow) flu vaccine.
List taken from this site which goes back to 1804 when Smallpox vaccine was sourced from England. Was ceased in 1980

https://www.health.vic.gov.au/immunisation/vaccine-history-timeline


2019
April

Nimenrix® (quadrivalent meningococcal ACWY vaccine) introduced on the National Immunisation Program as a secondary school based program for Year 10 students and eligible persons aged 15-19 years who have not already received the vaccine.

Boostrix® or Adacel® (dTpa vaccine)-pertussis containing vaccine for pregnant women from 20-32 weeks gestation for every pregnancy (reduced from 28 weeks).

MMR vaccine in special circumstances has been lowered from 9 months to 6 months of age. Infants as young as 6 months of age can receive MMR vaccine for travel to highly endemic areas, during outbreaks and as post-exposure prophylaxis.

June
Havrix 1440® (hepatitis A vaccine) - Victorian Government funded two dose course for all men who have sex with men, homeless people sleeping rough, adult prisoners and people who have injected drugs in the past 12 months. Ceased 30 June 2019.

August
MMR vaccine - Infants from 6 months of age can receive a Victorian government funded free dose of MMR vaccine for overseas travel.

October

Gardasil® (human papillomavirus vaccine) for all men who have sex with men aged up to 26 years. Ceased 31 October 2019
.....................................................
2020

July


  • Ceasing Pneumovax 23 for healthy non-Indigenous adults at 65 years of age
  • Commencing Prevenar 13 for healthy non-Indigenous adults ≥70 years of age
  • Commencing Prevenar 13 for Indigenous adults at ≥50 years of age plus Pneumovax 23 x 2 doses in a lifetime
  • Commencing Prevenar 13 for >12 months of age (including adolescents and adults) with newly diagnosed risk conditions plus Pneumovax 23 x 2 doses in a lifetime
  • New National Immunisation Program eligibility criteria for risk conditions.
Bexsero® (Meningococcal B vaccine)

All Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander infants aged 2 months (from 6 weeks), 4 months and 12 months
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children less than 2 years of age - Catch up vaccine program until June 2023

Prevenar 13®, Pneumovax 23®, Nimenrix®, Bexsero®, ActHIB® on the National Immunisation Program for people of all ages with:

functional or anatomical asplenia, including sickle cell disease or other haemoglobinopathies, and congenital or acquired asplenia.

2021

February


Comirnaty® (Pfizer) COVID-19 vaccine

  • recommended for all eligible people ≥12 years to protect against COVID-19 disease.
March

Vaxzevria® (AstraZeneca) COVID-19 vaccine

  • recommended for all eligible people ≥18 years to protect against COVID-19 disease.
September

Spikevax® (Moderna) COVID-19 vaccine

  • recommended for all eligible people aged ≥12 years to protect against COVID-19 disease.
October

Zostavax® (Herpes Zoster) catch-up vaccine program for people aged 71 to 79 years extended until 31 October 2023.
 

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
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I was honestly shocked when I had a kid and found out they had vaccines for chicken pox now.
My daughter had a baby 18 months ago and she would not let anyone visit hospital or home unless they had a whopping cough vaccine or booster shot
I believe it was called Tdap- Tetanus, Diphtheria and Pertussis
Up until that time i never thought about getting the vaccine but quickly arranged the shot
 

Dalions

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My daughter had a baby 18 months ago and she would not let anyone visit hospital or home unless they had a whopping cough vaccine or booster shot
I believe it was called Tdap- Tetanus, Diphtheria and Pertussis
Up until that time i never thought about getting the vaccine but quickly arranged the shot
Wish I had a whooping cough vax/booster when we had kids.
I got it, thought I was going to die, wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy.
Picked up Parvovirus too, it was just as bad.
 

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