Non-Lions discussion 2021

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luthor

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Oct 13, 2001
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My daughter had a baby 18 months ago and she would not let anyone visit hospital or home unless they had a whopping cough vaccine or booster shot
I believe it was called Tdap- Tetanus, Diphtheria and Pertussis
Up until that time i never thought about getting the vaccine but quickly arranged the shot

Similar situation here.

Daughter and niece both have had two babies each over the last 4 years.

No Whooping cough vaccine, no see our babies.


I could have been a total dick and adopted a "no one tells me what I get injected with" policy but who wants to be a dick?

....and as my local GP told me, .....the incidence of whooping cough has been extremely rare for many years

"but do you want to be the statistical one in a million people who passes on this to an infant?"

I got the shot without reservation
 

luthor

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I know people who aren't keen on the vaccine who aren't into any conspiracy theories, or are anti vaxers ,and are intelligent ,rational people.
I worked with a chap about 25 years ago who was a very intelligent, rational and sane human being

One of the nicest and most obliging people I have ever met.

He also had an unshakable conviction that EVERY SINGLE word of the Bible was literally true.

Adam and Eve, the Earth , the Universe and everything being created by God in 7 days 6,000 years ago etc...etc.

Even had some little handbook that "proved" it because of some weird numerological confluence of all the verses of the Old Testament being exactly divisible 7 or 13 or something or other.

When i thought I had defeated his philosophy by pointing out that there were many versions of the Bible and it would all depend on which version you were sourcing, his retort was stunningly simple............ HIS version taught by HIS church was the only true one and every other one was the work of Lucifer.

Hard to argue against that line of circular "reasoning"

Dogma and blind belief infect even the rational amongst us
 

lionraven

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Feb 17, 2016
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Vaccine mandates are absolutely necessary. I work in health care and in my opinion lots of people are lazy asses who rarely do the bare minimum for their own health. If thereis a choice between doing absolutely nothing or taking an action, lots of people choose doing nothing just out of pure laziness. A lot of children were missing their vaccinations because parents were too lazy to take their kids to a doctor. No jab no pay policy has helped lift childhood vaccination rates up. I doubt we would reach more than 70 percent vax rate if we didn't make it a massive pain in the arse for the unvaccinated. Anecdotally international flying is what is motivating my age group peers.
 

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POBT

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Mar 10, 2004
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Similar situation here.

Daughter and niece both have had two babies each over the last 4 years.

No Whooping cough vaccine, no see our babies.


I could have been a total dick and adopted a "no one tells me what I get injected with" policy but who wants to be a dick?

....and as my local GP told me, .....the incidence of whooping cough has been extremely rare for many years

"but do you want to be the statistical one in a million people who passes on this to an infant?"

I got the shot without reservation
This is such a good example of why I think the "freedom of choice" crew have got it wrong. You had a choice. The choice to be vaccinated and participate in your daughter and grand-child's life or to remain unvaccinated. No-one held you down and stuck a needle in your arm.

Society is built on conditional participation. There is no right to absolute choice. When you choice to participate in a part of life you do so on the rules set by society and in accordance with the established norms. Vaccination as a condition of certain social or work activities might be a new norm but it doesn't change the fact that society is entitled to create it.
 

Section 5

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Nov 26, 2018
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With vaccines i think society in general are pretty good at doing the right thing
As i previously mentioned "Usually they come in intervals during your healthy lifetime and others when needed"
Very early in life your parents/guardians make the health decision for you
As a young adult you may miss some until you have to travel/work in an area that requires you to get certain vaccines
Then the unlucky ones that need some vaccine for health reasons that don't affect big numbers in the general population
When you have children it starts all over again but usually with better/more vaccines available
All of these occasions come along slowly during our life cycle and don't put pressure on the health & work sectors

Luckily Pandemics are rare (so far) and no Country is prepared properly.
So, you do your best to keep people safe and get on with life in general as best you can
Things are looking better for Australia but their will be ups and downs for some years until better vaccines/treatments arrive, or covid 19 dies out
 

knaf

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Mar 15, 2008
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I worked with a chap about 25 years ago who was a very intelligent, rational and sane human being

One of the nicest and most obliging people I have ever met.

He also had an unshakable conviction that EVERY SINGLE word of the Bible was literally true.

Adam and Eve, the Earth , the Universe and everything being created by God in 7 days 6,000 years ago etc...etc.

Even had some little handbook that "proved" it because of some weird numerological confluence of all the verses of the Old Testament being exactly divisible 7 or 13 or something or other.

When i thought I had defeated his philosophy by pointing out that there were many versions of the Bible and it would all depend on which version you were sourcing, his retort was stunningly simple............ HIS version taught by HIS church was the only true one and every other one was the work of Lucifer.

Hard to argue against that line of circular "reasoning"

Dogma and blind belief infect even the rational amongst us
Now I don’t want to take this discussion down another rabbit hole ……. But I am going to anyway.
It doesn’t surprise me that people hold on to irrational conspiracies theories. It took me 65 years to overcome the brain washing I received as a child. I now don’t believe in some sort of superhuman “man” who knows everything and will give you what you want if you ask nicely.
Sometimes I still wish it was true, but it does worry me that so many people in power still believe the myth.
 

lionraven

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Feb 17, 2016
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This is such a good example of why I think the "freedom of choice" crew have got it wrong. You had a choice. The choice to be vaccinated and participate in your daughter and grand-child's life or to remain unvaccinated. No-one held you down and stuck a needle in your arm.

Society is built on conditional participation. There is no right to absolute choice. When you choice to participate in a part of life you do so on the rules set by society and in accordance with the established norms. Vaccination as a condition of certain social or work activities might be a new norm but it doesn't change the fact that society is entitled to create it.
Passive smoking is a recognised health risk which we have heavily legislated against with rules around pubs/clubs/public smoking. Getting COVID from a close contact in an indoor setting (just 15 minutes!) is a lot more likely than getting lung cancer from passive smoking for 15 minutes. Dying from COVID is also more likely than dying from passive smoking induced emphysema or lung cancer. These vaccine mandates are being politicised overseas as some form of 'woke culture' or 'cancel culture' etc by propagandists and fear-mongers looking to make a profit off of social media clicks. Vaccine mandates, isolation and quarantine are very old school public health measures done for the better part of a 100 years. The only thing thats different is that we have social media to now create these large echo-chambers that amplify certain voices which makes vaccine hesitancy look a lot larger than it actually is. The majority of people will get the vaccine if push comes to shove. They would rather have the option of doing nothing as it appeals to our natural laziness (and misinterpretation of risk as doing doing nothing is seen as 0 risk when in fact it is more risk than taking the vaccine). Its very rare for people to outright believe in the conspiracies and reject vaccines. Thats what makes the Liam Jones story so sensational. Very few people would be willing to leave 100s of thousands of dollars on the table to avoid a vaccine. Im just glad there is a bipartisan agreement on vaccines. If we stooped to US level politics here we would be stuck in a quagmire with thousands of preventable deaths as the virus becomes endemic in Australia.
 

dlanod

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Sep 14, 2006
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Wish I had a whooping cough vax/booster when we had kids.
I got it, thought I was going to die, wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy.
Probably shared this anecdote before, but whopping cough is horrific. I had had the vaccine, still got it - no sleep for about two weeks and coughing so hard I threw up on myself while driving to get medicine.
 

briztoon

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Nov 28, 2015
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Had whooping cough and glandular fever in the one year at school. Wiped out year 8, think I spent maybe 4 or 6 weeks at school that year.
 

Dalions

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Aug 12, 2016
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Probably shared this anecdote before, but whopping cough is horrific. I had had the vaccine, still got it - no sleep for about two weeks and coughing so hard I threw up on myself while driving to get medicine.
My thing was feinting.
Every time I had a coughing attack within seconds I was seeing stars and drfting out of consciousness. Made it impossible to drive safely.
It was for about 6 to 7 weeks for me.

I don’t remember us ever being advised of getting a whooping cough booster when the wife was pregnant so it just never entered our minds.
 

BangyBangy

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Oct 16, 2013
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This is such a good example of why I think the "freedom of choice" crew have got it wrong. You had a choice. The choice to be vaccinated and participate in your daughter and grand-child's life or to remain unvaccinated. No-one held you down and stuck a needle in your arm.

Society is built on conditional participation. There is no right to absolute choice. When you choice to participate in a part of life you do so on the rules set by society and in accordance with the established norms. Vaccination as a condition of certain social or work activities might be a new norm but it doesn't change the fact that society is entitled to create it.
Yep agree with that POBT. If we all got a say & got to vote on something pretty important like that then society would've had a say. Maybe we could tack on a referendum question as part of the upcoming federal election.
 

POBT

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Yep agree with that POBT. If we all got a say & got to vote on something pretty important like that then society would've had a say. Maybe we could tack on a referendum question as part of the upcoming federal election.
A referendum goes to constitutional changes, which isn't what's required here (no matter what some of the conspiracy theorists think). We could have a plebiscite but it is non-binding. I would agree with a plebiscite if we were making vaccinations mandatory but we're not. We're restricting some activities to those who are vaccinated. I think we elect representatives to make those kind of decisions.
 

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jackess

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Aug 10, 2005
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No where near the same calibre of player. Suns might have been hoping this would happen, moves a bit of coin off their books doesn't it?
Arguable at the time of delisting. Greenwood at least wasn’t playing reserves.

They’ll have plenty of spare salary cap with all the kids wanting out after another sh*t season next year
 

PTizzle

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I reckon they very much would've wanted to keep Greenwood. Had become a very solid player for them and wanted to be there, worked hard defensively etc. That's the risk you take though.
 

dlanod

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I reckon they very much would've wanted to keep Greenwood. Had become a very solid player for them and wanted to be there, worked hard defensively etc. That's the risk you take though.
If they really did want to keep the player, why wouldn't they have done it with a delisting candidate instead?
 

Tom14

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Oct 13, 2015
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If they really did want to keep the player, why wouldn't they have done it with a delisting candidate instead?
Its a fair question. I would say that from the reporting I've seen so far the Suns did try and work something out with Greenwood by the time the North interest became apparent, but by then it was too late and North are offering more years.

Probably on their part the Suns might have thought that Greenwood's salary would deter most teams given restricted caps and list spots, but North have been very scorched earth in delisting players the last 2 years and would have more $ than most teams.
 

Tom14

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Arguable at the time of delisting. Greenwood at least wasn’t playing reserves.

They’ll have plenty of spare salary cap with all the kids wanting out after another sh*t season next year
JL's a better player and he was younger at the time. That one was a deliberately stupid decision from Dew, this is more gross negligence.

Greenwood is no star but he'll be good depth and leadership for North.
 

Gibbo_88

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Jan 19, 2009
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Similar situation here.

Daughter and niece both have had two babies each over the last 4 years.

No Whooping cough vaccine, no see our babies.


I could have been a total dick and adopted a "no one tells me what I get injected with" policy but who wants to be a dick?

....and as my local GP told me, .....the incidence of whooping cough has been extremely rare for many years

"but do you want to be the statistical one in a million people who passes on this to an infant?"

I got the shot without reservation
I ended up with whooping cough in 2009, GP I went to didn't test for it initially because I'd had the vaccine and my symptoms didn't entirely match up with it. Turns out I was getting around for a month or so with it and there was a significant number of cases that year in....northern NSW.
 

PTizzle

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If they really did want to keep the player, why wouldn't they have done it with a delisting candidate instead?
I might be unclear but I had assumed they wanted to get him onto the rookie list as they could use it for salary cap relief? He may have been willing where other players weren't.

There's definitely a bit of personal bias because I think he's a very solid player but I can't imagine why they would want to get rid of him at this stage.
 

Cubs2Lions

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Jan 12, 2021
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Greenwood is no star but he'll be good depth and leadership for North.
I bet Nobes had a massive say & influence on wanting to get him to the club to help bolster midfield depth/leadership over at North Melbourne, given the fact that Greenwood was playing of the Crows when Noble was still in Adelaide as Head of Football and also when we had interest in getting him as that big bodied midfielder while Nobes with us as GM before going for the cheaper option with CEY instead.

Great overall pick-up for North Melbourne though to help build that midfield depth and club leadership over there while for the Suns, well lets just say I didn't think they could get any lower then this with their overall trading strategy when they gave us Lyons for free, but hey here we are with what might just be another dumb decision by possibly the most incompetent club in the AFL ever.

Feel sorry in a way for the supporters over at the Gold Coast though, who have to experience this sort of crap for 11 years now.
 

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