Non-Lions discussion 2021

Remove this Banner Ad

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
44,726
61,983
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
I'm surprised; I actually agree with you for a change and have often thought the same. ;)

Old Harry, who I distinctly recall playing footy with Claremont has found a pretty unique way of playing the victim with little substance, other than him saying so. I've often wondered whether the likes of Anthony Corrie, Daniel Wells, Leon Davis, Travis Varcoe etc. have ever felt the way Harry does, because none of have ever come and out said anything.

That's not to say that Collingwood or certain individuals at Collingwood aren't guilty of their handling of certain issues.
Davis has a few times. Krakeour backed him up too.
 

Gadzorks

Premium Gold
Oct 23, 2015
5,430
8,090
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Still isn’t going to be enough for people who bought into the Collingwood and crew ‘Harry O’Brien has some mental health problems, it’s not us being mean’ proproganda.

I noticed today that Peter Helliar’s comments have been replayed and he has apologised. Really appalling how many people who had no inside knowledge were prepared to sink the boot in, and some still are
 

Dizzle

As seen on the internet
Jun 6, 2009
544
1,715
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I can see the basis for your position - but my question was "what was his incentive for taking part in the Collingwood inquiry?"

If he is full of crap, there's obviously no reason to take part.

If he isn't full of crap, I still think there's obviously no reason to take part - he would have no faith in Collingwood actually doing the right thing (which has been proven out given the report was not going to be released) and worst case his participation could be used to handwave away any actual issues.

There's stuff you can hold against him, but I don't think this is one of them.
I mean if you've been asked for, and given your opinion and version of events many times - and variously been ignored / lambasted / scoffed at by the media and your work colleagues, I would be very much inclined to refuse to take part in what was a 'Club organised investigation'. The same club that (at least Heritier believes) screwed him over time and again.

And if the report was never leaked, would the club have ever released it? If not, then Heritier submitting to another cross-examination would have been pointless yet again.

At least I would think Heritier could point at his prior interviews and articles and say 'it's all there. wade through it'.

I actually believe that the fact they found systemic racism and a culture of cover-ups and punishing any accusers, WITHOUT consulting the primary source of such previous accusations, as even more damning for the club.

I didn't like the guy before. J Brown pulling his hair was one of the funnier moments of the last dozen or so years, but I sure feel sorry for him. Seems he has been royally screwed over by a group of bullies joining ranks against the 'little guy'. And you cannot make the assumption that it wasn't due to his race or skin colour.

With this and the Treloar etc cull, is Collingwood still an Employer of Choice anymore? Will that change while Eddie os still around?
 

Log in to remove this ad.

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
13,764
13,932
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Yes I don’t like the guy and that’s a lot to do with some of his comments in the past proving he’s prone to spewing BS.

It’s very easy to make claims but it’s another to actually back those claims up. At this point Harry has said a lot but has he actually proven anything?

The woke brigade throw out a lot of accusations without any need to have facts behind them.
You say “woke” as if it’s an insult or a negative.

I don’t understand this.

I won’t pretend I understand everything to do with being “woke”, but my understanding is that it’s a positive, that you know and understand issues and problems with and in societies.

To understand these issues and what is wrong with society, but to then rail against those trying to do good, that is the negative.

That is being a denier, to help perpetuate the inequalities in society.


My first thought after reading the posts from Full Wingspan, was that he works in the legal profession, and he’s offering his experience on how this process might work legally.

I don’t understand how you can say Full Wingspan is questioning the integrity of authors of the report.

That’s making assumptions about Full Wingspan there, something you accused him or her of doing.

If I was to make a couple of assumptions, it would be that Full Wingspan knows exactly what he’s talking about, has read the report, and has looked at the cv’s of the author’s of the report.
 

Gadzorks

Premium Gold
Oct 23, 2015
5,430
8,090
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I mean if you've been asked for, and given your opinion and version of events many times - and variously been ignored / lambasted / scoffed at by the media and your work colleagues, I would be very much inclined to refuse to take part in what was a 'Club organised investigation'. The same club that (at least Heritier believes) screwed him over time and again.

And if the report was never leaked, would the club have ever released it? If not, then Heritier submitting to another cross-examination would have been pointless yet again.

At least I would think Heritier could point at his prior interviews and articles and say 'it's all there. wade through it'.

I actually believe that the fact they found systemic racism and a culture of cover-ups and punishing any accusers, WITHOUT consulting the primary source of such previous accusations, as even more damning for the club.

I didn't like the guy before. J Brown pulling his hair was one of the funnier moments of the last dozen or so years, but I sure feel sorry for him. Seems he has been royally screwed over by a group of bullies joining ranks against the 'little guy'. And you cannot make the assumption that it wasn't due to his race or skin colour.

With this and the Treloar etc cull, is Collingwood still an Employer of Choice anymore? Will that change while Eddie os still around?
In my opinion with Eddie still around no A grade players will trade in unless ridiculous dollars are offered and it seems they are all out of those. As Charlie, Neale , Daniher etc have said - the lions culture is a big plus in their reason for trading in.

And minority group draftees might be reluctant to go there, and we all know they are more willing to make their opinions heard nowadays.
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
13,764
13,932
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Still isn’t going to be enough for people who bought into the Collingwood and crew ‘Harry O’Brien has some mental health problems, it’s not us being mean’ proproganda.

I noticed today that Peter Helliar’s comments have been replayed and he has apologised. Really appalling how many people who had no inside knowledge were prepared to sink the boot in, and some still are
As was mentioned on a podcast today, Helliar is a Collingwood member and one time employee.
 

BangyBangy

BangyBangyMightyLoins
Oct 16, 2013
2,644
6,120
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
So hypothetically, if I was to say, 'I wish the main victim of the systemic racism at Collingwood was a more likeable person' is that bad?

Asking for a friend.

Maybe it's best in this instance that Heritier is such a divisive character, because if you have a look at so many comments on his tweets you'll start to get an idea of just how average 'Joe Average' is in Australia in terms of hatred and racial vilification.

But a part of me still wishes I was barracking for someone that I also liked.
 

Brett C

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2014
1,762
2,844
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Manchester United
I can see the basis for your position - but my question was "what was his incentive for taking part in the Collingwood inquiry?"

If he is full of crap, there's obviously no reason to take part.

If he isn't full of crap, I still think there's obviously no reason to take part - he would have no faith in Collingwood actually doing the right thing (which has been proven out given the report was not going to be released) and worst case his participation could be used to handwave away any actual issues.

There's stuff you can hold against him, but I don't think this is one of them.
What’s the basis for any victim to assist law enforcement or seek redress through the courts?

If he’s so eager to get his story out there it truly makes no sense to me to take the cowards way out and provide absolutely no evidence to support his so called claims.

he’s happy to take shots from the back row which is his right but some of us who are more cynical are free to think he’s full of sh*t.
 

Full Wingspan

Premiership Player
Oct 3, 2007
3,493
2,897
Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
What’s the basis for any victim to assist law enforcement or seek redress through the courts?

If he’s so eager to get his story out there it truly makes no sense to me to take the cowards way out and provide absolutely no evidence to support his so called claims.

he’s happy to take shots from the back row which is his right but some of us who are more cynical are free to think he’s full of sh*t.
It's acknowledged in the first page of the report by the investigators that Lumumba's decision not to engage in the review process was "understandable, given his history at the club".

Lumumba has been at the forefront of this issue for a long time now. Taking on your club president, in person and on live television to discuss these very issues can hardly be described as "taking shots from the back row", in fact, Lumumba has demonstrated the very opposite.

I have always found it staggering when people resent figures purely for challenging the status quo or speaking loudly about controversial issues. In line with the spin narrative Collingwood employed with Lumumba, he has been painted as an attention seeker who's only motivated by his own public perception.

I think it is quite clear from the findings of the report that Lumumba's claims of wider racial issues are, and always were, well founded. In fact, it can be said he has played a significant role in bringing these issues to light, and his courage in this regard cannot be overstated.

Your refusal to accept the clear, objective evidence leads people to believe you are unwilling to confront these issues, or at worst, you are facilitating and enabling the very behaviour and structures that the CFC were found to have fostered.

Don't be blinded by your irrational hatred for Lumumba, invest your time to consider the impact he and others have felt and why they may be different to your perception and experiences.

For what it's worth, I was initially in the "Goodes is diving whinger who is a protected species and entitled brat" crowd when I was a teenager. But as I learnt more about the issues he confronted and considered his views, I was able to diverge my childish (and lazy) on-field view of him and properly understand the very real (and concerning) challenges that he faced and was speaking out against.
 

trikster

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2013
1,850
2,435
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Bruins, Dodgers, Bulls, SEM Phoenix
Still isn’t going to be enough for people who bought into the Collingwood and crew ‘Harry O’Brien has some mental health problems, it’s not us being mean’ proproganda.

I noticed today that Peter Helliar’s comments have been replayed and he has apologised. Really appalling how many people who had no inside knowledge were prepared to sink the boot in, and some still are
"Ironic" that it turns out that Collingwood were a significant contributor to those mental health problems they were blaming
 

Gadzorks

Premium Gold
Oct 23, 2015
5,430
8,090
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Bundy has weighed in.

Bundy is awesome. Says Eddie should be gone, while acknowledging that he has done good - balanced and considered opinion that makes his comments highly valuable.

The bit about Lions not being as connected to indigenous community when he first came align with the era when we had little to zero diversity and poor club culture.

AFL clubs are small communities but the lessons from them apply to the wider community. Diversity and tolerance make for a much better place to work and live. Just gotta get everyone on the same page, and this horrible issue with Lumumba wont change everyone, but it will have changed many. Good on him for sticking to his guns and taking on the CFC. We are all better for it. Well, except Eddie but he made the bed he has to sleep in.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

knaf

Club Legend
Mar 15, 2008
1,327
1,462
Standing on Sacred Ground
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Bundy has weighed in.

I think the most important part of this article is Bundy’s description of how racism contributes to inter generational trauma. Lots of academic stuff published on it, but you need to listen to an Aboriginal person talk about to understand it. well done again Bundy!
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,177
4,868
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I think the most important part of this article is Bundy’s description of how racism contributes to inter generational trauma. Lots of academic stuff published on it, but you need to listen to an Aboriginal person talk about to understand it. well done again Bundy!
Eddie's pride is creating more problems for Collingwood . If he had the true interests of his club and not his own he would admit that the issue has become divisive in many ways and he was stepping aside a year early to accelerate a healing process, proud of the overall performance performance of the club over his tenure, whatever. It's time for a change.

He's just digging a bigger hole especially if something else blows up . Which isn't unlikely . He would probably see that as an admission of guilt and a penalty , which for someone like Eddie is hard to swallow.

As an aside the language Eddie uses is often from the biff and bash era of the '60's ad '70's. A small but particularly cringeworthy moment was when he was hosting Carols by Candlelight last year and clasped his hands together and said 'right ,let's get stuck into it' He said it twice. Past his use by date.
 

irish

Premiership Player
Sep 20, 2002
4,004
2,428
hobart
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NHFC demons & SH/SB sharks
Such a waste , after all the work he put into the pies , all the bullying he did to our club all the influence on the AFL to get his way , all the stupid comments , all the money all the bullshit

he leaves with the tail between his legs and a rep in tatters

sad
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,177
4,868
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Such a waste , after all the work he put into the pies , all the bullying he did to our club all the influence on the AFL to get his way , all the stupid comments , all the money all the bullshit

he leaves with the tail between his legs and a rep in tatters

sad
And pushed out.
 

BangyBangy

BangyBangyMightyLoins
Oct 16, 2013
2,644
6,120
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
And pushed out.
There was never going to be any other way lol.

Couldn't help myself, had to try to watch the presser. Lol. I'm a minute in & cringing.

Already it's the all about me show. And for good measure let's mention that the AFLW played at a magnificent looking Victoria Part for 'Gay Pride Weekend'...

Don't think I can watch this all in one sitting.

I'm going to predict the future of this presser here & assume he is going to be more concerned about letting everyone know what his legacy is going to be and back slapping rather than actually being contrite about the clubs failings under his watch.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,177
4,868
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
There was never going to be any other way lol.

Couldn't help myself, had to try to watch the presser. Lol. I'm a minute in & cringing.

Already it's the all about me show. And for good measure let's mention that the AFLW played at a magnificent looking Victoria Part for 'Gay Pride Weekend'...

Don't think I can watch this all in one sitting.

I'm going to predict the future of this presser here & assume he is going to be more concerned about letting everyone know what his legacy is going to be and back slapping rather than actually being contrite about the clubs failings under his watch.
It's sad that he still thinks anyone takes him seriously.

No one I know does. The self righteous nobs in the media are turning on him as well.

Pretty much everyone who sat through it thought , yeah what a tosser.
 

Dylan12

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 7, 2007
21,852
22,957
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea, Boston Red Sox
It's sad that he still thinks anyone takes him seriously.

No one I know does. The self righteous nobs in the media are turning on him as well.

Pretty much everyone who sat through it thought , yeah what a tosser.
Given Geoff Walsh left late last year too, I reckon Collingwood should get rid of Buckley, Derek Hine, his lacky Ned Guy by the end of the year and just re-set the club in its entirety and start a fresh. I know quite a few really long-term coterie members and they see all through the BS and want all the old heads out too.

It really is a big opportunity for the first time in over 20 years that they can rejuvinate the place with fresh ideas etc.
 

Remove this Banner Ad