Non-Lions discussion 2021

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Johnny Bananas

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Although the SJW like to get people sacked or things changed.
Eddie didn't get sacked. He resigned. People have been banging on about his inappropriate comments for years and he never got sacked for it. The only thing that changed now is Lumumba started speaking out, a review was commissioned and Eddie wasn't competent or humble enough to treat the situation with the seriousness it deserved. And so the public pressure grew enough for him to resign. Why is that a bad thing? Why should our society continue to tolerate boorishness from people in positions of power? Holding those positions is a privilege, not a right.
 

martinson

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If being overly anxious, sensitive to criticism and generally bitter about my school days is toughening up I guess. I mean, I'm in a good place in life (getting married, working for a youth charity, being an autism advocate) but name-calling in school added nothing to that.

I think in prior eras it was just easier to shove your depression etc deep down inside of you and just soldier on until it killed you. The suicide rates back a century ago were terrible.
Of course.

I wasn't endorsing it . I had 2 nicknames through primary and then secondary school. Neither of them flattering. It didn't do anything to me really because in the end I can see why , and you just hid it away in those days like everything else and got on with it.

That was a couple of decades post war.

Times have changed. Though the incidence of suicide and depression amongst teenagers particularly is at pandemic levels as far as I can tell. We now have a new bully , SM and the internet.

Whoever you are ,whatever era you live in , you're going to face personal challenges particular in your post pubescent years. One of the keys is to be taught and learn resilience. Hopefully not the hard way.
 

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BangyBangy

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Of course.

I wasn't endorsing it . I had 2 nicknames through primary and then secondary school. Neither of them flattering. It didn't do anything to me really because in the end I can see why , and you just hid it away in those days like everything else and got on with it.

That was a couple of decades post war.

Times have changed. Though the incidence of suicide and depression amongst teenagers particularly is at pandemic levels as far as I can tell. We now have a new bully , SM and the internet.

Whoever you are ,whatever era you live in , you're going to face personal challenges particular in your post pubescent years. One of the keys is to be taught and learn resilience. Hopefully not the hard way.
Kids were really mean in the couple of decades or so post Boer War.
 

T Rick

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If being overly anxious, sensitive to criticism and generally bitter about my school days is toughening up I guess. I mean, I'm in a good place in life (getting married, working for a youth charity, being an autism advocate) but name-calling in school added nothing to that.

I think in prior eras it was just easier to shove your depression etc deep down inside of you and just soldier on until it killed you. The suicide rates back a century ago were terrible.
Sadly, the suicide rates among current service or ex service personnel are catastrophic now.
 

davemc_lions

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Why is that a bad thing? Why should our society continue to tolerate boorishness from people in positions of power? Holding those positions is a privilege, not a right.
I do not think it a bad thing Eddie had many many chances. Do not get me wrong..
Just commenting in the last year Cancel Culture has a giant foot hold. He was not going to last the year.
Eddie did not read the room as you said was not humble and tried to spin it as a good thing.
Worked 5 years ago not today.
This time I do not think it is a bad thing.. The whole Cancel Anything Culture I think going a little too crazy.
 

Dylan12

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As Lumumba says here, and later points out that the fact that it made it into a printed AFL record is damning on Collingwood and the AFL itself.


When his Harry going to actually accept a modicum of responsibility in any of this and stop deflecting blame. He his great at blaming everyone else, yet couldn't refute claims be ex-teammates, including indigenous ones and still couldn't answer questions by Waleed Aly when also pressed on it, which conveniently channel 10 have now taken down. Wonder what threats were levelled there to have it removed.

Harry's narrative is so amusing, just amazes me that anyone takes him seriously.
 

jackess

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When his Harry going to actually accept a modicum of responsibility in any of this and stop deflecting blame. He his great at blaming everyone else, yet couldn't refute claims be ex-teammates, including indigenous ones and still couldn't answer questions by Waleed Aly when also pressed on it, which conveniently channel 10 have now taken down. Wonder what threats were levelled there to have it removed.

Harry's narrative is so amusing, just amazes me that anyone takes him seriously.
Your method of arguing seems very similar to his actually. Just different sides. One arguing that racism is an ongoing issue and one arguing it isn't
 

Tom14

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When his Harry going to actually accept a modicum of responsibility in any of this and stop deflecting blame. He his great at blaming everyone else, yet couldn't refute claims be ex-teammates, including indigenous ones and still couldn't answer questions by Waleed Aly when also pressed on it, which conveniently channel 10 have now taken down. Wonder what threats were levelled there to have it removed.

Harry's narrative is so amusing, just amazes me that anyone takes him seriously.
Sorry, what is his responsibility for being called a chimp and being rebuked by Buckley for criticising Eddie re his Goodes comments?

I'd also like to know why you insist on continuing to call him by his non-preferred name. It is not hard to type Heritier - its only 4 more letters.
 

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Johnny Bananas

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I'd also like to know why you insist on continuing to call him by his non-preferred name. It is not hard to type Heritier - its only 4 more letters.
Because it's seemingly beyond some people to be respectful of others. These are often the same sorts of people who complain a lot about political correctness and want to pretend racism isn't an issue in today's society.
 

davemc_lions

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What's your evidence for this? Which cases of this happening were unjustified?
way off topic.. I think some of these things get a life of their own now.
Pretty sure no one in the world is perfect.
Two people can have different opinion's and both of them can be wrong as well.

There are lines that should not be crossed I understand that.

Although think Rohan Atkinson saying recently it like a digital lynch mob looking for someone to burn.
There is some truth in that.
 

Johnny Bananas

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way off topic.. I think some of these things get a life of their own now.
Pretty sure no one in the world is perfect.
Two people can have different opinion's and both of them can be wrong as well.

There are lines that should not be crossed I understand that.

Although think Rohan Atkinson saying recently it like a digital lynch mob looking for someone to burn.
There is some truth in that.
I don't see any examples there. Surely you can name a couple if it has such a problem giant foothold and is going crazy.
 

davemc_lions

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I don't see any examples there. Surely you can name a couple if it has such a problem giant foothold and is going crazy.
Hey Johnny, not going into a lengthy debate on a footy forum about things not footy.
It is perfectly fine for me to think some of the cancel culture/woke/PC stuff going crazy and too far now.
And for you to disagree.
Then someone to disagree with both of us.
Just not how things are now.

With Eddie as said should of gone years ago with stuff he said.
 

Gadzorks

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I'm not interested in Collingwood, rather the legitimacy of Harry's story remembering his nickname that he is ever so aggrieved about was a name he gave himself and verified by other indigenous players and handed out willingly to AFL Record by him (surely if he was so offended by it back then he wouldn't have given that name as his nickname) and his inability to answer and rather deflect the question about his nickname when being interviewed by Waleed Aly. Surely if someone is so openly ok with being called a name you made up, its pretty rich coming back years later and saying the club and people were racist towards him.

I call BS on Harry's story.
I’ve been in relationships, work or partnerships, where there are interactions I don’t like but laugh off and suck up to keep the peace.

In the end there have been a couple of big blowups and all the stuff from previous years have been bought up and killed the relationship. And I’ve quit the job.

I can totally see a lumumba going from trying to embrace and laugh it off to blowing a gasket.

The fact you keep referring to him as Harry says you have a set position against the guy and you are not listening to anything he has to say. Do you object to women changing their name when they get married? They change their name to signify a big change in how they view the world, lumumba has changed the way he sees the world, and he changed his name to signify that.
 

briztoon

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Hey Johnny, not going into a lengthy debate on a footy forum about things not footy.
It is perfectly fine for me to think some of the cancel culture/woke/PC stuff going crazy and too far now.
And for you to disagree.
Then someone to disagree with both of us.
Just not how things are now.

With Eddie as said should of gone years ago with stuff he said.
You introduced the topic of cancel culture taking over and voiced your opinion.

When called for examples, you should be able to back up your claim and opinion, rather than walking away from the discussion.

This now looks like you’ve been called out and can’t back up your statement and opinion.
 

Full Wingspan

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When his Harry going to actually accept a modicum of responsibility in any of this and stop deflecting blame. He his great at blaming everyone else, yet couldn't refute claims be ex-teammates, including indigenous ones and still couldn't answer questions by Waleed Aly when also pressed on it, which conveniently channel 10 have now taken down. Wonder what threats were levelled there to have it removed.

Harry's narrative is so amusing, just amazes me that anyone takes him seriously.
So even when you are provided an explanation regarding the nickname you simply chose to ignore it.

I see no utility in discussing such issues with those who simply refuse to engage in any form of meaningful or logical discussion or are not prepared to consider anything contrary to their views despite being provided with evidence or alternative viewpoints.

Being deliberately antagonistic in respect of Lumumba's name only further discredits your position as you are not prepared to show a modicum of respect to his identity and chosen name, let alone any opposing view or explanation he may provide.

Perhaps most importantly (and the point you have failed to address), what difference does it make if Lumumba is purely in it for his own self interest? If that brings to light systematic racism within the AFL or Collingwood FC, isn't that a good thing?

I'm left to conclude that you, at best, fail to apprehend the systems and environments which facilitate and excerbate racial discrimination, or at the very worst, you support them.
 
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Dylan12

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I’ve been in relationships, work or partnerships, where there are interactions I don’t like but laugh off and suck up to keep the peace.

In the end there have been a couple of big blowups and all the stuff from previous years have been bought up and killed the relationship. And I’ve quit the job.

I can totally see a lumumba going from trying to embrace and laugh it off to blowing a gasket.

The fact you keep referring to him as Harry says you have a set position against the guy and you are not listening to anything he has to say. Do you object to women changing their name when they get married? They change their name to signify a big change in how they view the world, lumumba has changed the way he sees the world, and he changed his name to signify that.
I literally had to laugh at a non-indigenous colleague for reciting some diatribe about being grateful for the lands we are on and paying respect to elder ect. etc. o 5 other non-indigenous people and I asked why? The response; because it was politically correct to do so. To who? Was the meeting be leaked that she was going to be exposed as if she was doing the wrong thing? So no, I won't just suck things up when there is no need to so that the PC fist wavers can big note themselves as if it helps them sleep at night.

I know where Harry is from and I just don't buy his story. Simple and I'm not apologising for it, like many others aren't. He wants to stay relevant and get a pay day and that is all this is about. Period. I'm sorry he feels the way he does, but he's had his apology, got Ed to step down early and still its not enough. When does he finally come out and actually answer the questions Aly asked him and tell the truth? He doesn't, because it doesn't support his narrative. Just sad and worse are the minions out there falling for it.

And no, I don't object to women keeping their own name and actually encouraged my fiancé to retain hers. What's your point? I'm all for equality, but not when organisations and people go outwardly the other way when they end up appointing people (be it directors or partners, certain levels of management etc.) that are incompetent or unsuitable for the role in order to achieve certain quotas which I'm seeing time and time again to the detriment of more qualified people.
 

Dylan12

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So even when you are provided an explanation regarding the nickname you simply chose to ignore it.

I see nonutility in discussing such issues with those who simply refuse to engage in any form of meaningful or logical discussion or are not prepared to consider anything contrary to their views despite being provided with evidence or alternative viewpoints.

Being deliberately antagonistic in respect of Lumumba's name only further discredits your position as you are not prepared to show a modicum of respect to his identity and chosen name, let alone any opposing view or explanation he may provide.

Perhaps most importantly (and the point you have failed to address), what difference does it make if Lumumba is purely in it for his own self interest? If that brings to light systematic racism within the AFL or Collingwood FC, isn't that a good thing?

I'm left to conclude that you, at best, fail to apprehend the systems and environments which facilitate and excerbate racial discrimination, or at the very worst, you support them.
Keep on apologising; I'm not interested and nor are others I know that are of colour who aren't buying this either.
 

Full Wingspan

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Keep on apologising; I'm not interested and nor are others I know that are of colour who aren't buying this either.
Ahh, the old "I have black friends who don't agree so they must represent the collective experiences of every person of colour" argument.

Fascinating stuff.

Also, to what extent are your interactions with Lumumba? Did know him personally? Or was he 6 years older than you and lived two suburbs away?
 

davemc_lions

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You introduced the topic of cancel culture taking over and voiced your opinion.

When called for examples, you should be able to back up your claim and opinion, rather than walking away from the discussion.

This now looks like you’ve been called out and can’t back up your statement and opinion.
I be cancelled for complaining :) Sorry I ever mentioned it now he he.

ok I give you one example pulling of Faulty Towers German episode.
There be people here who will be happy it pulled and others who are not.
You know what they are both right.
 

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