News North Board Member Glenn Archer in Altercation at Junior Football Match (Charges laid)

[Le Grille]

As a kid I had a player on my team get sent from the field because he was acting up.

His mum came on the field an blasted the coach fn this fn that took ages. We all sat down laughing. The husband had to convince her to get of the field.

Good Times, I hated that kid and I love everybody.

 

[Tas]

I don't know what has gone wrong with my generation, just let your kids get out there, even if they get into fights, it is character building for kids to sort problems out for themselves, even if they have to take some licks in the process. I am sure Archer wouldn't have wanted his dad stepping in and fighting all of his battles and denying the great man the opportunity to become the man he became.

I know we want to protect the next generation but I fear we are doing more harm than good by being over-protective, it is like these nannies that spray everything with disinfectant for the bubble babies so they aren't exposed to a single germ cell and now have all sorts of allergies and the like because they grew up with their body that wasn't tempered growing up to fight off germs and infections. We are producing a generation that is going to be weaker than the previous one if we deny them the opportunity to live and fight their own battles.

 

[LT Smash]

I don't know what has gone wrong with my generation, just let your kids get out there, even if they get into fights, it is character building for kids to sort problems out for themselves, even if they have to take some licks in the process.

Since we are sharing junior football stories, back when I was playing Under 16s, my dad was goal umpiring and he made a call that our opponents from North Dandenong were unhappy about. The fullback squared up to my dad and threatened to punch his head in. I should mention that the North Dandenong "kids" were all a foot taller than us, they had full facial hair, and some of them drove their cars to the games. I don't think that club was diligent on checking birth certificates. At any rate, and further to your point, back in my day, parents didn't have to worry about their kids getting bashed by adults. We were more likely to bash the adults.

 

[discomute]

All I will say is this. If it was one of my kids, or just any kid, being assaulted by an adult on a sporting field, I'd be over the fence immediately and sorting things out.

No doubt I would end up much worse the wear, but no-one, just no-one should get away with assaulting a child.

Why just child? It's amazing to me that this concept of 'never jump the fence' is going around unchallenged.

Your best mate gets KOd by a punch. Obviously right now the answer is 'do not jump the fence'. But what if he continues to get hit? What if he's cowering in front of you while a player belts him in the head? How sure are you on 'never'?

AFL (and other sport in general) has a serious problem where assaults are outside of the rules but there is a culture of acceptance. IMO (and I imagine most will disagree) the police need to step in. Something like a Hall-Staker incident has nothing to do with football, and Hall should be charged with assault. This applies twice over for local footy and ten times over for junior footy.

 

[Kimbo]

AFL (and other sport in general) has a serious problem where assaults are outside of the rules but there is a culture of acceptance. IMO (and I imagine most will disagree) the police need to step in. Something like a Hall-Staker incident has nothing to do with football, and Hall should be charged with assault.

Yes, it's where there isn't an adequate distinction between 'hardness' and 'violence'. Good post.

 

[Groin guru]

Not gonna go into specifics as TBH I tend to be more focussed on my Son and his team than the opposition.

In future games can you get your son to tag Archer jnr so you can give a proper analysis (2 birds 1 stone).

 

[Groin guru]

In under 13's i was slung in a tackle by a guy 3 times the size of me. He slung me straight into the interchange which was about 6 fold out chairs. I was airborne. Luckily i didn't hurt a thing but i stayed in the pile of chairs for a little longer because i thought I'd get a 50m penalty if i did. My mum, dad, and nan sprinted over to see if i was okay and my dad got in a heateed argument with the other boys dad. I thought "s**t i better get up". The coach and my mum refused to let me finish the game and my parents went to take me to the hospital to check for internal injuries. When we got in the car i told my mum i was faking it and I'm actually okay...worst mistake of my life. She went ballistic at me.

The boy that slung me got suspended for 2 weeks. I told everyone at training that i had bruised ribs but i should be able to play on the weekend. For the rest of the year the coach used the example of me playing the following week to try and spur on the team whenever we were losing.

Can't believe i didn't get a 50m penalty.

 

[Kimbo]

In under 13's i was slung in a tackle by a guy 3 times the size of me. He slung me straight into the interchange which was about 6 fold out chairs. I was airborne. Luckily i didn't hurt a thing but i stayed in the pile of chairs for a little longer because i thought I'd get a 50m penalty if i did. My mum, dad, and nan sprinted over to see if i was okay and my dad got in a heateed argument with the other boys dad. I thought "s**t i better get up". The coach and my mum refused to let me finish the game and my parents went to take me to the hospital to check for internal injuries. When we got in the car i told my mum i was faking it and I'm actually okay...worst mistake of my life. She went ballistic at me.

The boy that slung me got suspended for 2 weeks. I told everyone at training that i had bruised ribs but i should be able to play on the weekend. For the rest of the year the coach used the example of me playing the following week to try and spur on the team whenever we were losing.

Can't believe i didn't get a 50m penalty.

... and that's why, boys and girls, I decided to get into sports rehabilitation.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Since we are sharing junior football stories, back when I was playing Under 16s, my dad was goal umpiring and he made a call that our opponents from North Dandenong were unhappy about. The fullback squared up to my dad and threatened to punch his head in. I should mention that the North Dandenong "kids" were all a foot taller than us, they had full facial hair, and some of them drove their cars to the games. I don't think that club was diligent on checking birth certificates. At any rate, and further to your point, back in my day, parents didn't have to worry about their kids getting bashed by adults. We were more likely to bash the adults.

I have seen blokes down at North-Kensington pull shooters on the boundary.

The stuff people get all indignant about these days is certifiably ghey

 

[ferball]

AFL (and other sport in general) has a serious problem where assaults are outside of the rules but there is a culture of acceptance. IMO (and I imagine most will disagree) the police need to step in. Something like a Hall-Staker incident has nothing to do with football, and Hall should be charged with assault. This applies twice over for local footy and ten times over for junior footy.

Since you (and Kimbo with his point about hardness and violence) raise that incident... how do you feel about Cunnington hitting Vince, or about a player elbowing another player in the body as a ball is bounced or thrown up, which happens almost every contest especially in lower but still good leagues where players are genuinely competing hard against each other. Personally that hit by Hall should have copped police action. Dunno about Cameron hitting Kayne Turner tho. And standing next to each other and jostling then elbowing each other in the body/midriff - to me thats fine. its part of the set up for the contest. If your opponent isn't able to take or recover from something like that they probably aren't match fit to the required level and why can't you take advantage of that the way you take advantage of someone else's inability to sprint at the end of the 4th quarter because they aren't as physically fit or gifted.

Or someone else's inability to crash packs, put on fair bumps or hold a tackle.

You can't separate hardness and violence because the only measure of "hardness" involves some form of violence. By definition the contact is violent because physical contact in a contest is violent*.

The distinction has to be what is acceptable and what isn't and it also has to involve a serious conversation about the actual role pf violence and physical intimidation in the game.

Its especially hypocritical of us North fans given our most recent premiership success was built as much off the hardness and ability to be violent as off the skill of our players.

EDITED to Add * it seems strange to have to qualify this. I would have thought it was self evident.

 

[Kimbo]

Since you (and Kimbo with his point about hardness and violence) raise that incident... how do you feel about Cunnington hitting Vince, or about a player elbowing another player in the body as a ball is bounced or thrown up, which happens almost every contest especially in lower but still good leagues where players are genuinely competing hard against each other. Personally that hit by Hall should have copped police action. Dunno about Cameron hitting Kayne Turner tho. And standing next to each other and jostling then elbowing each other in the body/midriff - to me thats fine. its part of the set up for the contest. If your opponent isn't able to take or recover from something like that they probably aren't match fit to the required level and why can't you take advantage of that the way you take advantage of someone else's inability to sprint at the end of the 4th quarter because they aren't as physically fit or gifted.

Or someone else's inability to crash packs, put on fair bumps or hold a tackle.

You can't separate hardness and violence because the only measure of "hardness" involves some form of violence. By definition the contact is violent because physical contact in a contest is violent*.

The distinction has to be what is acceptable and what isn't and it also has to involve a serious conversation about the actual role pf violence and physical intimidation in the game.

Its especially hypocritical of us North fans given our most recent premiership success was built as much off the hardness and ability to be violent as off the skill of our players.

EDITED to Add * it seems strange to have to qualify this. I would have thought it was self evident.

I think you can differentiate them ferball.

For me, the first key criterion of violence is an intention to do physical harm. Indeed, as we are increasingly seeing, psychological harm too (e.g. limits to sledging, and racial vilification).

The second is probably a striking motion or contact, be that with fist, elbow, foot, whatever (punching, slapping, elbowing, kicking, kneeing, headbutting etc.) That is, physical actions that involve a deliberate intention to harm the other, through aggression or frustration, regardless of impact or effectiveness. You could put Barry Hall's headlock in here too and there would also be particular situations where a push (eg into a fence or goal/behind post) isn't okay. From that point of view, Cunnington's punch and those of unpunished 'stars' would not be acceptable. I don't think provocation is an excuse, however 'understandable' it is. We don't accept provocation as an excuse to hit another in the workplace, or in a social situation; why is this different? I think that's discomute's point.

So, contact that isn't deliberate; that is, which is accidental or incidental, and arises despite due care, isn't violence as I'm defining it here. Equally, push and shove, that doesn't involve a striking motion, is fine too, on the assumption this isn't about an intention to do harm.

Hardness, then, becomes about pushing through pain barriers (eg gut running), leaping into, or throwing yourself into the contest, scragging for the ball in a contested situation, and tackling hard but fair.

As for any hypocrisy regarding our 90s teams, my view on that is that the same rules applied to everyone. Times change and, slowly, people and their institutions change. While I enjoyed the toughness of the 90s and even savoured certain aspects of footy in the 70s and 80s, and have felt like the game is being sanitised, upon reflection, including through conversations like this, I'm glad it's going this way.

 

[discomute]

Kimbo summed it up well.

I think any areas of grey should be left with the AFL. Houli's strike was him trying to get away. Cunnington's throat hit was him trying to get McRae(?) off him. Leave that with the AFL. Not saying either of these are true, but if it's grey, it shouldn't go to the police.

But something like Cunnington's hit on Vince should be as assault charge. It was not in the passage of play at all, and not what footy's about, not within or even close to within the rules of the game.

 

[Whereitallbegan]

How are you now? I like that you're lying there with a broken neck and still find time to be embarrassed by your mum.

Had no feeling at all for about 10 minutes. was the strangest feeling willing and telling my arms to push myself up to my knees and nothing happening. Turns out i'd fractured C5 and sustained severe bruising of the spinal cord at C3. I was 28 at the time, now 52 and in my 40s had an op to place a titanium cage/plates/screws to make it stable. To be honest it's only just recently that l've come to terms with the way my playing days ended. was very bitter about not being able to choose that time. Whilst will always have permanent nerve damage, it could have been worse, not far off paying the ultimate price i was told and for that i am very grateful, others have not been so lucky.

I didn't mean to rant, but sometimes, it does actually help to talk about it, as there has been some very dark days over the journey and hasn't been something i've wanted to burden my family with. Cheers!!

 

[ferball]

Kimbo summed it up well.

I think any areas of grey should be left with the AFL. Houli's strike was him trying to get away. Cunnington's throat hit was him trying to get McRae(?) off him. Leave that with the AFL. Not saying either of these are true, but if it's grey, it shouldn't go to the police.

But something like Cunnington's hit on Vince should be as assault charge. It was not in the passage of play at all, and not what footy's about, not within or even close to within the rules of the game.

I completely disagree with this. Vince had just hit him unexpectedly from behind. Cunnington didn't retaliate he moved to take his kick. Vince walked in front of him and raised his arms to shape up in a fighting pose to Cunnington then Cunnington hit him - after he began to shape up to fight Cunnington. What Cunnington did stopped Vince from hitting him again. If anything he acted in self defence and in response to Vince initiating something. He has every reason to expect Vince to hit him again as Vince has a recent history of violence against his team mates and an even more recent history of violence against Cunnington.

Higgins responses to tagging that day were less justified than Cunningtons in that instance. Even what Cunners was suspended for last week was more dodgy imo.

Look at it this way.

If you were in public or even at work and someone king hit you unexpectedly from behind the way Vince hit Cunnington then walked up to you and raised your arms in a fighting pose and you hit them once, in the body not the head, then walked away and did no further violence, and it was all on video like the game you would not be charged with assault.

Its pretty much the only way you could behave in that manner and not be charged.

 

[ferball]

Kimbo your post deserves a longer response too so I'll make an effort to comment later.

 

[The Dingrel]

Parents will always be protective of their kids, in my humble opinion the problem is a cultural one that starts at afl level, kids see their heros throwing cheap shots and do the same. As a kid growing up playing schoolboy footy, we played hard but always within the rules and would be dragged if starting or retaliating to a scuffle. Sitting here watching swans Melbourne game, Bugg has dropped Mills with no repercussions on the spot. Mills takes no further part. I reckon bugg should be sent off to take no further part. Rugby union has it right, extremely physical game with far more potential for flare ups, but it's extremely rare to see beacause there is a strong culture of respect for the ref and the game. My boys play union, in 8 seasons I've not seen a single fight, in fact my son (who's a half back) flattened a kid the other week stopping the game for 10 mins, the opposition rather than having a go at him congratulated him for a good tackle! Culture needs to change, accept it for being a physical game, the odd accident will occur, accept it for what it is, and respect umpires decisions. Retaliation results in a yellow card and any reckless acts of violence result in a red card to be determined by video umpire. Stamp out the cheap shots on field, teach respect for the game, rules, and opposition, and there'll be less interference from the sidelines.

 

[discomute]

ferball if that's how you remember it, then you are right. My recollection (and it might be wrong) is after being taken high, Vince stood the mark and Cunnington walked up to him and hit him.

It's a bad example as we seem to remember it different. But if anyone could give me a reason why Bugg shouldn't be charged with assault, I'd be all ears.

 

[ferball]

See on my avatar how Cunnington doesn't do anything till Vince raises his arms. The avatar has heaps of frames missing to make it fit the limit for BF avatars so it looks a bit weird but I reckon it shows it clearly enough. Actual video is a lot clearer. I doubt Cunnington would have done anything if Vince hadn't fronted up to him and raised his hands. If Vince was standing the mark properly he'd be facing something like 9'oclock ish, to the right of screen, on my avatar image instead of 4 O'clock-ish as he was when he gets hit. And a few metres away from where he was too.

I think the umpire lost control of that situation tho.

Melbourne are definitely playing a niggling game this year. Its probably the influence of Lewis. They go close to the edge of whats permissible. And the drop alot to try and win free kicks. Its pretty s**t play. That said I didn't see Bugg's hit.

 

[Kimbo]

Kimbo your post deserves a longer response too so I'll make an effort to comment later.

Don't bother mate, unless you particularly want to. Despite my post and the sense of engagement it implies, it's not a 'hot spot' for me. A source of frustration perhaps, but generally something I file under "humans are s**t".

 

[giantroo]

Glenn Archer’s Assault Conviction Overturned On Appeal


Two-time premiership star and Shinboner of the Century recipient Glenn Archer was successful in overturning his assault conviction in County Court today.


Archer was originally charged for punching a runner in the face at his son’s under-15s footy match back in 2017.

He plead guilty to the charge believing he would only get "a slap on the wrist".

However in November last year Archer decided to appeal the $2000 fine and $955 to replace the glasses of the victim which he was given.

Today Judge Mark Dean handed Archer a 12-month good behaviour bond and a $2000 fine to the Berry St Charity.

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/gl...3e4KSnI5krHkqfRQwgaBWx9PLYiR3E7qMoQ6NAsbanNTw

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Probably a decent enough result, the whole situation stank from the get go, runners story changed about 5 times in 2 weeks.

 

[hale]

Nice troll from 'Judge Dean' quoted in this article: Ex-footballer Glenn Archer wins appeal over runner assault conviction

The father of four, Mr Lawrence said, acknowledged he should have stayed on his side of the fence while watching the game.
"He should have left it in the hands of the officials and not become involved," he said.
Archer played 311 games for North and was a star in two AFL premierships, but Judge Dean said he did not need to be reminded about his playing career.
"I follow Geelong, Mr Lawrence. The 1994 preliminary final comes to mind," he said.

 

[Royal Flush]

I don't get that he needed to appeal in the county court because he wasn't able to present his side of the story when first sentenced. His appeal meant he wasn't given a conviction.
Was he self representing initially?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[czero]

950 dollars for glasses? What are they, laced with gold trim?

 

[Luke72]

950 dollars for glasses? What are they, laced with gold trim?

Shoulda gone to Specsavers.