North debt free for the first time since 1987

[Roylion]

I’m suggesting that unless you have a crystal ball we don’t know the structure or the direction of the league in the next 10 to 20 years so it remains to be seen.

But you claimed..."I don’t really see the league with the same amount of Vic clubs in 10 years time." That's what you said wasn't it?

On what basis?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But you claimed..."I don’t really see the league with the same amount of Vic clubs in 10 years time." That's what you said wasn't it?

On what basis?

You know what I posted.

I don’t think the status quo just continues because supporters will it to. Any number of factors couldn’t change, and it’s just as arguble that the league changes strategy in regards to Vic clubs as it happily stays the same.

 

[The 747]

That’s great, but it remains to be seen.

It remain to be seen whether the sun will rise tomorrow.

 

[Roylion]

You know what I posted.

I don’t think the status quo just continues because supporters will it to. Any number of factors couldn’t change, and it’s just as arguble that the league changes strategy in regards to Vic clubs as it happily stays the same.

In my view that possibility is remote.

- Supporters will fight tooth and nail to prevent the relocation or merger of their club. There will certainly be no relocations of Vic clubs interstate. Mergers are remote also. A club exiting the competition is also remote.
- Most Vic clubs are debt free or have their debt under control and have established operating bases.
- There is no appetite by the AFL to merge or relocate Vic clubs, as there was in the 90s. I can't see that changing in the next ten years either as membership bases of clubs continue to grow.

 

[Jack Green]

You know what I posted.

I don’t think the status quo just continues because supporters will it to. Any number of factors couldn’t change, and it’s just as arguble that the league changes strategy in regards to Vic clubs as it happily stays the same.


[/QUOTE You did say you were certain clubs would move. But you weren't certain of the time-frame this would occur.
Out of curiosity if the Hawks fell on hard times like a quarter of a century ago , and re-located to Tasmania and became the Tassie Hawks , would you still support them

 

[Kwality]

You know what I posted.

I don’t think the status quo just continues because supporters will it to. Any number of factors couldn’t change, and it’s just as arguble that the league changes strategy in regards to Vic clubs as it happily stays the same.

With an impotent AFL Commission & a Melbourne centric AFL administration, I'd like to believe you are correct, but since Demetriou squibbed it on North to the Gold Coast, the game has taken the easy way out.
Currently its moving the pieces around to put an extra team in Tassie with not a care in the world for the depth of talent. Then another team to balance out the numbers looks a certainty.

 

[Roylion]

With an impotent AFL Commission & a Melbourne centric AFL administration, I'd like to believe you are correct, but since Demetriou squibbed it on North to the Gold Coast, the game has taken the easy way out.

Demetriou of course had absolutely no say in the final decision made by the North Melbourne board of directors in 2008. Demetriou knew it. The Commission knew it. North knew it. And you know it too.

Currently its moving the pieces around to put an extra team in Tassie with not a care in the world for the depth of talent.

That's because the argument of a supposed shortfall to "depth of talent" in determing the entry of new AFL clubs has no substance.

 

[Kwality]

That's because the argument of a supposed shortfall to "depth of talent" in determing the entry of new AFL clubs has no substance.

With your logic there would be an ever expanding number of runners in the Olympic final.

 

[Roylion]

With your logic there would be an ever expanding number of runners in the Olympic final.

As the world's population expands, why not. The standard with sixteen runners in the Olympic final, would be just as good, if not better, as it was fifty years ago. Even in the 21st century the qualifying times for the 100 metres has fallen from 10.26s in 2000 to 10.05s in 2021.

 

[Kwality]

Demetriou of course had absolutely no say in the final decision made by the North Melbourne board of directors in 2008. Demetriou knew it. The Commission knew it. North knew it. And you know it too.

If the AFL had the appetite, it could have forced the issue: dollars. Demetriou was every bit as powerful as McLachlan is today.

We are stuck with a horribly out of balance national comp & will keep adding more & more teams until the inbalance of 9 teams in one city is addressed.

 

[Roylion]

If the AFL had the appetite, it could have forced the issue: dollars. Demetriou was every bit as powerful as McLachlan is today.

There was no absolutely way North could have been forced to relocate at the end of 2008.

We are stuck with a horribly out of balance national comp & will keep adding more & more teams until the inbalance of 9 teams in one city is addressed.

22-24 clubs eventually.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well done North Melbourne.

 

[Kwality]

Demetriou of course had absolutely no say in the final decision made by the North Melbourne board of directors in 2008. Demetriou knew it. The Commission knew it. North knew it. And you know it too.

If the AFL had the appetite, it could have forced the issue: dollars. Demetriou was every bit as powerful as McLachlan is today.

We are stuck with a horribly out of balance national comp & will keep adding more & more teams until the inbalance of 9 teams in one city is addressed. There will be no appetite for addressing this inbalance whilst survival of the Melbourne clubs remains aim of the clubs that benefit from the status quo.

 

[Kwality]

There was no absolutely way North could have been forced to relocate at the end of 2008.



22-24 clubs eventually.

All these players are currently playing in the 2nd tier. To suggest there can be up to 6 additional team lists drawn from the 2nd tier beggars belief.

Subiaco is the best performed 2nd tier club (5 flags in 10 years) & as a follower of their fortunes since the 50s, their squad is not up to AFL standard.

 

[Roylion]

If the AFL had the appetite, it could have forced the issue: dollars. Demetriou was every bit as powerful as McLachlan is today.

The AFL has no power to merge or relocate teams without the consent of the relevant club and then the other clubs.

All the Commission can do is to revoke the licence of a club to compete in the competition. That was NEVER going to happen in 2008.

We are stuck with a horribly out of balance national comp & will keep adding more & more teams until the inbalance of 9 teams in one city is addressed. There will be no appetite for addressing this inbalance whilst survival of the Melbourne clubs remains aim of the clubs that benefit from the status quo.

So 22-24 teams in the future.

 

[Kwality]

As the world's population expands, why not. The standard with sixteen runners in the Olympic final, would be just as good, if not better, as it was fifty years ago. Even in the 21st century the qualifying times for the 100 metres has fallen from 10.26s in 2000 to 10.05s in 2021.

Its the same thinking that has seen our footy go from 18 participants to 23 interchanged.

 

[Rob]

Demetriou of course had absolutely no say in the final decision made by the North Melbourne board of directors in 2008. Demetriou knew it. The Commission knew it. North knew it. And you know it too.

Yes, but he could have easily forced the move by simply saying that they receive the base distribution at the time that was then received by most clubs.
Instead North actually got increased discretionary distributions from the AFL. With that backing them, they were never going to agree to it.

Not that North were the lone ranger in the league at the time by any means.

 

[Roylion]

All these players are currently playing in the 2nd tier. To suggest there can be up to 6 additional team lists drawn from the 2nd tier beggars belief.

Subiaco is the best performed 2nd tier club (5 flags in 10 years) & as a follower of their fortunes since the 50s, their squad is not up to AFL standard.

Of course it's not. But Subiaco wouldn't be entering the league with their current squad.

If Subiaco was to enter the league then the available talent will be spread around via the draft, uncontracted players and other mechanisms. And there is far more talent around than there was in the 1950s. Or even the 1980s.

 

[Kwality]

Of course it's not. But Subiaco wouldn't be entering the league with their current squad.

If Subiaco was to enter the league then the available talent will be spread around via the draft, uncontracted players and other mechanisms. And there is far more talent around than there was in the 1950s. Or even the 1980s.

The point about Subi is its success at the 2nd tier level.

Of course footy full time pretty much attracts all the available talent. There are very few Tom Boyds, walking away from a bag of gold & the trappings that go with it. There arent many Mitch Marsh's or Ricky Pontings that can turn their hand to both games at the highest level.
what would Mike Fitzpatrick have done in the modern era?

 

[Roylion]

Yes, but he could have easily forced the move by simply saying that they receive the base distribution at the time that was then received by most clubs.

And on what legal basis could you have refused North Melbourne any extra funding from the AFL’s Annual Special Distribution Fund, above and beyond the $5,673,252 base funding in 2009?

In 2009 the Annual Special Distribution fund distributed money to the following clubs.

Western Bulldogs Football Club ($1.7 million)
North Melbourne Football Club ($1.4 million)
Melbourne Football Club ($1.0 million)
Sydney Swans Football Club ($0.8 million)
Carlton Football Club ($0.6 million)
Richmond Football Club ($0.4 million)
Port Adelaide Football Club ($0.25 million)
Hawthorn Football Club ($0.25 million)

Instead North actually got increased discretionary distributions from the AFL. With that backing them, they were never going to agree to it.

The AFL couldn't just arbitrarily remove any discretionary distributions from North Melbourne alone, without risking legal action.

Not that North were the lone ranger in the league at the time by any means.

In 2009 all clubs received between $4,733,426 (Western Bulldogs) and $1,733,453 (Adelaide) above their base distribution. Carlton for example received an extra $3,528,088 above their base distribution.

 

[Kwality]

The AFL couldn't just arbitrarily remove any discretionary distributions from North Melbourne alone, without risking legal action.

Given the AFL has the purse strings, it has the call. Any substantive legal action would be addressed before taking the action, but as we both know its academic.

 

[Roylion]

The point about Subi is its success at the 2nd tier level.

That does not mean that Subiaco does not have players already who could play at AFL level.

Of course footy full time pretty much attracts all the available talent.

The best talent certainly. But not all the talent. There's plenty of top flight talent playing Australian football for 20 teams. Many are on AFL lists now. Some are not. There could easily be 80 extra AFL standard players across two new teams, including the 50-60 draftees that will be taken this Wednesday. There were 59 new players taken in last year's draft.

Why not just have two teams in the league? Then you could have the elite of the elite.

what would Mike Fitzpatrick have done in the modern era?

Been a middle tier player.

 

[Roylion]

Given the AFL has the purse strings, it has the call.

But still wouldn't be able to move North Melbourne without the consent of the elected board. The very fact that the AFL immediately started plans for a 17th team when North rejected their offer speaks volumes. Not to mention the AFL's efforts to secure enough shares in the club to assume ownership.

They couldn't even move or merge the Roys.

Any substantive legal action would be addressed before taking the action,

The AFL had no way of moving North in time for the 2008 season. And they knew it.

but as we both know its academic.

Without the consent of the North board, it wasn't going to happen.

 

[Rob]

And on what legal basis could you have refused North Melbourne any extra funding from the AFL’s Annual Special Distribution Fund, above and beyond the $5,673,252 base funding in 2009?

In 2009 the Annual Special Distribution fund distributed money to the following clubs.

Western Bulldogs Football Club ($1.7 million)
North Melbourne Football Club ($1.4 million)
Melbourne Football Club ($1.0 million)
Sydney Swans Football Club ($0.8 million)
Carlton Football Club ($0.6 million)
Richmond Football Club ($0.4 million)
Port Adelaide Football Club ($0.25 million)
Hawthorn Football Club ($0.25 million)



The AFL couldn't just arbitrarily remove any discretionary distributions from North Melbourne alone, without risking legal action.

I may be stating the bleeding obvious here, but the thing about discretionary distributions is that they're discretionary. There was no legal basis for them and were handed out based on the AFLs whims at the time.

I'm not sure what basis you think any legal action would have been successful. "It's not fair" generally doesn't work in the courts, and in any case the AFL could have pointed to a genuine assistance package that was rejected.

To be honest, at the time I was opposed to the relocation attempt, but in hindsight given how atrociously run the Suns have been I'd have to say I was wrong.

In 2009 all clubs received between $4,733,426 (Western Bulldogs) and $1,733,453 (Adelaide) above their base distribution. Carlton for example received an extra $3,528,088 above their base distribution.

So what? From memory wasn't there a big TV deal that got signed around that time which resulted in a big increase to clubs?

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Having been there at Dallas Brooks Hall that day back in '07, I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, it turned out that Jimmy Brayshaw was right all along.

At DBH, JB was going on and on about the 'core business' and so forth, and it is cool to see that he turned out to be right.

From 'cash-strapped' (cheers, Caro) to debt-free in 14 years ✔

Also cool to see Eugene and Brad Scotts there for the announcement the other day.

I felt Scotts hung around a little too long at the end of his tenure, but when you're on good coin, I can see how tempting it would be to wait for somebody to push you, rather than jumping at the right time.

It was the same with Laidley, who I liked as a coach: towards the end, it was time to go.

Was it Buckley who finally pushed Scotts out the door a couple years ago? I seem to recall it being something like that.

Anyway it appears that massive kudos has to go to Buckley for how well the club had gone off-field

On the other hand, there's something about the club these days which does not sit well with me.

The elephant in the room is the Shaw situation.

To this day we still have not been given any kind of reasonable explanation about what happened.

It never seems to be spoken about on the North board (perhaps there is some silencing going on).

Then there are the changes which were made to how members can nominate for the board.

They closed the shop a few years ago, and unless something has changed, it is still a closed shop.

There's another major issue I have with the club's direction but I'll save it for now.

Anyway, here's to 14 years, and again, well done to everybody who helped save the club.