North lodges plan for massive Arden Street upgrade

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BringBackTorps

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It is interesting that little ol' Tas. can produce very competitive professional cricket teams, & GR cricket is apparently thriving in Tas.
Cricket Tasmania employs 73 FT staff (not inc. players, game day ground staff etc.).

If a Tas. SOO team today played a Vic. SOO team, I expect it would lose by about 35 goals to about 3 goals. -but in the past, Tas,. won a few interstate games, & was generally reasonably competitive for 80+ years

AFL, you are the self-proclaimed "custodian of the game". FAIL.
 

BobbyMorri

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It is interesting that little ol' Tas. can produce very competitive professional cricket teams, & GR cricket is apparently thriving in Tas.
Cricket Tasmania employs 73 FT staff (not inc. players, game day ground staff etc.).

If a Tas. SOO team today played a Vic. SOO team, I expect it would lose by about 35 goals to about 3 goals. -but in the past, Tas,. won a few interstate games, & was generally reasonably competitive for 80+ years

AFL, you are the self-proclaimed "custodian of the game". FAIL.
i dont want to get this too off topic hopefully this will be short.

After we got a First Class team, our level of cricket improved significantly after a slow build. you only have to look at the number of baggy greens before 1980 and after 1980 to see the difference. There is no doubt our level of footy is struggling because of a lack of an elite team with coaches and juniors setups etc etc. that is a common pattern here among all sports. If there is no link to the mainland, we don't produce any quality. I don't know enough about the North Melbourne Academy to comment. Hopefully, things change cause they have to. 1 kid drafted in the last 2 years is a sad indictment of the game, let alone the Tassie one.

does GR stand for grade cricket? anyway, Tassie cricket has been struggling in recent years due to mismanagement among other things which i won't go on about. Our grade cricket, especially in the North of the state is in a pitiful state and we are seeing the after effects of it on the Tiger team, with a lack of quality Tasmanians involved and our youth teams struggling. We recently had Mike Hussey down here to produce a report to fix this mess. Unlike AFL Tas, Cricket Tasmania resolved to sot out the mess before it got to AFL level bad. we a new CEO who i have heard only expects the best. Even in this down phase, cricket would have produced more nationally ready players than AFL.
 

BobbyMorri

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How many people travel to Tasmania to watch a Hurricaines game from the mainland vs for an AFL game?
Judging by the article, the AFL and clearly. T20 is still young and they are more franchises more than clubs I feel. It is a weird sport, T20 cricket.

Thing is, Summer is when we don't need any more tourists down here. Our Summer is tourist season and it is very busy already. If someone is coming down here, they might catch a cricket game if it is on. But 99% of the time, they would come for something else. please note, i am talking BBL. International games have a different audience and are not around the summer holiday area if held in Hobart.

In Winter(etc AFL), we get tourists in the off-peak season and the roles reversed. That is, you come down for an AFL game, and stay because you have to. that is my take on it anyway
 

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Silent Alarm

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Going to be pretty crazy for the area when there's an actual train station, can see it really becoming a big area when it gets up. Such a shame the old grandstand at Arden Street wasn't kept as it would look good amongst all this, but will be good for North Melbourne Football Club and pretty exciting for the local area. Can only imagine it revitalising nearby suburbs as well.

Don't give a sh*t at all about AFLW, no interest, but it could really do some favours for old suburban grounds. I hope they're all done up well and not half arsed like how they wrecked Western Oval (seriously joining those two grandstands was a hack job, the 'facade' at the front was already dated when it went up). Going to be very interesting to see how these grounds are all faring in 15 years.
 

Tas

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This Arden St. Ground dev. is very good news for NMFC -as will the "new" rezoned suburbs of Macaulay & Arden (previously Industrial/warehouse precincts). Macaulay will have c.10,000 new residents over the next 30 years; Arden will accomodate over the next 30 years an additional 15,000 residents -also in medium/high rise appts.
Total net new residents 25,000; net new jobs 43,500.

The AFL will be pleased that these "new" residential & commercial suburbs are very close to Docklands Stadium -& its desire to convert DS into a 365 day pa, highly profitable entertainment/conference venue (ala Soldiers Field Stadium Chicago, the modern prototype, used 365 day pa).

www.theurbandeveloper.com/Vic-government-creates-new-suburb-cbd-edge/

https://vpa.vic.gov.au/project/arden/

I disagree, however, that Arden St should hold AFLW games for the following reasons:-

. there is, literally, nothing left of old Arden St -the old Grandstand demolished, embankments levelled out. Spectators at AFLW games should have properly tiered embankments, so they can CLEARLY see the playing action -ie not have their views obstructed by spectators in front (similar problem with Coll. FC's dump at Oly. Park).

. the capacity would be inadequate, at c. 5,000, all standing room. There are no seats left.

. there is no shade for spectators. This is essential as the AFLW will almost certainly be played in the Nov.- March hot period to give it clear air from the AFL.

We should not compromise/diminish/demean the AFLW by providing obviously substandard/too small facilities for the football starved, 10,000?+ crowds that will attend in the off-season.

. NM/Tas home games should be in Tas. -who are desperately in need of AFL "love" & development due to the destruction of GR AF there.
NM supporters will have plenty of opportunity to see their AFLW team play in Melb. away games.

. Whilst the 2 new suburbs will deliver a net 25,000 new residents over the next 30 years, Melb. is NOW having explosive growth in its nthn/NW suburbs -c.1,000,000+ people. It is in NMFC's strategic interest to cultivate fan growth in these massive areas with Academy Programs, & the odd VFL, AFLW, or VFLW (Melb. Uni.) match.
The Nth Melb. inner suburban area will always be miniscule in population (& appartment living/small houses have very few children). If 2 stadiums can facilitate 9 men's teams in the AFL, we certainly don't need a huge number of AFL-quality stadiums for the AFLW.

.The inner Nth/NW areas of Melb. have a disproportionately high % of recently arrived immigrants -who, generally, have:-
- little interest in AF
- no interest in sport, or prefer soccer
- lower financial/car ownership options to pursue Club sport.
The middle & outer Nth/NW demographics are far more favourable for NMFC to pursue the urgent need for North to grow its fan base.
The main benefit of the Arden Street area, which we are looking to expand, is that we have already moved the NMCC to a specialised cricket oval so the oval we do have is available for football all year round.

I think the AFL are really keen on having another venue to play games at, other than Docklands, because cricket and soccer limit the ability of where they can play games and when. They were very keen to have a look at the area during our pre-season and women's game earlier this year and they gave it the thumbs up.

Sure, there isn't any seating there now so the attendance would be limited in the short-term, however, I think there will be scope to build some seating in the future and don't foresee us having capacity issues in the short-term. Collingwood only drew 2,500 people to their last home game against Adelaide, Melbourne 2,500. Dogs seems to have the best following in Melbourne atm and they would still fit around a standless oval, we used to get 30k to Arden Street games when seating capacity was very limited. However, there is a difference in terms of comfort. Standing around isn't ideal, especially for this fat generation.

I think longer-term, the hope is that AFLW kicks off to the extent that games would grow in demand that they would be played at Docklands or other suitable stadiums that can handle larger crowds in comfort.
 

Great8

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Back on topic - when we get this up for 2019, it will quickly shoe how important having an AFLW team is, especially in context of a "three team club".

Hawthorn and Essendon have missed the boat here, though they will rapidly catch up in one sense when they get their own W teams.

Thing is, Essendon will be playing their games at Arden Street.
When?
Starting a $18m upgrade of Tulla this year to improve training facilities for the VFLW side and I was under the impression Windy Hill is having money spent on it aswell and the VFL and VFLW sides would play from there. I thought the AFLW side when it’s gets approved will play from Windy Hill also
 

MaddAdam

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Going to be pretty crazy for the area when there's an actual train station, can see it really becoming a big area when it gets up. Such a shame the old grandstand at Arden Street wasn't kept as it would look good amongst all this, but will be good for North Melbourne Football Club and pretty exciting for the local area. Can only imagine it revitalising nearby suburbs as well.

Don't give a sh*t at all about AFLW, no interest, but it could really do some favours for old suburban grounds. I hope they're all done up well and not half arsed like how they wrecked Western Oval (seriously joining those two grandstands was a hack job, the 'facade' at the front was already dated when it went up). Going to be very interesting to see how these grounds are all faring in 15 years.
It was totally rooted and unsaveable.
 

MaddAdam

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When?
Starting a $18m upgrade of Tulla this year to improve training facilities for the VFLW side and I was under the impression Windy Hill is having money spent on it aswell and the VFL and VFLW sides would play from there. I thought the AFLW side when it’s gets approved will play from Windy Hill also
I may be wrong then - wasn't aware the bowls club was allowing that.
 

Silent Alarm

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When?
Starting a $18m upgrade of Tulla this year to improve training facilities for the VFLW side and I was under the impression Windy Hill is having money spent on it aswell and the VFL and VFLW sides would play from there. I thought the AFLW side when it’s gets approved will play from Windy Hill also
When Essendon moved out to Tullamarine, I remember a strangely written press release where it essentially said 'Essendon will always have a presence at Windy Hill, including some VFL games in the next season and possibly longer.' To me it read a lot like Collingwood slowly going away from Vic Park.

To be honest neither make sense to me... Vic Park and Windy Hill are unique grounds and a lot of people would be surprised how formed a lot of the stands are. It gives that nostalgia buzz. I wouldn't go out to hot, windy, arid Tullamarine but I'd go watch a game at Windy Hill no problem.

I think he's saying clubs in the nearby area will be forced to play games at Arden Street if it becomes a hub for AFLW/VFL.

To me the more realistic permanent, full time option is Optus Oval and as it should be. Otherwise each club will have an adequate option for hosting second tier games at their training/traditional ground.
 

Great8

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I may be wrong then - wasn't aware the bowls club was allowing that.
Don’t think Windy Hill is getting major upgrades, probably just enough to allow our VFLW side and VFL side to continue playing there. Tulla transport is rubbish at the moment so I’d imagine Games will still be played at Windy Hill especially if we are trying to grow our fan base
 

BringBackTorps

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Vic Park and Windy Hill are unique grounds and a lot of people would be surprised how formed a lot of the stands are. It gives that nostalgia buzz.[!!!YES!!!] I wouldn't go out to hot, windy, arid Tullamarine[Shocker For Fans] but I'd go watch a game at Windy Hill no problem.To me the more realistic permanent, full time option is Optus Oval and as it should be.[!!! NO NO NO!!!}.
We must keep the traditional VFL grounds for the AFLW that still retain:-
. their grandstands
. Properly TIERED viewing areas -so fans can actually get a good view of the game: flat area dont offer this. (The Oly.Park dump is an example of poor sight lines).

A problem is that the old grounds have lost their fences -how do we "secure"them when we want to charge for AFLW entry. How expensive would erecting permanent metal cyclone fences be? Council agree (but kept unlocked for non-game times)?

We have a responsibility to keep for younger generations the GREAT atmosphere & tradition of PACKED, heaving standingroom areas/old charming grandstands; & in the warm/hot AFLW summer comp., full strength beer (encourages fans to be more "vocal"-we dont need idiots on the PA system playing rock music, or encouraging people to cheer!). These Points Of Difference cf. AFL games would enhance the AFLW's popularity.
No problem in having Dry Areas for those who dislike an "exhuberant" thirstycrowd.

In EFC's detailed submission for an AFLW team, where did it nominate it would play its games?
Did NMFC ever discuss with its members, before demolishing the only grandstand it had, what specifically were its problems; & cost of rectifying these problems?
 

Silent Alarm

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I believe Arden Street's grandstand had white ants or something and the wood was just about to fall in on itself. Obviously the club didn't have a lot of money when it was at breaking point in the 90s and again in the 2000s, but these days surely they would have been able to do something. The betting ring thing out the back was there until about 2007 or so too and is now gone, as were the metal 'seats' near the fence. You can't keep everything and shouldn't keep some things but you only get one chance at keeping these things. St Kilda's approach to Moorabbin is to tear down everything and build it all again, whereas there was still a fair portion of the grandstand left (and its awesome 70s/80s ugly facade) and they just got rid of it.
 

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Bunk Moreland

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When Essendon moved out to Tullamarine, I remember a strangely written press release where it essentially said 'Essendon will always have a presence at Windy Hill, including some VFL games in the next season and possibly longer.' To me it read a lot like Collingwood slowly going away from Vic Park.

To be honest neither make sense to me... Vic Park and Windy Hill are unique grounds and a lot of people would be surprised how formed a lot of the stands are. It gives that nostalgia buzz. I wouldn't go out to hot, windy, arid Tullamarine but I'd go watch a game at Windy Hill no problem.

I think he's saying clubs in the nearby area will be forced to play games at Arden Street if it becomes a hub for AFLW/VFL.

To me the more realistic permanent, full time option is Optus Oval and as it should be. Otherwise each club will have an adequate option for hosting second tier games at their training/traditional ground.
Think we’d all prefer to play at Windy Hill but the club is upgrading Tulla for games (full Home/Away rooms etc) so I imagine that’s the ultimate plan for the reserves.
 

Snake_Baker

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Mofra

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Interesting the YMCA facilities and pool are both getting massive upgrades at the same time the Kensington YMCA complex is undergoing an 18 month upgrade.
Makes sense to build Arden up given the underground station is being built there and population density in inner urban areas are part of a long term push towards having more people commuting by means other than car.
 

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