North Melbourne Priority Pick 2021

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Fat Tony!

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Don't agree with the handing out of Priority Picks given the secret formula they use to determine who and when they are handed out.

However, what I am a strong advocate for is the introduction of a Priority Draft Round which sees all of the non-finalists get an extra pick (according to ladder position and in draft order) prior to the First Round proper.

It would look like this :

Picks 1-10 : Priority Round
Picks 11-28 : First Round
Picks 29-46 : Second Round

By bringing this in, it automatically helps the under-performing teams and re-distributes talent where it is needed. If you have just played finals, your list can't be that bad so it is not in as much need for new draft talent.

Furthermore, if a finalist wants a pick in the Priority Round, then they have to trade a player of value to get it which once again goes towards the principle of evening out the competition.

As it is, the system is geared up for teams to build up over a period of time and then have a reasonably long period of dominance before falling back down and going through the whole process again.

What we aren't seeing is teams come from virtually nowhere and have an impact which if it was to occur, would add way more excitement & theatre to the competition.

The other thing this system does do is reward good management (or encourages it) as shrewd decisions can yield better results in a shorter amount of time.
I like this idea but I would combine it with a lottery for the top 20 picks based on games won/lost like the NBA. That way a really bad side would be more likely to get two early picks and a side which finishes 9th would be more likely to get two picks in the teens.

If they introduced this system they could probably remove the compensation picks for free agents.
 

master bate

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Don't agree with the handing out of Priority Picks given the secret formula they use to determine who and when they are handed out.

However, what I am a strong advocate for is the introduction of a Priority Draft Round which sees all of the non-finalists get an extra pick (according to ladder position and in draft order) prior to the First Round proper.

It would look like this :

Picks 1-10 : Priority Round
Picks 11-28 : First Round
Picks 29-46 : Second Round

By bringing this in, it automatically helps the under-performing teams and re-distributes talent where it is needed. If you have just played finals, your list can't be that bad so it is not in as much need for new draft talent.

Furthermore, if a finalist wants a pick in the Priority Round, then they have to trade a player of value to get it which once again goes towards the principle of evening out the competition.

As it is, the system is geared up for teams to build up over a period of time and then have a reasonably long period of dominance before falling back down and going through the whole process again.

What we aren't seeing is teams come from virtually nowhere and have an impact which if it was to occur, would add way more excitement & theatre to the competition.

The other thing this system does do is reward good management (or encourages it) as shrewd decisions can yield better results in a shorter amount of time.
What that also does is:

1. Completely mess with the integrity of the finals given no team would want to finish 7th or 8th. You'd have a tankathon featuring teams in finals contention. People already thought Essendon shouldn't have played finals this year, imagine if that would cost them 10 draft spots. And gone is the drama of West Coast fighting it out against Brisbane.

2. Further incentivize tanking and long spells down the bottom

3. Makes it really hard for teams that reach a ceiling to get that extra little lift they need to actually contend, once again encouraging them to drop out of finals

4. Makes top teams trading in players nearly impossible. Which might have a negative impact when they end up screwing a bottom side by offering pick 30 for a player who's uncontracted and keen to leave.

Richmond won flags without a priority pick.

Melbourne had a heap of priority picks, wasted them all, got absolutely nowhere. Grimes, Morton, Maric, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Trengove, Scully, Toumpas, Watts and so on. Then the only bonus we got was pick 3 for Frawley. Who was worth a first rounder anyway. And we drafted Brayshaw who despite some positive press after the grand final is really pretty meh. If we got pick 14 for Frawley - which he was absolutely worth - we probably would've just picked Lever and saved a couple of firsts we gave up for him later.

Carlton had the mother of all priority picks, haven't got anywhere.

Gold Coast had draft after draft of extra picks.

There's more to be done with free agency opening up to help teams get experienced players that would improve teams far quicker than the draft. The more you incentivise the draft the more you encourage the gap between good and bad teams. In leagues with pure free agency like the NFL the gap between good and bad is really small because the bad teams get a lot of free cap each year to bring in better experienced players whilst the good teams know they can only keep so many players.
 

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master bate

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North will have the best midfield in the league in a few years time:

Thomas, Simpkin, LDU, Stephenson, Powell, Phillips, Horne-Francis.

Speed, skill, run, aerial ability, they'll have it all.

If they want to snag another pick for a key defender, ruck or back pocket I can see why, but they pulled the trigger on Brown and Higgins, cut a bunch of experienced players and played 3 or more first or second year midfielders for the first half of the season.

As soon as they got over some injuries - hardly a surprise because their fitness levels have been abysmal - and put some mature bodies on ball they started winning games.

How much of it was by design and how has been a happy accident I don't know but they're really well placed now. 2022 might be up and down. But otherwise they've executed the perfect tear it down, suffer through it and go from there rebuild. 2-3 years of pain will result in a decade of a solid base to build on. And they even got away with 2 of those years being covid impacted so they didn't have to subject members to 22 home games of pain.
 

LordLucifer

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I like this idea but I would combine it with a lottery for the top 20 picks based on games won/lost like the NBA. That way a really bad side would be more likely to get two early picks and a side which finishes 9th would be more likely to get two picks in the teens.

If they introduced this system they could probably remove the compensation picks for free agents.
(a) never have liked the lottery idea, at least with the system I am advocating, the clubs down the bottom that need help get it whereas there is some risk with a lottery.

(b) free agency compensation is a farce and should never have been brought in originally, what makes it worse is the rubbery formula they use to calculate it
 

LordLucifer

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What that also does is:

1. Completely mess with the integrity of the finals given no team would want to finish 7th or 8th. You'd have a tankathon featuring teams in finals contention. People already thought Essendon shouldn't have played finals this year, imagine if that would cost them 10 draft spots. And gone is the drama of West Coast fighting it out against Brisbane.

2. Further incentivize tanking and long spells down the bottom

3. Makes it really hard for teams that reach a ceiling to get that extra little lift they need to actually contend, once again encouraging them to drop out of finals

Which might have a negative impact when they end up screwing a bottom side by offering pick 30 for a player who's uncontracted and keen to leave.

Richmond won flags without a priority pick.

Melbourne had a heap of priority picks, wasted them all, got absolutely nowhere. Grimes, Morton, Maric, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Trengove, Scully, Toumpas, Watts and so on. Then the only bonus we got was pick 3 for Frawley. Who was worth a first rounder anyway. And we drafted Brayshaw who despite some positive press after the grand final is really pretty meh. If we got pick 14 for Frawley - which he was absolutely worth - we probably would've just picked Lever and saved a couple of firsts we gave up for him later.

Carlton had the mother of all priority picks, haven't got anywhere.

Gold Coast had draft after draft of extra picks.

There's more to be done with free agency opening up to help teams get experienced players that would improve teams far quicker than the draft. The more you incentivise the draft the more you encourage the gap between good and bad teams. In leagues with pure free agency like the NFL the gap between good and bad is really small because the bad teams get a lot of free cap each year to bring in better experienced players whilst the good teams know they can only keep so many players.
1. Completely mess with the integrity of the finals given no team would want to finish 7th or 8th. - good, win some more games and finish higher then !!

2. Further incentivize tanking and long spells down the bottom - no it doesn't, it does the complete opposite.

3. Makes it really hard for teams that reach a ceiling to get that extra little lift they need to actually contend, once again encouraging them to drop out of finals - develop your players better or get a better coach, and tell me, which clubs would prefer to drop out of the finals race - no-one that's who, this is a pathetic reason to poo-hoo the idea

4. Makes top teams trading in players nearly impossible. - FFS, how do you work that out ?? And that has been a problem for how long ...... oh yes, Melbourne won the premiership this year and they may be disadvantaged. :rolleyes:
 

master bate

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1. Completely mess with the integrity of the finals given no team would want to finish 7th or 8th. - good, win some more games and finish higher then !!

2. Further incentivize tanking and long spells down the bottom - no it doesn't, it does the complete opposite.

3. Makes it really hard for teams that reach a ceiling to get that extra little lift they need to actually contend, once again encouraging them to drop out of finals - develop your players better or get a better coach, and tell me, which clubs would prefer to drop out of the finals race - no-one that's who, this is a pathetic reason to poo-hoo the idea

4. Makes top teams trading in players nearly impossible. - FFS, how do you work that out ?? And that has been a problem for how long ...... oh yes, Melbourne won the premiership this year and they may be disadvantaged. :rolleyes:
1. So instead of GWS and Essendon playing in finals this year - the Sydney final was amazing, the Dogs-Bombers very good - we've got Freo and West Coast limping in because the Giants and Bombers tanked. How is that good? Someone will have to finish 7th and 8th and it will be rubbish. Completely unworkable.

2. In the priority pick era teams deliberately tried to stay down for priority picks. Yes some of them jumped up quickly but a lot of them didn't. Now the only teams that get trapped right down the bottom are rubbish organisations and have clear blueprints on how to get out. Only Carlton and the Gold Coast can't seem to work it out.

3. So Port and Brisbane - 2 very good sides but with work to do - don't get a draft pick until the 30's for consecutive years now. They'll be screwed. They'll either drop out voluntarily or eventually crash out. Why punish them for being good but not good enough to win and send them back down for 5+ years of accumulating picks. I love the idea of Geelong falling down, but the better way to do that is by cutting off the Cats free agency advantage by letting more teams sign younger free agents. Geelong keep hoovering up the over 28's because they are the only team that wants them and keeps winning games. If you can sign more 24-26 year olds the market on free agency will even out.

4. If Melbourne say Adam Cerra for pick 28, Freo can either accept it or we'll head to the courts for restraint of trade, is that good? Because I'm telling you now that's a situation that could very well happen. The Dees probably won't make a move for Cerra this year due to lack of a first rounder and other picks but at some stage clubs would target good players and if you strip them of all draft capital they can only offer what they've got.

Look at what the Cats gave up for Jezza Cameron. If you made all of the Cats picks in the late 20's they'd have just offered those up and the Giants would've had to lump it at some point. Either that or the whole system changes.
 

LordLucifer

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1. So instead of GWS and Essendon playing in finals this year - the Sydney final was amazing, the Dogs-Bombers very good - we've got Freo and West Coast limping in because the Giants and Bombers tanked. How is that good? Someone will have to finish 7th and 8th and it will be rubbish. Completely unworkable.

2. In the priority pick era teams deliberately tried to stay down for priority picks. Yes some of them jumped up quickly but a lot of them didn't. Now the only teams that get trapped right down the bottom are rubbish organisations and have clear blueprints on how to get out. Only Carlton and the Gold Coast can't seem to work it out.

3. So Port and Brisbane - 2 very good sides but with work to do - don't get a draft pick until the 30's for consecutive years now. They'll be screwed. They'll either drop out voluntarily or eventually crash out. Why punish them for being good but not good enough to win and send them back down for 5+ years of accumulating picks. I love the idea of Geelong falling down, but the better way to do that is by cutting off the Cats free agency advantage by letting more teams sign younger free agents. Geelong keep hoovering up the over 28's because they are the only team that wants them and keeps winning games. If you can sign more 24-26 year olds the market on free agency will even out.

4. If Melbourne say Adam Cerra for pick 28, Freo can either accept it or we'll head to the courts for restraint of trade, is that good? Because I'm telling you now that's a situation that could very well happen. The Dees probably won't make a move for Cerra this year due to lack of a first rounder and other picks but at some stage clubs would target good players and if you strip them of all draft capital they can only offer what they've got.

Look at what the Cats gave up for Jezza Cameron. If you made all of the Cats picks in the late 20's they'd have just offered those up and the Giants would've had to lump it at some point. Either that or the whole system changes.
Sometimes I read your posts and think you are a fairly level-headed person. Then there are occassions when i think you are off with the pixies and this is one of them.
 

Juddernaut08

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1. So instead of GWS and Essendon playing in finals this year - the Sydney final was amazing, the Dogs-Bombers very good - we've got Freo and West Coast limping in because the Giants and Bombers tanked. How is that good? Someone will have to finish 7th and 8th and it will be rubbish. Completely unworkable.

2. In the priority pick era teams deliberately tried to stay down for priority picks. Yes some of them jumped up quickly but a lot of them didn't. Now the only teams that get trapped right down the bottom are rubbish organisations and have clear blueprints on how to get out. Only Carlton and the Gold Coast can't seem to work it out.

3. So Port and Brisbane - 2 very good sides but with work to do - don't get a draft pick until the 30's for consecutive years now. They'll be screwed. They'll either drop out voluntarily or eventually crash out. Why punish them for being good but not good enough to win and send them back down for 5+ years of accumulating picks. I love the idea of Geelong falling down, but the better way to do that is by cutting off the Cats free agency advantage by letting more teams sign younger free agents. Geelong keep hoovering up the over 28's because they are the only team that wants them and keeps winning games. If you can sign more 24-26 year olds the market on free agency will even out.

4. If Melbourne say Adam Cerra for pick 28, Freo can either accept it or we'll head to the courts for restraint of trade, is that good? Because I'm telling you now that's a situation that could very well happen. The Dees probably won't make a move for Cerra this year due to lack of a first rounder and other picks but at some stage clubs would target good players and if you strip them of all draft capital they can only offer what they've got.

Look at what the Cats gave up for Jezza Cameron. If you made all of the Cats picks in the late 20's they'd have just offered those up and the Giants would've had to lump it at some point. Either that or the whole system changes.
It's not going to be a clean fight while you have the AFL-run clubs in Gold Coast and Melbourne (and to a lesser extent, GWS) meddled with. Those clubs can do whatever they like knowing they'll be bailed out with special appointments like Paul Roos and special ambassador roles like Coniglio. Not to mention the AFL propping them up financially.

GC, Dees and GWS - the AFL run clubs.
 

Bojan KantKick

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North will have the best midfield in the league in a few years time:

Thomas, Simpkin, LDU, Stephenson, Powell, Phillips, Horne-Francis.

Speed, skill, run, aerial ability, they'll have it all.

If they want to snag another pick for a key defender, ruck or back pocket I can see why, but they pulled the trigger on Brown and Higgins, cut a bunch of experienced players and played 3 or more first or second year midfielders for the first half of the season.

As soon as they got over some injuries - hardly a surprise because their fitness levels have been abysmal - and put some mature bodies on ball they started winning games.

How much of it was by design and how has been a happy accident I don't know but they're really well placed now. 2022 might be up and down. But otherwise they've executed the perfect tear it down, suffer through it and go from there rebuild. 2-3 years of pain will result in a decade of a solid base to build on. And they even got away with 2 of those years being covid impacted so they didn't have to subject members to 22 home games of pain.
Good post although I'd point out that it wasn't completely by design. Brown was abysmal in his last year for us and there were several reasons I'm sure you know about that meant parting ways was inevitable. As Geelong have found out, Higgo didn't have much left in the tank and we had an opportunity to get value for him. Higgo wanted to move closer to family and was a good servant for the club so we looked after him. If we kept all the mature bodies (none bar Wood were picked up by other clubs) we would still be a bottom 4 team and probably bottom 2 like the previous season.

What killed us early on was Tarrant missing the first half of the year after needing kidney surgery on the eve of the season, Aiden Corr missing pretty much the whole year with a toe injury, and Jed Anderson missing over half the season with an ankle injury. Once Tarrant came back the defence wasn't a sieve and our results improved. If he and Corr had been available for the whole season, we would have done a fair bit better, at least on the scoreboard if not the win column, in the first half of the season imo.
 

master bate

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Good post although I'd point out that it wasn't completely by design. Brown was abysmal in his last year for us and there were several reasons I'm sure you know about that meant parting ways was inevitable. As Geelong have found out, Higgo didn't have much left in the tank and we had an opportunity to get value for him. Higgo wanted to move closer to family and was a good servant for the club so we looked after him. If we kept all the mature bodies (none bar Wood were picked up by other clubs) we would still be a bottom 4 team and probably bottom 2 like the previous season.

What killed us early on was Tarrant missing the first half of the year after needing kidney surgery on the eve of the season, Aiden Corr missing pretty much the whole year with a toe injury, and Jed Anderson missing over half the season with an ankle injury. Once Tarrant came back the defence wasn't a sieve and our results improved. If he and Corr had been available for the whole season, we would have done a fair bit better, at least on the scoreboard if not the win column, in the first half of the season imo.
Corr would've been nice but probably would've just been the victim of the bags of goals. Tarrant and also McDonald as the defensive winger helped. Definitely needed a mature mid so instead of Powell, Lazzaro or Phillips and other young guys all playing it was just 1 of them at a time. Nothing was bigger than Cunnington turning back in to Cunnington in round 7 against the Dees and onwards from there. Just has to take him down to Tassie to get him back going.

Either way North will be onwards and upwards from here. They've got too many of the right pieces even if it's a bit bumpy next year.

The only worry is if they've lost their culture but I don't think they have. They fronted up year after year despite having Brad Scott as coach. They won't just give up now they've got serious people in charge.
 

master bate

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It's not going to be a clean fight while you have the AFL-run clubs in Gold Coast and Melbourne (and to a lesser extent, GWS) meddled with. Those clubs can do whatever they like knowing they'll be bailed out with special appointments like Paul Roos and special ambassador roles like Coniglio. Not to mention the AFL propping them up financially.

GC, Dees and GWS - the AFL run clubs.
Melbourne got fined for tanking. Tony Liberatore admitted on TV to tanking at the Blues and the Blues got - nothing.

Carlton had no trouble signing Mick Malthouse. How did that go?

Carlton have also been on financial assistance from the AFL whilst Melbourne have not been.

After Carlton payed overs to sign all the duds from GWS of course the Giants needed some extra cash to keep Coniglio.

You've got all the star players a team will ever need. All you need is a board, a CEO and a coach to stick together for a while and you might win some games.
 

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Elmer_Judd

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They've already got that sorted - Clarkson 2023. If Dew does well next year, Clarko will probably be the head development coach and take over if Dew falters.
Unless they play finals next year (unlikely) Dew is a dead man walking. In fact I reckon he will be gone by the bye round.
 

Juddernaut08

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Melbourne got fined for tanking. Tony Liberatore admitted on TV to tanking at the Blues and the Blues got - nothing.

Carlton had no trouble signing Mick Malthouse. How did that go?

Carlton have also been on financial assistance from the AFL whilst Melbourne have not been.

After Carlton payed overs to sign all the duds from GWS of course the Giants needed some extra cash to keep Coniglio.

You've got all the star players a team will ever need. All you need is a board, a CEO and a coach to stick together for a while and you might win some games.
Do you think it's a fair fight when the the AFL-run teams are propped up by basically unlimited funds? AFL-run clubs like GC, Dees and GWS can take any gamble without consequence.

Melbourne fined for tanking because they were found guilty of it. But then AFL basically paid your fine for you and then funded a full restructure of the club while picking and choosing key staff for you.

Priority picks are one thing, the AFL propping up clubs like the GC and Dees is a whole other level.
 

Juddernaut08

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They've already got that sorted - Clarkson 2023. If Dew does well next year, Clarko will probably be the head development coach and take over if Dew falters.
Yup - classic protection by head office for the AFL-run clubs.

GWS - Coniglio and others with special ambassador roles
Melbourne - Roos and others handpicked and fully funded by the AFL coffers
GC - Fully funded Clarko comeback tour
 

Ambrosia

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1. So instead of GWS and Essendon playing in finals this year - the Sydney final was amazing, the Dogs-Bombers very good - we've got Freo and West Coast limping in because the Giants and Bombers tanked. How is that good? Someone will have to finish 7th and 8th and it will be rubbish. Completely unworkable.

2. In the priority pick era teams deliberately tried to stay down for priority picks. Yes some of them jumped up quickly but a lot of them didn't. Now the only teams that get trapped right down the bottom are rubbish organisations and have clear blueprints on how to get out. Only Carlton and the Gold Coast can't seem to work it out.

3. So Port and Brisbane - 2 very good sides but with work to do - don't get a draft pick until the 30's for consecutive years now. They'll be screwed. They'll either drop out voluntarily or eventually crash out. Why punish them for being good but not good enough to win and send them back down for 5+ years of accumulating picks. I love the idea of Geelong falling down, but the better way to do that is by cutting off the Cats free agency advantage by letting more teams sign younger free agents. Geelong keep hoovering up the over 28's because they are the only team that wants them and keeps winning games. If you can sign more 24-26 year olds the market on free agency will even out.

4. If Melbourne say Adam Cerra for pick 28, Freo can either accept it or we'll head to the courts for restraint of trade, is that good? Because I'm telling you now that's a situation that could very well happen. The Dees probably won't make a move for Cerra this year due to lack of a first rounder and other picks but at some stage clubs would target good players and if you strip them of all draft capital they can only offer what they've got.

Look at what the Cats gave up for Jezza Cameron. If you made all of the Cats picks in the late 20's they'd have just offered those up and the Giants would've had to lump it at some point. Either that or the whole system changes.
Agree with everything you’ve written except the Geelong part. Geelong identifying that other teams are undervaluing over 28s and enticing them to Geelong with better contracts then other clubs are willing to offer is a good thing.
 

Ambrosia

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Sometimes I read your posts and think you are a fairly level-headed person. Then there are occassions when i think you are off with the pixies and this is one of them.
Im all for out of the box thinking but how could you suggest that someone who opposes the idea a draft system that sees 9th get pick 10 & 20 before 8th is even gets a draft selection is the one who is off with the pixies.
 

LordLucifer

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Im all for out of the box thinking but how could you suggest that someone who opposes the idea a draft system that sees 9th get pick 10 & 20 before 8th is even gets a draft selection is the one who is off with the pixies.
Look at the big picture, one team has played finals, the other hasn't. Which position would you want your club to be in ?? Everyone wants to play finals because you cannot win a premiership if you don't.

The AFL has tried to implement equalisation strategies with varying degrees of success. This draft plan means that clubs who are not playing finals can, on the basis of making smart choices, put themselves into finals contention way quicker than what it currently takes now.

If a finalist wants to improve their draft position, they can trade a player to get there. This also helps both teams, once again adding further weight to the equalisation expectation.

Also, if this was implemented, the free agent compensation should be scrapped too.
 

blitzer

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Look at the big picture, one team has played finals, the other hasn't. Which position would you want your club to be in ?? Everyone wants to play finals because you cannot win a premiership if you don't.
Playing finals isn't worth that much if you get bundled out first round. Let me ask you - do you see Essendon as a class above West Coast, St. Kilda and Freo? I mean we played finals...
 

master bate

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Just listened to North Melbourne List Manager Glen Luff on AFL Exchange.

Comes across as an extremely unimpressive human being.
Some red flags there .
There's no bigger red flag than being good mates with David King, but whenever I've head Luffy talk he's been very solid and since he's taken over North seem to actually have a plan on how to maximise draft capital and they've made some very good picks and trades.

Without giving much up - mainly because they had nothing to trade out of value - they've ended up with strong draft hands.

Getting something for Higgins. Turning Ben Brown in to Stephenson then signing CCJ a year later. Really good stuff.

They lost me a little with the Phillips over Logan Mc or DGB pick justification which was to 'draft mids first before talls'. That's nonsense. Draft the best player available especially when you have a great midfield group building anyway. But I'm hoping that was just the party line they came up with.
 

LordLucifer

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Playing finals isn't worth that much if you get bundled out first round. Let me ask you - do you see Essendon as a class above West Coast, St. Kilda and Freo? I mean we played finals...
Okay then, if you qualify for finals in the future, then just forfeit the match and be done with it.

Or, lets go back to the Final four system.
 

master bate

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Agree with everything you’ve written except the Geelong part. Geelong identifying that other teams are undervaluing over 28s and enticing them to Geelong with better contracts then other clubs are willing to offer is a good thing.
Not sure it's better contracts that entices those players to Geelong. They've tacted on 2nd years to guys like Steven and Higgins to help them move, but I'm pretty sure Isaac Smith turned down money to go to Geelong over Melbourne (his loss). Lifestyle and guaranteed to be towards the top of the ladder with a coach unafraid to play veterans seems their big recruiting strategy.

The thing that is unfair is that the Cats paid a lot less for Jeremy Cameron than the Eagles did for Tim Kelly. In fact the Dockers might pay a fair amount for Jordan Clark and when you look at the real world value of Cameron - pick 15 and 2 marginal down grades - you see that the value of free agents even with a matched bid.

North paid Aidan Corr last year because he was the only free agent they could get really. GWS alone had about 25 more talented players yet alone the rest of the comp.

If you want to help the struggling sides then it's time to open up more free agency and let them attack the market and get someone of value. Yes they'll lose more players than they gain at times, which is exactly how it is now. But at least if they get a good draft crop and look good their money will be worth something on the open market.
 

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