News North records another profit

Lebit

Rookie
Dec 6, 2005
37
53
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
North
Okay so having a read of some other clubs financials here's what I've learnt:
Worth noting that the North, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda and Melbourne ones are pretty easy to understand
Carlton & Geelong are not to bad
Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwoods are close to impossible as everything is summarised.


The revenue ceiling for a club from football is about $45 million
Any revenue on top of this tends to come from pokies or other businesses
Pokies don't actually look like that good an investment- You seems to make a return of about 10-15%, but entry costs are high - i.e. Carlton spent $16 million to generate $19 million - there are more socially acceptable and easier ways of getting that return.

Yes our gate receipts are f**cked - the difference between a Marvel club and someone like Melbourne or Hawthorn is about $5 million a year
But this is offset by the AFL payments - the Marvel clubs (except Carl and Ess) all get large payments from the AFL - 49.5% of St Kilda's revenue comes directly from the AFL.

Sponsorship is about on par for everyone. Carlton, Geelong, Essendon, Bulldogs, Melbourne and North all have about $12 million in sponsorships, again St Kilda the worse at $7.2 million

now onto memberships.....
 

Lebit

Rookie
Dec 6, 2005
37
53
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
North
This is tough as only 6 clubs break out memberships from gate receipts, but here they are Revenue from Memberships, Total Member numbers and thus the revenue per member.

RevenueMembersRevenue per memberHome games
Hawthorm $ 12,266,752 80,302 $ 152.764 games in Launceston
NMFC $ 6,300,000 40,789 $ 154.454 games in Hobart
St Kilda $ 7,234,051 46,301 $ 156.241 game in China
Essendon $ 14,239,407 79,319 $ 179.52All games in Melbourne
Bulldogs $ 8,013,361 43,246 $ 185.30All games in victoria
Melb $ 9,591,733 44,275 $ 216.642 games in the NT

Obviously if you play home games interstate then you forego member money in Melbourne where most of your members will be.
We earn about the same per member as Hawthorn which probably tells you the ceiling you can have under the Melb/Tasmania model.
Western Bulldogs probably shows what most of us would want with all the home game in Victoria - it's worth about $30 more a year per member, but you obviously loose the Tassie members, and the Tassie sponsorship money and whatever else we get from being down there. Just on Membership revenue breakeven point would be about 35,000 Melbourne based members.
 

big_e

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 28, 2008
5,447
14,603
Your Wi-Fi
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Wycombe Wanderers, 76ers
As an aside, if
This is tough as only 6 clubs break out memberships from gate receipts, but here they are Revenue from Memberships, Total Member numbers and thus the revenue per member.

RevenueMembersRevenue per memberHome games
Hawthorm$ 12,266,752 80,302$ 152.764 games in Launceston
NMFC$ 6,300,000 40,789$ 154.454 games in Hobart
St Kilda$ 7,234,051 46,301$ 156.241 game in China
Essendon$ 14,239,407 79,319$ 179.52All games in Melbourne
Bulldogs$ 8,013,361 43,246$ 185.30All games in victoria
Melb$ 9,591,733 44,275$ 216.642 games in the NT
Obviously if you play home games interstate then you forego member money in Melbourne where most of your members will be.

We earn about the same per member as Hawthorn which probably tells you the ceiling you can have under the Melb/Tasmania model.
Western Bulldogs probably shows what most of us would want with all the home game in Victoria - it's worth about $30 more a year per member, but you obviously loose the Tassie members, and the Tassie sponsorship money and whatever else we get from being down there. Just on Membership revenue breakeven point would be about 35,000 Melbourne based members.
Good stat. Also worth mentioning the year by year revenue from memberships for NMFC in recent years. Almost a million bucks less than it was at its peak.

2019​
2018​
2017​
2016​
2015​
Membership 6,305,423 6,280,687 6,593,189 7,263,161 6,511,612
 

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Snake_Baker

L'enfant terrible
Apr 24, 2013
57,632
108,820
inside your head
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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The Unicornia Reactants
As an aside, if

Good stat. Also worth mentioning the year by year revenue from memberships for NMFC in recent years. Almost a million bucks less than it was at its peak.

2019​
2018​
2017​
2016​
2015​
Membership 6,305,423 6,280,687 6,593,189 7,263,161 6,511,612
Win games of AFL football. The one and only solution to bulletproofing the club's future.

Everything else is meaningless bullshit.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
53,255
36,276
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Few things I take from the reading of the financial reports (not an accountant by any means but consider myself fairly financially literate)

There is no reason for the club to make a huge profit - we don't return dividends, we don't have huge debts to pay down, given we just did the redevelopment we've not saving for anything as such. What you want to do make money to increase spending in our core business - football and playing better football.
The soft cap on football department spending has reduced the on-field advantage from making a lot of money, however, it is desirable to make a large profit where possible, however, it is not the only consideration as it is for a for-profit entity. I would be all for the club making a lot of money through merchandise sales, corporate sponsorships, advertising, premium membership revenue and corporate box sales. I just don't want to see us do what West Coast does and that is screw the average punter to make a lot of money and by doing so make it harder for fans that don't have a lot of money from having access to the footy. I don't really care how much corporations get reamed because these type of functions and access to corporate boxes are for privileged people and they can afford and do pay a premium for access to such services.

Being able to accumulate a lot more money than we need for the short-term allows us to invest for the future. At present we have an AFL that supports smaller clubs, that hasn't always been the case, we had a very hostile administration not that long ago. We currently receive future fund distribution to the tune of $5m or so a year, this isn't guaranteed to continue indefinitely and the AFL said a more lucrative stadium deal will result in the future fund being cut back or phased out. We also receive a significant amount of money from the sale of games to Tasmania, as much as people preferred we didn't, we do so because we do not make enough money.

Being financially weak, by comparison to many other clubs makes us vulnerable. AFL tried giving us the shiv before, it was an act of god that prevented Tasmania accepting co-location which was offered by our board before. Being vulnerable exposes you to greater existential risk. If the next AFL CEO was someone who would want to see smaller clubs culled and would try and do that by cutting off all financial support for Melbourne clubs, we would need the means to stand on our. If that hypothetical happened say next year and we also lost Tasmania, things would not be as good as they are atm.

So given that objective consider this..
We increased revenue by about $4million.
We increased spending on football by about $4 million (basically job done in my book)

The reality is the biggest effect on financials will in on field success, from that flows members, attendance and sponsors
given the lack of on field success the following points look promising:

Membership - 1,600 odd less members year on year but revenue about level - this suggests the club is doing a reasonable job convincing us to buy more expensive categories of membership, or just put the costs up.
Sponsorship and Sales - this is up by 26% year on year (or about $2.5 million) - that's pretty impressive for a bit of a 'nothing' year.

Also worth looking at where the revenue comes from - AFL distributions 39%, Sponsorships 26%, Memberships 14%, Gate receipts 6% fundraising (excl redev) 6%
Not sure how different this is to other clubs (given some time I might have a look) but you realise how tough it is to dramatically increase revenue without huge on field success

all in all IMHO this is looks like a pretty good result given the circumstances
I agree that success and in particular sustained success is critical to future survivability, it will make it easier for us to gain members, it will be easier for the club to sell merchandise, corporate sponsorship, advertising and we will get better tv schedule which means better exposure. We have to do a lot better than we have in recent history. That being said, we aren't going to get the type of boost Richmond get when they extracted the digit.

We need to get the club in the best possible position while the AFL administration is still supporting of smaller clubs, it will be considerably harder to get the on-field side up to scratch if we have to suddenly cut back football department spending significantly if forced to reign in our spending. Us not having the resources is why our recruitment and player development suffered for so long. We've done whatever was required to survive in the past, but it has long-term consequences on-field. We need to break the shackles of being a battler club who plays a stodgy brand of poor skill football.

I think Wyndham will be a great boon for us, but that is a very long-term development. Tasmania is likely to happen in the shorter-term, we need to position ourselves so we are not set back when it happens, we need to use coming home as a launch pad for something positive. I think the next few years is critical for us as a club, we really need to get the on-field situation up to scratch. We have the 6th best list according to the AFL, we need to stop playing bottom four football for significant chunks of a season.
 

tazaa

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 11, 2007
21,953
29,059
Melbourne
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I'm still pissed off they stole another game from us for Hobart without a by your leave 2 minutes after putting their hand out for more cash. Can honestly say the days of me "donating" extras or supporting raffles just cos are over. When they treat me the members with more respect they might earn that privilege back.
No Bull was all bull and still is
I try and defend the current Board but that one stunk. Don't forget it was going to guarantee us four wins and a final spot.
See above
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
14,853
24,679
Ponderama
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We've done whatever was required to survive in the past, but it has long-term consequences on-field. We need to break the shackles of being a battler club who plays a stodgy brand of poor skill football.
Agree completely.

I think Wyndham will be a great boon for us, but that is a very long-term development. Tasmania is likely to happen in the shorter-term, we need to position ourselves so we are not set back when it happens, we need to use coming home as a launch pad for something positive.
Agree again. This for me is the most critical measure we need to plan for over the next 5-10 years. We were not in a position in the early 2010's to make the most of being 100% Melbourne based given we were still scratchy financially and had the decision effectively forced onto us... we need to ensure if and more likely when this happens that we are 100% poised and ready to make the most of it rather than seeing the move fully to Vic as a negative.

We have the 6th best list according to the AFL, we need to stop playing bottom four football for significant chunks of a season.
Yep. The exact reason Brad Scott had to go when he came out saying we need to rebuild again.

When you talk about bottom four football you are correct. We took Richmond (the eventual Premiers) apart last year but at no point where they not actively pushing to get back in the game, if we'd let up for 30 mins they could have done damage to us. That's where we need to get to IMO, it's not about never losing games, even the greatest teams lose games but we have to be in every single game on its own merits. I won't even go into the long list of games last year that we gave up on our own.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
53,255
36,276
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Once again you show how naive you are. Based on your theory, after our 90’s success we should be one of the largest clubs in Melbourne.
I think without that period we would have been dead tbh. Our club made an avalanche of bad executive decisions which imo would have seen our club die before Fitzroy if it wasn't for that 90s era boon. It gave us the opportunity to bumble our way from being an amatuer football club to being a professional one we are today.

We have much better foundations to build a successful club than we did back then. What has hurt us is the lack of expectation, not just that people don't expect us to win, but we don't know if our team is going to even try in all aspects or execute very well. Is the team that got flogged 9.5 vs 21.15 against Fremantle going to rock up or the 15.9 vs 9.8 against Richmond show up? The 11.15 vs 5.7 against Collingwood team or the 7.16 vs 17.14 against the Bombers. The 1.8 vs 9.15 against Geelong or the 22.12 vs 8.10 against Port Adelaide.

It is not so much the expectation of winning, but the expectation of playing to your potential against inferior sides and the expectation of at least putting up a fight against good sides. It doesn't matter if a team is good or bad, we can show up and pressure against one team, then just not come prepared to put the heat on in the next game. The massive rollercoaster, even during the Shaw period, is what we have to depart from, not just to become a better team, but to become a team that has the expectation that punters can organise to go and watch without having to be embarrassed about the effort shown. You need that expectation of being in the hunt before the season starts.

People will show up a lot more consistently and more readily be prepared to purchase memberships if they feel they can go to a game and have a pretty good chance of seeing their team give a good account for themselves. We currently are playing a Russian roulette band where it is going to be very good or pretty bad. That is the challenge for Shaw and the club, a lot of that revolves around our midfield problems imo, but there are too many games where you just don't see the chasing and tackling, the perceived pressure. We are one of the worst tackling sides and you can't be a slow overly inside/stoppage oriented team that lacks endurance that also can't tackle or pressure. Whatever style we play, we have to be able to execute it and consistently.
 

Limerick

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2006
3,251
1,082
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It is our image, as seen by those outside our supporter base, that is holding back our growth. Yes, on-field success and consistency are a component of our future success as a club but we won't grow until we are seen as a true Victorian Club. When Tassie gets its own team, we will lose around 80% of the Tassie members.
 

kangatime

Premium Platinum
Mar 29, 2009
9,851
13,963
kangaplace
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I think without that period we would have been dead tbh. Our club made an avalanche of bad executive decisions which imo would have seen our club die before Fitzroy if it wasn't for that 90s era boon. It gave us the opportunity to bumble our way from being an amatuer football club to being a professional one we are today.

We have much better foundations to build a successful club than we did back then. What has hurt us is the lack of expectation, not just that people don't expect us to win, but we don't know if our team is going to even try in all aspects or execute very well. Is the team that got flogged 9.5 vs 21.15 against Fremantle going to rock up or the 15.9 vs 9.8 against Richmond show up? The 11.15 vs 5.7 against Collingwood team or the 7.16 vs 17.14 against the Bombers. The 1.8 vs 9.15 against Geelong or the 22.12 vs 8.10 against Port Adelaide.

It is not so much the expectation of winning, but the expectation of playing to your potential against inferior sides and the expectation of at least putting up a fight against good sides. It doesn't matter if a team is good or bad, we can show up and pressure against one team, then just not come prepared to put the heat on in the next game. The massive rollercoaster, even during the Shaw period, is what we have to depart from, not just to become a better team, but to become a team that has the expectation that punters can organise to go and watch without having to be embarrassed about the effort shown. You need that expectation of being in the hunt before the season starts.

People will show up a lot more consistently and more readily be prepared to purchase memberships if they feel they can go to a game and have a pretty good chance of seeing their team give a good account for themselves. We currently are playing a Russian roulette band where it is going to be very good or pretty bad. That is the challenge for Shaw and the club, a lot of that revolves around our midfield problems imo, but there are too many games where you just don't see the chasing and tackling, the perceived pressure. We are one of the worst tackling sides and you can't be a slow overly inside/stoppage oriented team that lacks endurance that also can't tackle or pressure. Whatever style we play, we have to be able to execute it and consistently.
TLDR, but a quick skim seems to say, yes, winning is not the only thing.

If Winning was the only thing Richmond and Essendon would be playing out of Tasmania.
 

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kangatime

Premium Platinum
Mar 29, 2009
9,851
13,963
kangaplace
AFL Club
North Melbourne
It is our image, as seen by those outside our supporter base, that is holding back our growth. Yes, on-field success and consistency are a component of our future success as a club but we won't grow until we are seen as a true Victorian Club. When Tassie gets its own team, we will lose around 80% of the Tassie members.
People can bang on about being a Melbourne Club but a quarter of our members would be from interstate.

If a Tassie team comes in it will go close to killing us off. We’ll be playing Eagles on a Sunday avo in front of 15k and it’ll completely screw our image.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
53,255
36,276
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
TLDR, but a quick skim seems to say, yes, winning is not the only thing.

If Winning was the only thing Richmond and Essendon would be playing out of Tasmania.
Winning is critical, being shithouse crippled clubs like Richmond and Carlton and being weak at the wrong time killed Fitzroy.
 

kangatime

Premium Platinum
Mar 29, 2009
9,851
13,963
kangaplace
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Winning is critical, being shithouse crippled clubs like Richmond and Carlton and being weak at the wrong time killed Fitzroy.
Sure. But you can’t expect it to fix everything m. Any new supports we attract because we are winning are either young kids or those new to the game.
 

Grogg

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 24, 2012
5,936
13,691
Womb with a view
AFL Club
North Melbourne
People can bang on about being a Melbourne Club but a quarter of our members would be from interstate.
Fair call.

Why is that you think?

I'd say that percentage would also be in line with most other clubs across the league, the problem being the smaller core membership number.

If a Tassie team comes in it will go close to killing us off. We’ll be playing Eagles on a Sunday avo in front of 15k and it’ll completely screw our image.
Our image in Melbourne is Still The Travelling Rooburys.
 

tazaa

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 11, 2007
21,953
29,059
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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I'd be very surprised if Heath still cared enough about this place to respond to your potshot. Let's not be such cowards.
Ofcourse he doesn’t.
I’ve been here long enough to know that mate.
However just because he’s employed by the club he isn’t immune from what I say was a pretty shonky exit when emotions were running hot.

There may be a few cowards in your opinion on here and I ain’t one of them.

Heath’s exit left plenty to be desired. He couldn’t hack the passion of North people and that to me isn’t North-like.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
53,255
36,276
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Sure. But you can’t expect it to fix everything m. Any new supports we attract because we are winning are either young kids or those new to the game.
Fix everything? The only problem we have is we have a much smaller supporter base than other clubs. Every other issue we have is a symptom of that.

Collingwood have membership and ticket sales revenue in 2018 of $23,871,536. We had $8,035,194.
Collingwood had Corporate and Marketing sales in 2018 of $21,670,974 (i think includes merchandise). We had $9,160,352 and $765,518 for merchandise.

We were $27,581,446 behind them in just the fundamental operational side of football revenue and the revenue growth gap widened in 2019. Richmond's revenue grew to $92,244,775 in 2019, almost $19m more than Collingwood last year.

The year we sent Richmond packing in the elimination final (2015), Richmond's revenue was $46,706,020 vs our $37,459,111. That is the difference between being a finals laughing stock and winning two flags, particularly if you have the supporter base.

We don't have Richmond's supporter base, but we need to grow it and the easiest way to attract new supporters is to be successful. Our club still has to do the legwork but it is an easier sell if you have a successful club. You will get better FTA access. You will play the other good clubs more often leading to more highly anticipated games. Regardless of supporter base, just being on FTA more regularly and having a greater access to that advertising market will allow us to attract more lucrative sponsorship and advertising contracts. Emirates aren't paying Collingwood a fortune because they think Collingwood supporters will fly Emirates, it is to get access to that lucrative advertising market on FTA.
 

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