Strategy North to contend by 2020 - Articles & Discussion

[DunderHead]

Top 4 player in a Super Draft, TT and I reckon Bailey Scott is ours too.

Walsh, TT and Bailey Scott - great injection of young talent into the midfield.

Throw cash at Gaff/Dalhause and Kelly next year.

Ahern will have had two seasons to gain fitness. LDU and Simpkin two more full preseasons.

Thats a significant overhaul of the midfield group.

 

[year of the roo]

Like I said, anyone bar LDU and Simpkin.

Yeah let's trade Brown. For a 1 in 30 shot of finding a key forward half as good.

 

[Gasometer]

Yeah let's trade Brown. For a 1 in 30 shot of finding a key forward half as good.

Wat was he ...44 or something...even Albert Hird was high up.

 

[Billy Not Really]

You seem tightly wound.

I suggest you have a crank.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

There's that BF charm I was expecting, happened sooner than later.

 

[ferball]

I'd consider trading anyone from our list if the price is right.

Bar LDU and Simpkin.

And Brown... we'd need to finish last though.

2nd rounder + Tarrant to Collingwood for pick ~5 & 2019 1st rounder (we pay salary)
Goldstein & Hrovat to Geelong for pick ~13 & 31 (we pay Goldy's salary)
Turner to GWS (2019 2nd + 3rd rounder)
Cunnington to Essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st Round
Atley free agency compo (pick 20)
3rd rounder + MacMillan to St.Kilda for pick 24
Mountford to West Coast for 2019 (2nd or 3rd Round)


Now that would be an aggressive reset.

Vaccines for Futilicus Supercoachititus available if you ask the right people.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Next year will be very exciting imo would expect th below

B: Marley Tarrant Durdin
HB: Clarke Daw EVW
C: McDonald Davies-Uniacke Hartung
HF: Garner Wood Simpkin
F: Turner Brown Ziebell
R: Preuss Higgins Cunners
I: Zurhaar Ahern our 2019 1st rounder and TT

Would expect a free agent like Dahlhaus also on top of that

Depth Mountford, Macmillan, Atley (if he doesn't go through free agency) Hayden, Williams, Anderson, McKay, Hibberd, Walker, Hrovat, Larkey and Murphy

I rate Daw and is why I'm happy the match committee are giving him games now, he will be a key next year to play all over and help Preuss in the ruck giving us flexibility

 

[King Corey]

Best case scenarios-

2nd rounder + Tarrant to Collingwood : we improve draft pick position up to 10 spots

Goldstein & Hrovat to Geelong for pick ~13 & 31 (we pay Goldy's salary): late 2nd round pick and they'd say "no thanks" to Hrovat

Turner to GWS (2019 2nd + 3rd rounder) : I love Kayne but **** me. Yeh GWS really need small forward talent eh?

Cunnington to Essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st Round : Would only occur if Dodoro announced he was joining North Melbourne the next day

Atley free agency compo (pick 20) : almost plausible though we'd screw us Wells vs Vickery style

3rd rounder + MacMillan to St.Kilda for pick 24 : Sure why not. Maybe we can throw in Tom Jeffries and get their 1st rounder instead

Mountford to West Coast for 2019 (2nd or 3rd Round) : If he came home with a wet sail and eagles finished in the top 9 almost plausible

 

[CrazyQ]

Vaccines for Futilicus Supercoachititus available if you ask the right people.

I'm on other s**t.

 

[Enable]

Best case scenarios-

2nd rounder + Tarrant to Collingwood : we improve draft pick position up to 10 spots

Goldstein & Hrovat to Geelong for pick ~13 & 31 (we pay Goldy's salary): late 2nd round pick and they'd say "no thanks" to Hrovat

Turner to GWS (2019 2nd + 3rd rounder) : I love Kayne but **** me. Yeh GWS really need small forward talent eh?

Cunnington to Essendon for pick 8 and 2019 1st Round : Would only occur if Dodoro announced he was joining North Melbourne the next day

Atley free agency compo (pick 20) : almost plausible though we'd screw us Wells vs Vickery style

3rd rounder + MacMillan to St.Kilda for pick 24 : Sure why not. Maybe we can throw in Tom Jeffries and get their 1st rounder instead

Mountford to West Coast for 2019 (2nd or 3rd Round) : If he came home with a wet sail and eagles finished in the top 9 almost plausible

Reckon you're underselling how much each club needs the proposed trade. Yes it might be ambitious from our end, but what I was illustrating is if these deals were offered, I'd be shocked if we turned any of them down, with only the Cunnington trade providing any real heartburn, not for the return, but for the Essendon factor.

The beauty of pick 5, in addition to having pick 1 for finishing last is you can guarantee 2 of Walsh, Rankine, Kingx2 and Lukosius. There are no guarantees in any of this shintemaster as you aptly pointed out, but there is no guarantee that by doing nothing (like we always have) and waiting for all our good players to effectively become worthless at the trade table (like we always have), that we won't be in the wilderness for another 10 years anyway. It's been 19 as it is, seriously what's another 10?

I can see reasons for going down either road, but for some to suggest it's a St.Kilda or Melbourne 'rebuild' I feel is disingenuous. The Saints traded pick 5 for Carlisle. We are trading out our players for picks. Carlton let go of their forward line through free agency, then absurdly picked up Daisy resulting in no compensation. Hardly the same 'method' by any metric.

What Melbourne, Carlton, St.Kilda didn't have, that we do, is ready made replacements - not to mention, we've already Brown, Simpkin, LDU, Preuss, McDonald, Ziebell, Garner, Ahern and Wood to build around.

If the moons aligned and we were able to attain Lukosius @ 1, Walsh @ 5 and Rankine/Hill @ 8, Thomas as ~13, Bailey Scott @ ~20 and Joel Crocker @ ~30, i could sleep pretty well knowing that the club was on the right track and by 2021, we'd be pushing top 4 again with a bit of luck. That requires Kelly to sign a 1 year extension and come to us at the end of 2020 as a free agent (surely that is preferable then paying 2 1st rounders next year). Once again, not out of the realms.

So anyway, after all that heartache, Round 1 2019 team consisting of the following would be kinda fun to watch.

B: Nielson -- McKay -- Vickers-Willis
HB: Williams -- Daw -- Jacobs
C: McDonald -- LDU -- Wood
HF: Garner -- Lukosius -- Zurhaar
F: Ziebell -- Brown -- Walker
R: Preuss -- Walsh -- Rankine
I/C: Ahern -- Higgins -- Thomas -- Hartung

Em: Xerri -- Larkey -- Durdin
Clarke -- Scott -- Crocker
Anderson - Hayden -- Narrier
Thompson -- Waite -- J.Williams

 

[ferball]

I'm on other s**t.

It'd have to be pretty good if you think trading BBB is a good idea.

 

[ferball]

Reckon you're underselling how much each club needs the proposed trade. Yes it might be ambitious from our end, but what I was illustrating is if these deals were offered, I'd be shocked if we turned any of them down, with only the Cunnington trade providing any real heartburn, not for the return, but for the Essendon factor.

The beauty of pick 5, in addition to having pick 1 for finishing last is you can guarantee 2 of Walsh, Rankine, Kingx2 and Lukosius. There are no guarantees in any of this shintemaster as you aptly pointed out, but there is no guarantee that by doing nothing (like we always have) and waiting for all our good players to effectively become worthless at the trade table (like we always have), that we won't be in the wilderness for another 10 years anyway. It's been 19 as it is, seriously what's another 10?

I can see reasons for going down either road, but for some to suggest it's a St.Kilda or Melbourne 'rebuild' I feel is disingenuous. The Saints traded pick 5 for Carlisle. We are trading out our players for picks. Carlton let go of their forward line through free agency, then absurdly picked up Daisy resulting in no compensation. Hardly the same 'method' by any metric.

What Melbourne, Carlton, St.Kilda didn't have, that we do, is ready made replacements - not to mention, we've already Brown, Simpkin, LDU, Preuss, McDonald, Ziebell, Garner, Ahern and Wood to build around.

If the moons aligned and we were able to attain Lukosius @ 1, Walsh @ 5 and Rankine/Hill @ 8, Thomas as ~13, Bailey Scott @ ~20 and Joel Crocker @ ~30, i could sleep pretty well knowing that the club was on the right track and by 2021, we'd be pushing top 4 again with a bit of luck. That requires Kelly to sign a 1 year extension and come to us at the end of 2020 as a free agent (surely that is preferable then paying 2 1st rounders next year). Once again, not out of the realms.

So anyway, after all that heartache, Round 1 2019 team consisting of the following would be kinda fun to watch.

B: Nielson -- McKay -- Vickers-Willis
HB: Williams -- Daw -- Jacobs
C: McDonald -- LDU -- Wood
HF: Garner -- Lukosius -- Zurhaar
F: Ziebell -- Brown -- Walker
R: Preuss -- Walsh -- Rankine
I/C: Ahern -- Higgins -- Thomas -- Hartung

Em: Xerri -- Larkey -- Durdin
Clarke -- Scott -- Crocker
Anderson - Hayden -- Narrier
Thompson -- Waite -- J.Williams

4 first year players in one side? They'd get smashed.

We aren't that far off.

Everyone writes Turner off despite his start to last year and the fact that he's born to play finals. Tarrant, Cunnington for sure and probably Atley, MacMillan and Mountford will all be part of a squad that makes finals and plays deep into them. You need players like that in your top 30 imo.

Also Taz, Cunners, Turner, Ats, Goldstein (if he ever gets form bac) and JMac have all played finals all the way to prelims and have played in winning finals, most on that famous occasion they came back by 5 goals in the second half. You don't get that sort of experience any other way. Do we really want to dump that? Look at what losing experience and talent has done to our side so far.

 

[rippersnipper]

Go full philly 76ers. Trade anyone but the captain, preuss, taz, brown and cunners (also keep the kids from the last few drafts). Wood, goldy, maj, jmac, etc. are all tradeable. Stock up draft picks and just hit the draft repeatedly knowing that not all of our picks will make it. Play the kids (over anyone who just won't be good enough) for experience in the mean time. Walker? Williams? Larkey? Play them. Nielson and McKay as well. It'll be tough to watch but it's the best way. Hawthorn's success was built on draft picks and then only after they were good, free agency/trades. It works. Think brisbane will be up there in a couple of years too

 

[Snake_Baker]

4 first year players in one side? They'd get smashed.

We aren't that far off.

Everyone writes Turner off despite his start to last year and the fact that he's born to play finals. Tarrant, Cunnington for sure and probably Atley, MacMillan and Mountford will all be part of a squad that makes finals and plays deep into them. You need players like that in your top 30 imo.

Also Taz, Cunners, Turner, Ats, Goldstein (if he ever gets form bac) and JMac have all played finals all the way to prelims and have played in winning finals, most on that famous occasion they came back by 5 goals in the second half. You don't get that sort of experience any other way. Do we really want to dump that? Look at what losing experience and talent has done to our side so far.

Just keep bringing up Carlton and Melbourne when people keep running out the overtly youthcentric arguments.

It seems as though they have completely forgotten about the frightful hidings we endured in 2010-2012, when we went too young in the midfield.

 

[bendad]

4 first year players in one side? They'd get smashed.

We aren't that far off.

Everyone writes Turner off despite his start to last year and the fact that he's born to play finals. Tarrant, Cunnington for sure and probably Atley, MacMillan and Mountford will all be part of a squad that makes finals and plays deep into them. You need players like that in your top 30 imo.

Also Taz, Cunners, Turner, Ats, Goldstein (if he ever gets form bac) and JMac have all played finals all the way to prelims and have played in winning finals, most on that famous occasion they came back by 5 goals in the second half. You don't get that sort of experience any other way. Do we really want to dump that? Look at what losing experience and talent has done to our side so far.

Really good point about the squad players. Not everyone is going to be an A-grader - we just invest hope that they are when they get drafted. For someone like Atley, being a solid citizen can be disappointing when we hoped he was Judd the second. But he is a decent player god dammit! We need a whole bunch of contributors, which I think we have. Need some top liners to go the next step.

Going the draft, we are most likely to get a mix of contributors and duds, MAYBE with a top liner in there. Not much luck on that front for the last decade! Ok, we haven't had top 5 picks. But we did just delist former pick 3 Lachie Hansen, who was a contributor. Carlton drafted 3 pick 1s in a row, which one would get us a cup? None. You can almost guarantee a couple of Lukosius, Kings, Walsh, Rankine, yes Thomas etc will be massive disappointments. So don't sell the farm for them! We'll get one of these players, we'll almost certainly be finishing low without being a terrible side. It is a super even year.

I like that we are using free agency, the draft, recycling players, mature age players, special rookies everything to try and unearth talent. That's what a team has to do in this era. If you bolted on a superstar to our 2014-16 we might have won a cup. Sooner or later, we WILL get a star through one of the pathways. Hopefully we will have a decent team around them at the time to capitalise.

 

[Enable]

4 first year players in one side? They'd get smashed.

We aren't that far off.

Everyone writes Turner off despite his start to last year and the fact that he's born to play finals. Tarrant, Cunnington for sure and probably Atley, MacMillan and Mountford will all be part of a squad that makes finals and plays deep into them. You need players like that in your top 30 imo.

Also Taz, Cunners, Turner, Ats, Goldstein (if he ever gets form bac) and JMac have all played finals all the way to prelims and have played in winning finals, most on that famous occasion they came back by 5 goals in the second half. You don't get that sort of experience any other way. Do we really want to dump that? Look at what losing experience and talent has done to our side so far.

We don't need players like Jmac. Other than that game against GWS a few years ago where he had an out of body experience, horrible defender bordering on clueless, soft both physically and mentally.
Turner is done - his best was ordinary to below average, never enough tricks in his bag to be a decent AFL small forward, certainly can't run through the midfield.
Would love to see Mountford be part of it, think he is a good young player, by why would he stay with us when his development has been so poorly managed?
Atley plays every game as if it's his first, seriously has not improved since year 1.
Goldstein is cooked to the point that every soft effort is magnified, sets a poor example. He is a basketball centre playing ruck. Having a ruckman like Goldy, who is on $900k is a horrible example for the young boys coming through the club. He is the antithesis of everything this club represents.

Using the Harry the Hatchett method, we'd have at least 30 players that might be of AFL standard and a shitload of cash to go after free agents to fill in the gaps ala Hawthorn '11-'15. Not to mention upwards of 12-15 1s round draft picks meaning we can actually compete on talent, something we've sadly been unable to do since 1999.

 

[King Corey]

Free agency poaching is definitely the road to milk and honey.

Us and saints have both shown the incredible results of having buckets of cap space and an aggressive mindset.

 

[Ischenko]

We don't need players like Jmac. Other than that game against GWS a few years ago where he had an out of body experience, horrible defender bordering on clueless, soft both physically and mentally.
Turner is done - his best was ordinary to below average, never enough tricks in his bag to be a decent AFL small forward, certainly can't run through the midfield.
Would love to see Mountford be part of it, think he is a good young player, by why would he stay with us when his development has been so poorly managed?
Atley plays every game as if it's his first, seriously has not improved since year 1.
Goldstein is cooked to the point that every soft effort is magnified, sets a poor example. He is a basketball centre playing ruck. Having a ruckman like Goldy, who is on $900k is a horrible example for the young boys coming through the club. He is the antithesis of everything this club represents.

Using the Harry the Hatchett method, we'd have at least 30 players that might be of AFL standard and a shitload of cash to go after free agents to fill in the gaps ala Hawthorn '11-'15. Not to mention upwards of 12-15 1s round draft picks meaning we can actually compete on talent, something we've sadly been unable to do since 1999.

Wow. I bet you are good at Supercoach, but this is wrong. You can use the English language ok and seem to have a functioning brain, so I wonder where this bullshit comes from? You claimed that Carlton were "eons" ahead of us a few weeks ago...Your posting indicates that you value youth and the unknowns of the future over the here and now. But footy is about winning. As the zen proverb goes: "when walking, walk. When eating, eat." For our purposes, this can be adapted: "when footballing, football." Play to win. Pick players that will help you win. This always includes a mix of younger, middle-aged and older players. Young players will and are getting their chances. And you develop young players best by teaching them what it takes to win.

Look at Hawthorn. Look at Sydney. No extended rebuilds, no games gifted to kids. Look at Carlton. Quite the opposite. And eons ahead of us, according to you. Eons. Because they might be good in five years? I've heard that about them before. Mate they don't know how to win games of football.

We need a couple more class mids (we may already have them on the list), our 2nd tier spine to keep developing and maybe another pressure forward and a classy half back. These may also already be on the list. We have a good team culture (again contrary to what you have claimed on here) and are not far at all from being back in contention.

The encouraging thing this year is that our second tier of players are stepping up - Anderson, Dumont, Vickers-Willis, Williams, Clarke and Hartung are all young and are all improving. Atley is playing as well as he ever has. Jacobs has picked up where he left off.
We have LDU, Simpkin, Preuss, Garner, Brown, Cunnington and who knows who else (Ahern/Mountford/Walker even Wood if he pulls the finger out) as genuine class who will be with us for many years yet. Thomas next year. Probably Kelly. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Enjoy the ride.

 

[GreatBradScott]

This timeline is not as insane as I thought it was a month ago.

 

[the big lebowski]

Look at Hawthorn. Look at Sydney. No extended rebuilds, no games gifted to kids. Look at Carlton. Quite the opposite. And eons ahead of us, according to you. Eons. Because they might be good in five years? I've heard that about them before. Mate they don't know how to win games of football.

To be fair hawthorn traded out Trent croad for pick 1 that got them hodge. Traded Nathan Thompson for a first round pick and Jonathan hay for 2. They maximised their time near the bottom under Clarkson and got franklin and Roughead as a result. These 3 players allowed them an extended run at the top.

Sydney managed to get buddy for free, and have used (along with some very good recruiting) the bullshit academy to get guns like heeney and to a lesser degree mills for much less than they are worth.

Collingwood won a flag from one down year when they got pendles and Thomas.

Surely there is a balance to bringing as many elite junior kids into your program as possible whilst simultaneously staying as competitive as possible?

 

[Billy Not Really]

This timeline is not as insane as I thought it was a month ago.

Maybe Josh Elliott is onto something here.