Norths list strategy. Genius or disaster?

Genius or Disaster?

  • Smart list management

    Votes: 72 44.7%
  • Terrible idea

    Votes: 89 55.3%

  • Total voters
    161

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eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
9,937
8,754
pakenham
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Fremantle
By Shaw going on the "rebuild" path after falling flat on his face this season, it buys him three more years.
It shouldn’t.

The guy can’t coach.

His game style is the same as Mick Malthouse. It’s outdated.

Roos would be served to keep him for one more year as paying out two years would kill the Football spend cap.
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
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Brown was told to find a new home because his contract expectation was far to high...and i doubt any other clubs are going to pay that either. If that occurs he'll stay at north for the contract they offered or lower.

Higgins being told he isn't being offered a contract beyond next year isn't 'shopping him around'. if anything it's quite smart as other teams will have to trade this year in order to obtain his services, otherwise they have to wait another year. Geelong don't have to part with a first rounder, if that's the case though they'll also will have to then wait another year more to try and get their dangerflag with higgins, North isn't selling low either way and hold the power.
Why would Geelong offer a first rounder for a 32 year old Higgins? The best player the game has ever seen didn't even command that deal at a similar age. You'll be lucky if you get Pick 34 - and that's if you pay some of his salary
 

B4Bear

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 6, 2011
5,892
10,621
Melbourne
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North Melbourne
I am curious on Norths ideas of using those 2 1st rounders. Pick 2 and 11 will be handy for north. Can easily get a KPF and decent mid with those 2 picks. Saying that, I'm curious if anyone is crazy to pay a fair bit for pick 2.

Would you trade pick 11 for a 2021 1st rounder and hope that side finishes bottom 6?
I wouldn't do that trade. There will be some good value around 11. With not a lot of exposed recent form players will slip; recruiters just need to know what they are doing.
 

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Saint

Club Legend
Feb 1, 2006
2,196
1,364
Victoria
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Essendon
Brown was told to find a new home because his contract expectation was far to high...and i doubt any other clubs are going to pay that either. If that occurs he'll stay at north for the contract they offered or lower.

Higgins being told he isn't being offered a contract beyond next year isn't 'shopping him around'. if anything it's quite smart as other teams will have to trade this year in order to obtain his services, otherwise they have to wait another year. Geelong don't have to part with a first rounder, if that's the case though they'll also will have to then wait another year more to try and get their dangerflag with higgins, North isn't selling low either way and hold the power.
Shaw/Roos clarified and said Brown didn't fit their forward structure. They hold no power at all. He's out of contract and the club has said -explicitly - they don't want him in the team. He can walk anywhere he wants, basically and the Roos have said as much.

As for Higgins, it's the roos trying not to pay his full contract because what's the point when they plan on finishing bottom 4 and will be playing young kids. a 32 yo with a high contract price doesn't hold a lot of currency at the trade table. Be lucky to get a 2nd round pick, most likely a third. Or they keep him on a big salary for no matches or value at all.
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Why would Geelong offer a first rounder for a 32 year old Higgins? The best player the game has ever seen didn't even command that deal at a similar age. You'll be lucky if you get Pick 34 - and that's if you pay some of his salary
North holds all the power in the deal this year, geelong can have him for free....in 2022, when the dangerflag window is closed.
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
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North Melbourne
Shaw/Roos clarified and said Brown didn't fit their forward structure. They hold no power at all. He's out of contract and the club has said -explicitly - they don't want him in the team. He can walk anywhere he wants, basically and the Roos have said as much.

As for Higgins, it's the roos trying not to pay his full contract because what's the point when they plan on finishing bottom 4 and will be playing young kids. a 32 yo with a high contract price doesn't hold a lot of currency at the trade table. Be lucky to get a 2nd round pick, most likely a third. Or they keep him on a big salary for no matches or value at all.
share the quote where shaw said this re; brown and the future structure. until you explicitly state this quote the rest of what you said is hearsay media hyperbole. unless another teams offers brown a better contract north hold all the power.

re; higgins - north have plenty left in their TPP, the contract price is meaningless, especially when it ends next year. you're right, north would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him BUT he's contracted and if Geelong don't cough something good up there is no point losing him. there is plenty of value in having very professional older players around a developing team, you don't know what you're talking about.
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
5,731
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North holds all the power in the deal this year, geelong can have him for free....in 2022, when the dangerflag window is closed.
Then keep him? You act like we care, but I guarantee Higgins is very far down the list of priorities that Geelong has.
 

btdg

Premiership Player
Oct 7, 2005
4,147
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Melbourne
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I wouldn't do that trade. There will be some good value around 11. With not a lot of exposed recent form players will slip; recruiters just need to know what they are doing.
The problem this year is recruiters might 'know what they are doing' but they simply don't have the info. They don't have the exposed form and performances, likely won't have the same access to interviews, won't have the combines, etc.

It's going to be a complete crapfest, even including the top 10, unfortunately - this is bad for teams like North who need the talent injection, and great for teams at the top who are going to get better than normal access to top-shelf talent (purely on luck).

If I was North - I fell like you already have a good crop of U23s. I'd be looking to lock in some 'sure things' who are either 24 or 19 (ie; a bit above/below the other young guys you already have), which means trading. Something like the pick 2 for Weller trade that GC made would be perfect. Not totally sure who that would be though - maybe Caldwell from GWS? They have a history of packaging to move up in the draft as well, so you might get say pick 10 and Caldwell for pick 2. Then can move 10 and 11 on for similar calibre guys and avoid the draft craziness?
 

Shadow89

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
5,731
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This is bordering on trolling behaviour right now, lol. We've been reported as being after about 15 different players, with only two of them being substantiated. Why would Higgins be our first priority?

Bizarre how you guys seem to think that you'll get some 'epic deal' for a 32 year old - Higgins -, a 34 year old - Goldstein -, and a player like Brown who you've publicly told 'look elsewhere.'

No-one is clamouring to get to North, or to get players from North. There is no circumstance where you should have any reason to act cocky
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
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It shouldn’t.

The guy can’t coach.

His game style is the same as Mick Malthouse. It’s outdated.

Roos would be served to keep him for one more year as paying out two years would kill the Football spend cap.
Is he trying to fit his squad to his game plan? Not tailoring his game plan to the strengths of the squad?

I remember Simmo's early days with the Eagles with Hurn chipping the ball, makes sense though.
 

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Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
AFL Club
North Melbourne
This is bordering on trolling behaviour right now, lol. We've been reported as being after about 15 different players, with only two of them being substantiated. Why would Higgins be our first priority?

Bizarre how you guys seem to think that you'll get some 'epic deal' for a 32 year old - Higgins -, a 34 year old - Goldstein -, and a player like Brown who you've publicly told 'look elsewhere.'

No-one is clamouring to get to North, or to get players from North. There is no circumstance where you should have any reason to act cocky
mate, i couldn't give a rats about geelong's priorities, it has no bearing on this discussion and higgin's worth.

a late first rounder (early second by the time compensation and NGA picks are done) isn't some 'epic deal'. he's contracted and north have more than enough cash to fund his contract. geelong are the ones who have to cough up, they hold no power. simple.

no one clamouring to get to north is another irrelevant point, just like your first "priorities" argument. i'm not acting cocky, these are the simple facts.
 

Ice-Wolf

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 19, 2007
14,248
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Mornington Peninsula
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Bizarre how you guys seem to think that you'll get some 'epic deal' for a 32 year old - Higgins -, a 34 year old - Goldstein -, and a player like Brown who you've publicly told 'look elsewhere.'
Honestly those 3 sound like a nice ready made package for a club that needs just a little extra, but it's not a package anyone is going to pay much for.
 

Saint

Club Legend
Feb 1, 2006
2,196
1,364
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
share the quote where shaw said this re; brown and the future structure. until you explicitly state this quote the rest of what you said is hearsay media hyperbole. unless another teams offers brown a better contract north hold all the power.

re; higgins - north have plenty left in their TPP, the contract price is meaningless, especially when it ends next year. you're right, north would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him BUT he's contracted and if Geelong don't cough something good up there is no point losing him. there is plenty of value in having very professional older players around a developing team, you don't know what you're talking about.
Here's Brown's manager saying it, outlining the contract for Brown was off the table a long time ago.


Why are north fans pretending the club isn't saying what they're saying?

Here's the click-baiters over at the ABC quoting Kangaroos people.


Do even North fans pay so little attention to their team that they don't know the club has booted their best forward of the past 10 years?
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Here's Brown's manager saying it, outlining the contract for Brown was off the table a long time ago.

and i asked where is the quote of north/shaw saying it....

Why are north fans pretending the club isn't saying what they're saying?
because they never said it, and you still haven't provided a simple quote. you talk about it so freely as if it's fact, yet you can't provide a simple piece of evidence.

Here's the click-baiters over at the ABC quoting Kangaroos people.


Do even North fans pay so little attention to their team that they don't know the club has booted their best forward of the past 10 years?
no quote in that one either.

we play plenty of attention, more attention than you and your evidence.
 

Saint

Club Legend
Feb 1, 2006
2,196
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Victoria
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Essendon
and i asked where is the quote of north/shaw saying it....



because they never said it, and you still haven't provided a simple quote. you talk about it so freely as if it's fact, yet you can't provide a simple piece of evidence.



no quote in that one either.

we play plenty of attention, more attention than you and your evidence.
So when a player's manager says this:
“North Melbourne are moving in a different direction with the way they want to play and they don’t see Ben as a part of that, which I find staggering considering how good of a player he has been for North Melbourne. "

You think it's a misinterpretation by the player's manager? Pretty sure the roos would clear that up if that were the case.

Does Rhyce Shaw need to call you personally and Ben Brown confirm it before you believe a club's press release:


This statement from your football club on your football club's website is basically the article which you said there's no quote and therefore no evidence. I don't know what more the club can do to convince fans like yourself that they don't want Ben Brown. They've certainly made it clear to Brown and his manager.

How much attention are you paying?
 

Neale4brownlow

Club Legend
May 20, 2017
2,245
3,177
AFL Club
West Coast
Honestly those 3 sound like a nice ready made package for a club that needs just a little extra, but it's not a package anyone is going to pay much for.
Agree, plus you may only get 1 preseason and 1 year out of them to try pinch a flag. Cats are probably in the right space to attempt it. But in doing so they might look like North's list in 2-3years.

Probably all 3 are worth varying degrees or 2nd rounders (Higgins early, Brown middle, Goldy late). North aren't going to do anything with them now so they may as well take the picks and go all-in on the list rebuild.

I think it could turn out to be a smart play. There's no other club going all-in on a rebuild at the moment during these times. All this talk of compromised drafts has clubs actually trading down the order.

Add to that salary cap reductions putting pressure on the top end of the league to keep their up and coming stars.

North need to just clean the ranks and go hard at any promising young or fringe player (weller style) who might want to join them on decent coin. Then top up the list at the draft for the next 2 years.

Next year is probably going to feel like another nothing year heavily compromised from covid restrictions so its a good year by North to throw away for the greater good.
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
AFL Club
North Melbourne
So when a player's manager says this:
“North Melbourne are moving in a different direction with the way they want to play and they don’t see Ben as a part of that, which I find staggering considering how good of a player he has been for North Melbourne. "

You think it's a misinterpretation by the player's manager? Pretty sure the roos would clear that up if that were the case.

Does Rhyce Shaw need to call you personally and Ben Brown confirm it before you believe a club's press release:


This statement from your football club on your football club's website is basically the article which you said there's no quote and therefore no evidence. I don't know what more the club can do to convince fans like yourself that they don't want Ben Brown. They've certainly made it clear to Brown and his manager.

How much attention are you paying?
more attention than you, who is obviously incapable of critical analysis.

his manager made a massive f-up, so he's going to say anything to get himself out of the sh*t in the public eye.

again, you didn't provide a quote. stop trolling me and leave.
 

MrWoollie

Team Captain
Jul 28, 2008
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more attention than you, who is obviously incapable of critical analysis.

his manager made a massive f-up, so he's going to say anything to get himself out of the sh*t in the public eye.

again, you didn't provide a quote. stop trolling me and leave.
As an independent here, I'm curious as to what you believe is happening/has happened.

Are you arguing that the manager made some sort of mistake and is trying to get himself out of it by claiming that the club wants Brown traded? Which isn't true?

Are you saying the club doesn't want him gone? It's all a lie by the manager?

All the articles in the media (The Age and other papers, The Roar and other online media, Fox, Ch7 and other television and so on) are all just lazy reporting repeating the managers made up story?

Sure, I admit I am about as far from being an insider here as is possible, but I'm finding it a little unbelievable that Ben Brown isn't being shopped around.
 

Mcarcherey

Club Legend
Oct 10, 2014
1,642
1,817
AFL Club
North Melbourne
As an independent here, I'm curious as to what you believe is happening/has happened.

Are you arguing that the manager made some sort of mistake and is trying to get himself out of it by claiming that the club wants Brown traded? Which isn't true?

Are you saying the club doesn't want him gone? It's all a lie by the manager?

All the articles in the media (The Age and other papers, The Roar and other online media, Fox, Ch7 and other television and so on) are all just lazy reporting repeating the managers made up story?

Sure, I admit I am about as far from being an insider here as is possible, but I'm finding it a little unbelievable that Ben Brown isn't being shopped around.
yes the manager made a significant mistake. he knocked back a deal that brown won't get elsewhere.

am i wrong in assuming those media outlets are lazy? sorry, last time i checked the vast majority of their articles are filled hyperbole opinions from has-beens or rumours from "sources" trying to be sold as fact - in reality, more often than not, they're wrong.
 

The chorus

All Australian
Jun 15, 2012
665
1,749
AFL Club
North Melbourne
As an independent here, I'm curious as to what you believe is happening/has happened.

Are you arguing that the manager made some sort of mistake and is trying to get himself out of it by claiming that the club wants Brown traded? Which isn't true?

Are you saying the club doesn't want him gone? It's all a lie by the manager?

All the articles in the media (The Age and other papers, The Roar and other online media, Fox, Ch7 and other television and so on) are all just lazy reporting repeating the managers made up story?

Sure, I admit I am about as far from being an insider here as is possible, but I'm finding it a little unbelievable that Ben Brown isn't being shopped around.
I think you can save your energy- somebody who is backing Trump's gaslighting about hydroxycholoquine on the NM home page is not going to listen to reason or logic
 

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