News & Events Norway Attacks

[Super Hans]

Lulz @ people wanting to ban cod because he played it.

 

[cats81]

IRA? Abortion centre killings etc... sadly devout christians are not isolated from attacks like this at all. Also see Islam - the minority Islamists fundies kill a fair bit, and Islam is all about peace and love as well.

I learnt a long time ago to not blame the whole religion for the actions of a few nutters.

Plus, his political beliefs were the motivation for the attacks, and the attacks had both a political target and objective (just like with the Islamic militants), as opposed to a religious one.

If anything, his religious convictions (or more approriately his own twisted personal interpretation of his religion) was just fuel to the fire.

Cold, sick and evil mofo.

As an Agnostic personaly, I hope he is right about his religious beleifs. Might be in for a rude shock upon his death.

Hell is too good a place for him.

The IRA are devout Christians? You sir just showed your complete ignorance in one of your typically arrogant postings, well played

 

[Malifice]

The IRA are devout Christians? You sir just showed your complete ignorance in one of your typically arrogant postings, well played

Predominately Catholic in fact.

This comes as a shock to you?

 

[thecatattack]

Lulz @ people wanting to ban cod because he played it.

Didn't he say that he got the idea from a scene in it where you kill randoms in an airport?

 

[cats81]

Predominately Catholic in fact.

This comes as a shock to you?

You think because the majority of IRA members (some IRA members have had protestant backgrounds) are from a catholic background that makes them 'devout christians'? Most IRA members over the past 20 years would not even attend church and infact many Irish republicans hold the catholic church and religion as a whole in disdain. The IRAs campaign of violence had nothing to do with a religious adgenda, they were/are a left wing nationalist organisation.

 

[Malifice]

You think because the majority of IRA members (some IRA members have had protestant backgrounds) are from a catholic background that makes them 'devout christians'? Most IRA members over the past 20 years would not even attend church and infact many Irish republicans hold the catholic church and religion as a whole in disdain. The IRAs campaign of violence had nothing to do with a religious adgenda, they were/are a left wing nationalist organisation.

If you are attepting to suggest there was not a religious element to the Troubles you need your head read. For examaple the Sutton index of deaths records that, of the 394 Republican dead from the recent troubles, 366 were Catholic, 3 were Protestant and 25 were 'not from Northern Ireland' (Mostly from the Republic of Ireland and probably mostly Catholic)

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_I.R.A_protestant_or_Catholic#ixzz1TDGXQp00
​

In August 1969, a confrontation between nationalists and police in Derry following an Apprentice Boys of Derry march led to the Battle of the Bogside – three days of heavy fighting between rioters throwing stones and petrol bombs and police who saturated the area with CS gas. Fighting spread beyond Derry over the following days. Burning, damage or intimidation by loyalists forced 1,505 Catholics from their homes in Belfast in the Northern Ireland riots of August 1969, with over 200 Catholic homes being destroyed or requiring major repairs.[6] The Irish Republican Army (IRA) had been poorly armed and unable to adequately defend the Catholic community, which had been considered its traditional rôle since the 1920s.[28]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

The desire was (is) for a politically (and for many operatives - religiously) unified Ireland. Lines were in many cases drawn around Catholic/ Protestant (CofE) as much as any desire for an independent Ireland, and removal of British troops from the North.

Not much different from say, Al Quedas stated goals.

 

[cats81]

The attacks where not on the 'catholic' communities in Northern Ireland but on 'nationalist' areas whose residents happened to be for the most part catholic... catholic areas in Belfast such as the Malone Road were never attacked in 69 because they were not overtly nationalist. There were catholic members of the RUC and British Army during the troubles as well as you showed protestant members of the IRA. It was a political conflict not a religious one.

You lose all credibility by stated that their goals were not dis-similar to al-qaeda ....they should in no way be compared.

The Provisional IRAs goal was for a 32 county united Irish Republic, they also espoused socialist ideals from the 1960s onwards...a fairly simple nationalist agenda.

Al-Qaeda want a global jihad against all non-sunni muslims and the setting up of a worldwide caliphate.

How the **** are these similar goals

 

[cats81]

I'm completely, totally and 100% against the 'ban violent video games' movement, but I know the scene you're talking about and it is by far the most ****ed up thing I've ever seen on a video game.

The mission is 'No Russian' from Call of Duty Modern Warefare 2.....agreed is a ****ed up mission but is just the same thing you would see in dozens of movies made in the past based on real or possible events. Not like this guy wouldnt have found some other inspiration.

 

[grizzlym]

Ever read that book called 'On Killing' by Lt Col. Grossman? It's essentially a psychology book which examines the effect of killing and how the army basically discovered following WW2 that they had to train people to get over natural aversion of killing. The book was nominated for a Pulitzer, off memory, and is compelling reading.

Anyway, I do have a point, and it is this: I'm against censorship of games, indeed of most things, but Grossman makes the point quite strongly that the technique the army used, and still use, is to desensitize the soldier to the act of killing. To make killing part of a series of actions they automatically do without thinking. Video games like this one arguably, in part, do much the same thing. It's a sort of conditioning, I guess.

Anyway, it's a fascinating book and, in that light, I can see why this Norwegian mad man, viewed it as 'good training'. Not because it was a realistic sim but because it made doing the abhorrent act of mass killing somehow everyday and automatic.

 

[Malifice]

The attacks where not on the 'catholic' communities in Northern Ireland but on 'nationalist' areas whose residents happened to be for the most part catholic... catholic areas in Belfast such as the Malone Road were never attacked in 69 because they were not overtly nationalist. There were catholic members of the RUC and British Army during the troubles as well as you showed protestant members of the IRA. It was a political conflict not a religious one.

Of course it was a political conflict. They pretty much all are.

But to suggest religion was not a (massive) part is head in the sand stuff.

You lose all credibility by stated that their goals were not dis-similar to al-qaeda ....they should in no way be compared.

Here are Al Quedas goals:

The principle stated aims of al-Qaeda are:

a) to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia;
b) destroy Israel; and
c) topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East.

Bin Laden also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs.

Read more: Al-Qaeda — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/al-qaeda-terrorism.html#ixzz1TE9RLUYv

Compare with the IRA:

​

a) To drive English and English influence out of all Ireland,
b) Poltically, culturally (and debatably religiously) unify and unite Ireland, free of British rule

Establish (by force if necessary) a 32 county united Irish Republic, preferably a Socialist one.

Those goals (objectively) both sound quite similar, and more like political goals than religious goals to me.

The IRA had some legitimate claims (a free independent and unified Ireland). So do Al Queda (removal of the US, US sponsored regimes, and US influence from the ME).

Al-Qaeda want a global jihad against all non-sunni muslims and the setting up of a worldwide caliphate.

No they dont.

Im sure they would no doubt love some far fetched 'worldwide caliphate', but the principle goal of AQ is defending the ME and Muslim nations from American Imperialism, and hopefully the unifying of Muslim nations into a Caliphate in unified opposition to the West.

Remember, in Al Queda's view they are just fighting back against the agressors (the US) who have been plundering the ME's resources, bombing the shit out of the ME, destabilising the region and generally killing lots of people over there for the better part of the past 60 years.

And to be objective, they may very well have an extremely valid point.

 

[Ochre]

Didn't he say that he got the idea from a scene in it where you kill randoms in an airport?

no

I'm completely, totally and 100% against the 'ban violent video games' movement, but I know the scene you're talking about and it is by far the most ****ed up thing I've ever seen on a video game.

really? most people ive talked to didn't actually find it that bad, obviously there was the uproar but I didn't have any problems playing through it

 

[Malifice]

really? most people ive talked to didn't actually find it that bad, obviously there was the uproar but I didn't have any problems playing through it

Throwing this out there, but it was a little disturbing.

Although lets get real here, he didnt kill those kids because of a violent video game.

 

[Righteo]

Anders Behring Breivik's diary

Killer's diary details meticulous planning and favourite DVDs in the 82 days leading up to attacks. This is an edited version


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/24/anders-behring-breivik-diary

This guy is definitely not insane, very intelligent, meticulous and organized. It's ****ing scary how sometimes he appears so "Joe Average" too.

Don't like to admit it but I kinda laughed at the following..

"Thurs 30 June Day 60 This house is infested with beetles. Just now I was about to reach for a chocolate in my goodie bag and a beetle had crawled in, ffs…"

I still can't get over how ****ed this whole thing is, he doesn't even seem that much of a devout Christian either "Sat 11 June Day 41 … I prayed for the first time in a very long time today." It's honestly like nothing I've ever seen before in terms of all his working and planning being so completely available to explore and investigate.

The bitter irony in all this is that he's the exact same as the Islamic fundamentalists he so despises.

 

[cats81]

Que?

His entire reason for planning this attack is because he is anti-Islam.

He targeted the Labour Party youth camp because he believes the Labour party has let too many muslims into Norway.

From the man himself:

I was refering to the conflict in Norther Ireland not the psycho in Norway

 

[WALL-e]

Where do you draw the line with every day items contributing to insanity? do you ban shoes becuase people who use shoes daily develop the ability to chase down victims easier?

Video games to not cause insanity, they mearly act for a vessle for the insane to lay blame or to help bridge the gap between reality and their world. If it wasn't video games it would be something else.

The Maralyn Mason interview re Columbine was great viewing. Some people are just not right this guy is one of them. Shares similar qualities to another European bloke....

 

[WALL-e]

I feel dirty ......

 

[SpareTowel]

yeah, video games are the problem, not the fact the guy was insane

there are so many complex factors that cause shit like this to happen, wish people would have the balls to accept that instead of looking for simplistic answers that dont really answer anything

 

[BEEG]

yeah, video games are the problem, not the fact the guy was insane

there are so many complex factors that cause shit like this to happen, wish people would have the balls to accept that instead of looking for simplistic answers that dont really answer anything

If you read what he has written i dont think he is insane

Thats the scary part

 

[Glenno23]

The thing with the "No Russian" level from MW2 is that you don't HAVE to kill the civilians, you can walk through the entire level without firing a bullet at innocents if you want

 

[WALL-e]

If you read what he has written i dont think he is insane

Thats the scary part

You don't have to be a rambling lunatic to be insane. The insane can be extremely well read, good speakers and all believe to the upmost in what they believe. Rationality has gone.

 

[Tulip]

You don't have to be a rambling lunatic to be insane. The insane can be extremely well read, good speakers and all believe to the upmost in what they believe. Rationality has gone.

Agreed. Some of the most intelligent people in the world are insane. And reverse.

Read/Watch Hamlet (I reccomend Kenneth Branagh, not that I'm a huge Shakespeare nut) for a good starting point

 

[Tulip]

Didn't he say that he got the idea from a scene in it where you kill randoms in an airport?

That was the most disgusting bit of video game violence I've ever seen, whenever I pull out the COD disk (which is rarely) I always skip that mission.

If that influenced him, as the developers argued the game wouldn't, then they deserve everything thrown their way. They don't have blood on their hands though, it was his decision.

By the way, i've always been pro. R rated games, now I just don't know.

 

[grizzlym]

If you read what he has written i dont think he is insane

Thats the scary part

My wife was fortunate enough to be involved in some projects involving Nelson Mandela and Govan Mbeki. They spoke of the 'internal conflict' they experienced, when during Apartheid, they authorised bombings and killings. They knew that innocent people would be killed, and people who were only following orders etc, but deemed it necessary to the cause.

This guy is obviously extreme, but it does raise the question where the line is drawn with insanity and say terrorism. I don't, for example, regard Bin Ladin as insane. in fact, I reckon he was quite the opposite.

 

[Glenno23]

That was the most disgusting bit of video game violence I've ever seen, whenever I pull out the COD disk (which is rarely) I always skip that mission.

If that influenced him, as the developers argued the game wouldn't, then they deserve everything thrown their way. They don't have blood on their hands though, it was his decision.

By the way, i've always been pro. R rated games, now I just don't know.

I played that level and killed as many civilians as possible. Does that influence me to go and shoot people and blow up a building? No it doesn't, as i'm not insane already

But again, you don't have to shoot the civilians anyway. Its not forced, its an option.

 

[rossi]

Wow some people here are ridiculous.

He didn't once mention that he played that level in COD.