Norwood AFL bid.... an AFL club with its back to the wall..

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Some one mentioned there was another AFL club verging on falling over...I am sure the Norwood Football Club would be happy to discuss mergers/takeovers/amalgamations etc. It was to Fitzroys disadvantage that they didnt take up Norwoods offer in 1996. They ( Fitzroy ) would have had a traditional Football base steeped in history and glory an d an excellent membership pool, huge Adelaide support, and a great centrally located oval with all facilities and huge property assets...come on that ailing AFL club...

The reasoning here you may ask ????


Football isnt the same in Adelaide since Port left the SANFL, their traditional rival Norwood the Equal to any pre 1990 VFL club, left to squander in Australias second league...


Its hard to have passion against a manufactured Franchise like the Adelaide Crows,
when Port and Norwood have histories that go back to the late 1870's.

PA 1870

 

[Tom FC]

The question is, can Adelaide support a third football team?

The current two aren't going so well at the moment, and if the AFL wanted to expand their market, Queensland or NSW would be a much better bet.

Fitzroy would have had even more difficulty retaining their old fans if they had gone to Adelaide, of all places, and they must have been worried they were leaving one doomed club to join another.

 

[CJH]

PA1870,

Please tell us more about Norwood (if it doesn't leave too bitter a taste in your mouth!

)

How many supporters / members? Financial strength? Would they be able to compete with Southport on this score.

Tom FC,

Are you taking about Adelaide and Port Adelaide on or off the field? Either way I can think of a heap of Melbourne clubs that wish they were travelling as 'badly' as these two Adelaide clubs Healthy profits, excellent facilities, two premierships in the last 3 years...

The only point of concern in having 3 Adelaide based clubs is will this create a Melbourne like situation where you have too many clubs competing for a limited sponsorship dollar?

Don't forget that Victoria is 3 - 4 times the size of SA in terms of population.

------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[Drakey]

PA 1870

You are an idiot!

Norwood have bugger all support. Check the crowds they get in the SANFL.

I mean after all, your legion of bandwagoners don't usually show up for games so what makes you think Norwood would get more than 10,000 at a game.

As for your lack of passion when it comes to playing the pride of SA. Who cares.

1870 is an appropriate name for you. You live in the past.

If you want Norwood in so bad I suggest you amalgimate with them yourselves. Between both clubs you MIGHT just draw the sort of crowd expected in the AFL.

Then again after a couple of loses I'm sure Footy Park will be as empty as it was for most Port games last year.

 

[ptw]

CJH

you didn't ask me but for what it is worth...

(a Port supporter commenting objectively on Norwood....ouch !!!)

Norwood are based in Adelaide's eastern suburbs (affluent), wearing read and blue with the same "It's a grand old flag" as Melbourne (the same scratchy old LP from what I can recall but anyway).

From memory they have won 28 flags....were neck and neck with Port until the late 80's since then Port have won 6 (5?) and pulled away. Ask any Norwood supporter about the '84 grand final vs Port and then settle in for the night.

Historically they have had a similar following to Port, probably 30% of all SANFL supporters...not sure of members.

Good recent players from Norwood (who I can recall)...

1. Gary McIntosh - memorable punch up with Gary Ablett in State of Origin....never wanted to play AFL but could have.
2. Andrew Jarman - although they stole him from North.
3. Matthew Primus played for a year
4. The "James" boys - Brett, Roger etc
5. Michael Aish - still see him in the EJ Whitten games.
6. Tony Francis

there are probably some Norwood legends who I have left off.

They would crap on Southport. From what I can gather Southport have heaps of members but are essentially a social club not a football club.

At one stage there was a proposal for the Crows to locate to The Parade (Norwood's home ground) for training, re-creating the Port - Norwood rivalry and creating an East/West divide - the SANFL who own the crows decided it was a good idea but the Crows said no - said something about who holds the stick.

I would love to have Norwood in - just so we could flog them in the AFL as well.

ptw

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I hated 'em - pack of College ****s except for Gary MacIntosh who was every bit a thug as Dave Grainger used to be.

The Parade is a nice ground though - and the 1984 Grand Final is probably the finest moment in SANFL history - just ask anyone who knows.

Norwood in the AFL ? - nah, not in a million years mate !

 

[Roylion]

Whether Norwood can 'crap' on Southport ON the field is completely irrelevant.

Rightly or wrongly these days it's off the field that counts.

An recent article on Southport, suggested that Southport has 53,000 members and that they were hoping to double this in the next five years. Now some have queried these figures, suggesting that very cheap $5.00 memberships are the reason why they have so many members. Now this may be the case for some of the categories of members that they have, but I would be surprised if ALL these 53,000 members pay just $5.00 for membership. Southport yields far more than only $265,000 in membership fees.

Southport is the 4th largest sporting club (with pokies) of it's kind in Queensland and easily outranks the Brisbane Lions in the breadth of its social activities and revenue. The club exists solely to maintain the Southport Sharks Football Club.

The club is located in the centre of the financial and medical centre of the Gold Coast, which (along with Brisbane) is the fastest growing urban area in Australia.
Southport was described as a "$90 million juggernaut". By this I assume this means a total of accumulated assets, revenue and turnover.

They have also just completed $5 million dollars worth of renovations to the club including new football rooms, a four lane swimming pool complete with spas and sauna for the football club. They are also planning to put in a second oval as a training ground.

Southport was described as completing these renovations to position itself for possible entry into the AFL at some point in the future, preferably with a relocated AFL club from Melbourne.

If this is the case then Southport already boasts completed infrastructure and a solid financial base more advanced and secure than what some Melbourne based AFL clubs currently have and certainly more than what Norwood could provide, even with the Adelaide Oval as part of the set-up.

The South Australian Cricket Association made the original proposal to Fitzroy, with their sole motivation to maximise the use of the Adelaide Oval. The AFL, not Fitzroy, was not interested.

Even if Norwood could match Southport's resources, a third club in SA, uis very unlikely. The AFL's preferred master plan for the league, which has been publicised, is for a 16 team competition, with eight sides in Victoria, two in WA, two in SA, two in Queensland and two in NSW/ACT. Tasmania and a third side in SA will not happen.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Thanks for your informed replies guys , they make great reading!

Drakey ? what is your problem ? I put this question up for rational discussion and there is some solid argument coming through.

Facts, figures and hypothesis.. My dear languid Crows supporter, look up Band wagoner in the dictionary. the description goes something like this,

BANDWAGONER ; Commonly known as Crows supporter, derived from supporter bases of long since abandoned SANFL clubs for the bright lights, gifts and baubles ,pins,axes and blankets offered to them by the new league in town.......


The Port Adelaide Football Club had to maintain the fiercest onslaught from other SANFL clubs and Crows supporters when it relinquished its license to play in the SANFL...its supporters backed the club in its AFL venture....We didnt wholesale abandon Port when a New team was formed a "Conglomerate" that "shat" in the f ace of 120 years of traditional League football rivalry in SA.

What the Non Port people were saying ( besides what Norwood was saying) was
" We cant compete against Victorian Clubs except as a conglomerate" What Norwood and Port were saying was " Our traditional Big Clubs are as every bit as competitive as the Melbourne based clubs" at least Port has the chance to prove that, as a former SANFL club, it has all the guile, bravado, and strength , matched with Business acumen and a Tradition and History of winning Premierships and being competitive against Victorian Clubs since 1879 ( their first interstate clash against Geelong ) to Compete in the AFL.

We backed our club all the way !!!!!!!


My Dear Drakey, Port Adelaide is a single club like the traditional Victorian clubs, Essendon, Carlton, Melbourne, that draw their History from their fledgling years in the VFA in the 1800's and their joining the VFL in 1897 to their osmosis into the AFL in 1990. We played SANFL until 1995 then joined the AFL in 1997.

Ports strength and its character and its position as the only Club based team to be admitted to the VFL then AFL since 1897 is based on its History and support.


Norwood draws a similar support base, Of course the days of VFL size crowds at SANFL games are gone, but the club still has the community and business support
needed for grander plans.

Granted the AFL rationalist theory, that Adelaide cannot support another AFL club may be the underpinning of its reasons not to look at further SA proposals,
But that is no reason to be abusive.

Tell me Drakey what is your rational for your statements?

PA1870

 

[mud n blood]

I couldn't have said it better myself. That about sums up Southport and their visions as I see it, pretty well.

As for Norwood v Southport .... I'd like to see that! Don't assume that because Southport are a Qld side, that they must be shit like most leagues up here .... the Sharks play a fantastic hard brand of footy when their backs are against the wall. I might even chuck a ten'er on -em if it was to happen!

------------------
Anyway, that's what I reckon ........

mud n blood

 

[Dan26]

Roylion,

I think the AFL's master plan ius exactly as you put it, but replace Canberra with Tasmania.

8 clubs in Melbourne, 2 each in Sydney, WA, SA and Sydney, 1 in Brisbane and 1 in Canberra.

Actually, now that i think of it, you said NSW/ACT, so you're presuming that there is only one Sydney team, plus a team in Canberra. Sorry about that. You;re rigth actually.

I'm still not sure about Tas, though. Not very many people there. Hobart has only got about 250,000 people.

Ideally, The AFL probably wants North to relocate to Canberra and become the Canberra kangaroos. And the Western Bulldogs to relocate to either Western Sydney or Hobart.

I think thses moves, would enhance the comp actually. As a supporter of a traditional Melbourne based club, do you think it would ? A lot of traditional supporters don't think it would, but I persoanlly think it would. Do you ?

[This message has been edited by Dan24 (edited 03 November 2000).]

 

[ptw]

Gotta say Drakey I agree with most of what 1870 says, the McClub called the Crows, they never thought twice about their members until Port came in in '97.

Forget about the AFL how about this for a league.

4 Teams from SANFL (Port Magpies, Norwood, Sturt and a combined side)
4 from Westar don't know who but 4 good ones.
1 From NT - aready joining the SANFL
Fitzroy
Tassie
Southport

It would have the financial backing of 4 AFL sides as the SANFL and Westar own the licenses. You could run a promotion / demotion system with the local leagues.

Port vs Fitzroy

Norwood vs Southport

NT vs Subiaco ??

I would go, but I have no life.

ptw

 

[ptw]

Drakey

1870 lives in the past....Crow's supporters do not.

Why do dogs lick their balls ?

ptw

 

[CJH]

Dan,

I can’t believe that you aren’t giving any credence to the idea of Southport fielding a relocated side in the AFL. You seem to be so logical and methodical with your opinions yet seem to be missing the boat on this issue

They have facilities that would make most Melbourne clubs drool. They are loaded with the folding stuff. They are the 4th largest sporting club in Queensland with 53,000 social members. Admittedly not all of these would become full season members, but with clever marketing it would not be unreasonable to expect - say - half of them to join. All this has been achieved without having an AFL team to support.

Compound this blissful scenario with the relocated club’s Melbourne based supporters (say 20,000) who are largely happy with the relocation / merger as it has been done on their terms, which involves no loss of identity. This is a club that would have a starting membership of 40,000+ and with sponsors clambering over each other to sign up.

Now, unlike others, I do believe that Western Sydney can be conquered. I also believe that this will ultimately be very prosperous. But this will take a lot of time and support, with the very real risk that the venture will fail. On the other hand, Southport carries a lot less risk and the results will be immediate.

This argument is ultimately academic. I feel that we will see at least 2 clubs on the move within the next few years. However, if I was a director at these clubs, I know which one looks the most attractive to me.

------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

[This message has been edited by CJH (edited 04 November 2000).]

 

[servo]

Just when I was beginning to think the Port supporters on this site would not stoop to the levels of some other fans & their argument that just because you barrack for a certain team you must be an imbocile, they go and shatter my illusion.

Just because you disagree with what one Crow supporter says, you come out and bag the whole club and all of its supporters.

I support the Crows with a passion. I am also a smiling Central Districts supporter, also with a passion, I have not deserted them. I do not dwell on the past, not even the two recent Crow premierships. I support the Crows because I am a South Australian. My second team is Port Adelaide for the same reason. I guarantee you that had Port been the 1st SA side in the AFL they would now be my 1st side and the Crows would be my 2nd.

Your convenient generalisations are disappointing.

 

[servo]

Now, as for the Redleg question. In hindsight the AFL would have been better off with both Norwood & Port instead of the Crows from the beginning. But hindsight is not a lot of use.

There will not be 3 SA sides in the AFL in our lifetimes for obvious logistical reasons. The debate is not productive for that reason.

The only way Norwood will enter is at the Crows expense. I don't think that will happen.

 

[Dan26]

PA 1870,

You tend to annoy me more than any other poster on this board, and believe me there are some doozies.

Why don't you get your head out of that South Australian fishbowl and realise that S.A is not the centre of the universe. Every post you make seems to be a lecture on how great S.A football is/was and how Port Adelaide are the greatest club on the planet etc etc.

Now, I've gone over all this many times with you, and unlike you, I and not blinded by the facts that come from "states" other than my own.

First of all, thwe SANFL comp is no different to what it was in 1995. I know you'll spin all that crap about how the club in the SANFL now is not the same Port Adelaide. Try telling that to the Port supporters who will "claim" a 36th premeirship (or whatever number they are up to), should the Magpies win in 2001.

You went on about how the SANFL "is not the same" since Port left. Well, the crowds that the Port Adelaide Magpies draw these days are no different to what Port Adelaide got in 1995. The same people still support the "black&white" Port Adelaide, whether they are legally separate or not.

Then you go on about the Crows. The Crows ARE passionately supported. In fact they are one of the most parochailly supported teams in the league. Their supporters have always been willing to travel and are as enthusiastic as one could find.

So what if they were formed in 1991 ? Who cares ? All clubs start differently. They are a club in their own right, and have far more support than Port do, How they got that support is largely irrelevant. The fact is they have massive support.

It would not be wise to have two tradtitional S.A clubs in the AFL like port and Norwood. By having a team such as the Crows, the AFL gets 40,000 people at Footy Park every week. They also get 40,000 members. it is a WISE decision to form a "new' club in 1991, because this "new" club can draw of the support of the whole state, including Port Adelaide Magpies supporters.

You talk rubbish about how Port stand for what is "good and right", whie the Crows are some sort of "invention". Well, this invention is far richer, more supported and sucessful in the AFL than Port are, so who's laughing ?

And please, don't compare the SANFL to the VFL. I've told you before, I respect all the great players than have come from South Australia. They've obviously had some great teams etc etc.

But on "average" they can't copete with the old VFL. I posted something a while back on the clashes between the VFL and the SANFL (before State of Origin). Beleive it or not, The SANFL won a couple of matches, but the overall number was about 58 to 18, or some massive difference like that in favour of the VFL.

It's got nothing to do with talent, just depth. When you can draw on 4 million Victorians, as opposed to 1.5 Million South Australians, you are obviously going to win a hell of a lot more than you lose. It's simple mathematics, PA 1870.

The VFL has always been the major league. No question. This doesn't make it's teams unbeatable....it just ensures they beat their WA and SA opponents a hell of a lot more reularly. It also ensured that the best players from WA and SA came over to the Vic League.

Even if not many came over in the early part of the century, there were still quite a few. More came in the 1970's, but there were still HEAPS in the 1920's and 30's that came over. How many Victorians went to play in the slightly inferior WAFL and SANFL ? Harldy any.

So, for once in your fishbowled South Australian life....show a bit of common sense.

Accept that the Crows are a massive club. It doesn't mater how they are. Just accept that they are bigger than the Port Power. I've also heard there are many supporters of the SANFL version of Port that barrack for the Crows. Why not ? The Crows were the only SA team in the AFL, so they got the support of all South Australia. I suppose Port supportes are special, so they wouldn't support them, eh ? There was even a Port Magpies supporter on these boards some months ago, who barracks for the Crows in the AFL. Chev1977, I think his name was.

[This message has been edited by Dan24 (edited 03 November 2000).]

 

[Westy Boy]

I haven't posted an essay in a while.... i need my fix...

It's a little off topic but hey.....

Had Port Adelaide been the first SA team to be "promoted" to the AFL, most of their support, IMHO, would have come from the SANFL Port Magpies. Granted, that support would have been (and is) enough backing for an AFL club to be successful, but the problem lies in whether the rest of the SANFL supporters would have to swallow their pride and "defect" to following Port in order to support an AFL club from SA. I doubt many would. But i can't say that categorically, as it is only my opinion. I'm not saying that they wouldn't continue following their respective SANFL clubs, but their "passion" for Port wouldn't be as "genuine" as a true Port supporter's would be. Their would be a collective gap between lifelong supporters, and supporters there to follow the only SA team in the AFL.

In the Crows, Adelaide/SA had a team with no prior history (love it or hate it), with ALL South Australians, (including Port supporters who wanted to support a team in the AFL) being able to barrack for them, irrespective of previous allegances in the SANFL. I think that was ideal.

I give you this example Port1870. Suppose you were busting to have an AFL team to support in the AFL. If Norwood had of been the team "promoted" in 1991 (with no Crows), and Port Adelaide had still been "stuck" in the SANFL, would you be following an AFL team now? Would you disregard your great passion for your team, to follow the arch rival(?) in the AFL? I doubt it.

Conversly, if hypothetically, Port were to somehow have become extinct in 1991 (i know you'd probably NEVER follow anyone else judging from your passion- but please answer the question as if you HAD to choose), and the only options you had to follow where Norwood (Enemy) or the Crows (completely neutral at the time), who would you choose as your designated AFL team to follow??

(I think it has become blatantly obvious that I don't know much about the league in SA but bear with me)

In Melbourne, an (non- ideal) example would have been if the Melbourne Storm had have formed an alliance with say a Collingwood FC. There would be no way in the world I would have followed them, we would be seeing crowds (of 2000 people at most) consisting mainly of Collingwood supporters (if they would follow them at all

). But since it was team which every Melbournian was totally neutral with, they have no problems in following them.

Same with soccer, two opportunities have been missed in the Melbourne market due to total stupidity. Carlton and Collingwood Football Clubs formed alliances to build "new" soccer teams. Collingwood (who formed an alliance with HeidelbergSC- a predominately Greek supported team- further decreasing their appeal to the broader market) are extinct. Carlton, even though no longer having no allegance to the football club are dogged by the stigma associated with the club, and widening their supporter base has been near impossible, and heavy financial backing from individuals is the only thing keeping them alive. Let me tell you that had a VICTORIAN LIGHTNING (i know its lame) been formed, free of cultural and football alliances to which everyone would be completely neutral towards (like the crows), they would have been quite successful. Had of been a doggies venture I would have followed it as well (much like the Port scenario).... but who else would have??? Almost no-one!

I know soccer isn't quite relevant, but i used it to show what could happen with the already existing club entering new competion scenario, in a less than captured market. If the AFL had as little as a folowing as soccer, the Crows would be thriving as they would take almost the WHOLE market in Adelaide (which will be the ONLY way a team can survive in a lowly followed sport like soccer in the future), and Port would almost be extinct because of its inclusive supporter base.

Did I get the longest post on this thread...... YAAAY!!!

Sorry

 

[ptw]

Westy Boy

I think you are right. I do think you miss one point which is that for a lot of port supporters the Crows are not in fact neutral. This is mainly due to the circumstances in which they were formed (real us against them stuff). I think PA1870's original point, which I also agree with, was that Norwood had just as much supporter base and financial strength as Port and therefore could have also gone it alone. The fact that they now never will is somewhat sad, as they were a good club.

ptw

 

[Dan26]

I agree.

I think it's stupid how this PA1870 character bags the Crows because they were formed in 1991.

So ??

They have got their own supporters, and they are passionate supporters. They have won 2 premeirships and are a monster club. You can't tell supporters that "we're more passionate than you" etc etc. It's not Port Adelaides business to judge Adelaide.

It's almost like Port are so desperate to have something "over" Adelaide, that they bring out the tradition thing. These Port supporters say crap like :

"Yeah, we don't have as many supporters, or as many AFL premierships (none), or as much money, or as many members, nor were we the first SA team in the AFL. But, we were formed in 1870. This must mean we are better than you"

That's the Port logic for ya.

In 100 years times, the Crows will probably still be going, and they will hage forged a memorable history (as will have the West Coast Eagles, for that matter). The club was conceived as a club for ALL South Australians to support (including Port supporters, they are no different)

PA1870 needs to realsie that Port Adelaide magpies are/were just a big fish in a small pond. Now they're with the big boys and they've got to earn their respect again. I don't respect them much at the moment, because since joining the country's major competition, they have done sweet bugger all.

 

[dons_r_tops]

Thinks Biggest Problem with all of this reteric PA1870 & Dan24, is that it will NEVER happen. Should a NEW AFL have been formed in 1990 it probably would have consisted of teams from Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane, 2x Melbourne, Canberra, and possibly and a second SA Team. Assuming that all these team were new clubs. that would have left in place a perfectly good feeder league in each state with teams vying to enter the Premier division, and a relegation system similar to the English soccer league. But this would have never worked. If All the premiers of the state teams and the vic & sa runner up from the 1989 season played against each other in 1990, neither Essendon or Collingwood would have been in the league in 1990 and were clearly the best 2 teams of 1990, (even if peter sumich did cost essendon the premiership). The above would not have been followed by the people because contrary to dan24 thinks, the people would not have taken anything that was given recognition, (yes dan even the minor premiership). The Current Balance of Traditional, New, Relocated and Merged Clubs Is about all the AFL could sustain, All Traditional from each state would have seen exclusive support of the teams included. All New Clubs would not have the developed rivalry that the traditional clubs offer, All relocated clubs would lose their core supporter base, and All Merged Clubs would dissolution the supporters, So what we have now is a competition balanced so finely, a knife edge would be the best description.
As For Norwood they were a fine rival for port but to get that passion more parochial support was needed and the Crows Provide this "even in WA" the supporters you meet are very one eyed, although there arn't too many over here.

This completes my essay, How did I do?
This was my first Essay, how did I do?


------------------
2000 premiership

 

[Dan26]

Um, Dons are tops,

What are you talking about ?

What was the point of all that ?????

I NEVER said a brand new league would work if it was startd up. And anywauy, we weren't even talking about that. I was talking about how the VFL has always been the best league and how PA1870 doesn't know what he is on about. That's what I was talking about.

If you started a league up from scratch, of course no one would care, because all the clubs would be "new". But why are we even discussing this ? It's got nothing to do with my "top spot" thing. This has got NOTHING to do with what we were talking about anyway !

Did you accidently post on the wrong topic ????????

 

[Crow54]

I have to agree with you Dan24, you make good sense. But I wish you guys would keep your posts a bit shorter, by the time I've waded through them I've forgotten what the topics s'posed to be!!

)

What gets me is that the Power people joke about the Crows being the Chardonnay set, when they themselves charge more for reserving seats at Footy Park, and I'm sure a lot of their supporters enjoy a wine or two.

 

[Roylion]

Dan, I'm with CJH on this one....

I too find it difficult to believe that you aren’t giving any credence to the idea of Southport fielding a relocated side in the AFL. As CJH pointed out a club relocating here on their terms, with identity intact, playing 11 games at the Gabba, and 7 in Victoria at say Colonial, using the excellent Southport facilities as their home base would have a huge advantage, and would place them in a far better position than either Sydney or Brisbane were when they were initially established. The AFL has made it very clear to Southport that it expects a second AFL side in Queensland to play out of the Gabba, thus using the Gabba for 22 games a year.

I've already explained why I believe it would be a far better venture than a side relocating to Canberra or Western Sydney, although like CJH I believe both have potential and will sooner or later (probably later) have their own AFL team.

Another reason why I tend to support Southport over Canberra as the next AFL side in particular is because of the increasing population difference and James2's post on Bruce Stadium only re-inforces that view.

Between 1992 and 1997, Brisbane was the fastest growing capital city with a growth rate of 11%. In 1997 Brisbane had 1.5 million people living in it, which was half a million more than Adelaide (which supports two teams and has a growth rate of 1.5%) and Perth/Fremantle which has 1.3 million and a growth rate of 9%.

Added to that is the Gold Coast-Tweed area (which would be the core support area of Southport), which had 367,700 people living in the area in 1997 and a growth rate of 25%, making it the fastest growing urban area in Australia. Now considering that it is estimated by the AFL that it takes at least half a million people to support an AFL side, by the year 2002 based on those growth rates Brisbane will have 1.7 million people, while the Gold Coast-Tweed area will have a population of approximately 442,000 people. Even allowing for the fact that Queensland is a rugby dominated state (which from what I am told is quickly changing), by the year 2002, there would be enough of a population base to support a relecoated team from Melbourne. 10,000-15,000 Queensland members in its' first and second years as well as 10,000 odd members in Victoria, would make this side immediately competitive.

In July 1997, Canberra-Queanbeyan area had a population of 347,000, 20,000 people below that of the Gold Coast-Tweed area, with a growth rate of 6%. By 2002 at this rate they will have about 367,000, and be more than 75,000 people in arrears of the Gold Coast. Gold Coast has the added advantage of being less than 50 km from a major capital city.

 

[Dan26]

Roylion,

Those statistics are very persuasive.

But would 400,000 people in a rugby dominated state support an AFL team, when most of them - if they have an interest in AFL - would support the Brisbane Lions anyway ?

I don't care how rich the Southport club would be. That is largely irrelevant if no one cares about them. Most businesses exist primarily to make a profit.

Football clubs are different.

Of course they want to make a profit, but that is not their one and only goal every year, like a normal business. As long as a football club can meet it's debts, and compete year in year out, a fotball club will be happy. Most football clubs exist to service their supporters. It hepls to make,a profit, but it is not the most important thing, like it is for a company like BHP. Some clubs can even operate at a small loss each year, which is fine, as long as they can meet their debts.

I don't think a Southport club is "appropriate". I think that's the point we are all missing. Is it "appropriate" to have two teams in our 3rd biggest city, whilst our BIGGEST city still has only one team. Not to mention our nations captial, which used to be an AFL stroghold, which has 350,000 people of it's own. And one thing we KNOW about Canberra, is that the team would have support.

If a second QLD team was to come into the AFL wouldn't it be better to have one representing Northern Queensland ?

IMHO, a second Sydney team is the best option. But that's just my opinion. A market of 2 million people (or more!) in Western Sydney is more "appropriate" for the growth of the code than a second side playing out of the Gabba, representing a market of 400,000. And that will be the AFL's primary consideration - the growth of the code.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Dan24:
Most businesses exist primarily to make a profit. Football clubs are different ... Most football clubs exist to service their supporters ...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

...SLMFAO



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**floreat pica**