Not a Well Man

[Bernie]

I happen to catch Talking Footy last night and was shocked at the condition of Tim Watson. He looked and sounded totally shattered.

I don't think it's a good idea for him to continue coaching - for his own health. There have inevitably been a number of champions / nice blokes who have suffered because of coaching - Quinlan, Bartlett etc - and I think Tim should seek some of their advice. In fact they should be calling him to suggest alternative activities.

You're young ... you'll get over it.

 

[gocatsgo]

He looked like someone who was holding in his true feelings. I'd expect someday soon he might just explode, and I wouldn't want to be a player or journalist in the area when he does. (let's hope he lets Mike Sheehan have it soon!)

What is it about StKilda, all their coaches seem to age quick, (sorry sainter!) Look at Alan Jeans, Darryl Baldock, Stan Alves and now Tim. What's going on down there?

He certainly has gone grey quickly, hasn't he?

This trend seems to rub off on the Eagles as well, look at Malthouse now to what he was 10 years ago, even Ken Judge is looking a lot older than he did when he was at Hawthorn.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I agree - poor old Tim looked like he had just been told all the lifeboats have gone !

I feel sorry for the guy really, after a lifetime in football as a champion player, successful broadcaster and high-profile coach, now, for the first time in his life, he is experiencing failure on a continued and sustained basis and as everyone can see - its taking its toll.

 

[Joel]

I have to say I haven't always liked Tim but I feel really sorry for him at the moment, I mean what a pathetic excuse for a team he has down there at St.Kilda.

 

[sainter]

Absolutely hilarious Joel. It was at the same thing on Friday night. A few Collingwood supporters were saying, "gee St Kilda are s*it". As I reminded the person next to me Joel, worry about your own team before criticising others. Anyone who caught the game would know that a Collingwood supporter is not really in the position to make judgements about our teams.

Perhaps I am missing something gocatsgo

The last time I looked, Darryl Baldock and Alan Jeans were getting on in years. In fact, they are in the 60s or 70s and have both had considerable health scares recently. I know it was a thinly veiled attack on the club but please get your facts right.

As for Tim, I am not really surprised Bernie. The patience of anyone to do with the football club, either inside or outside the club, is starting to run out.

 

[Daniel]

He looked like typical Tim Watson to me: vaguely annoyed and always prevaricating. He was the most negative guest Talking Footy have had this year. I was really hoping Mike Sheahan would continue with his irksome questions because I thought with a little more provocation, Watson was ready to go nuclear.

Sure, he was a great player and possibly a nice guy, but I have always disliked Tim Watson, the coach. I thought it was funny that St. Kilda should hire a coach with no previous experience.

Coming out of the media, one would think he would have developed a tolerance and understanding of the role journalists must play. But no, he has that veiled arrogance and seems to enjoy taking terse swipes at members of the media.

I'm sorry for St. Kilda, although it is their own fault, but I'm happy to see Watson fail.

 

[Arch]

Sainter,
tims a legend no matter what- he will lead st kilda to the promised land and become known as one of their greatest ever coaches, in years to come.

(optimism is a thing of beauty init?)

A.

keep your chin up man- beleive it or not, im barracking my guts out for you guys (and tim more to the point) every single week- i doubt thats any consolation though.

 

[Drakey]

It' always interesting to see ex players who leave the media to coach.

As Blight would say Tim is learning the difference between being an opinion maker & a decission maker.

I am constatntly amused by footy scribes and the rest who claim that so & so in the media would be a good coach ie Dermie & Healy. Sure they were great players & know a lot about the game but that doesn't mean they can coach. Look at Pagan. I had never even heard of him until he started coaching.

Watson has to bare much of the blaim for the Saints current situation.

Most of the blaim however should rest with the senior players.

 

[sainter]

Thanks Arch!

Optimism is the ONLY thing that keeps me going!

It must be so hard for him at the moment, leaving a team that was so successful to the predicament he finds himself in now.

Who knows with the first few draft picks, plenty of room in the salary cap and the opportunity to pick up some uncontracted players, it might turn around for us and him.

Daniel,

Firstly I don't remember the criticism that Collingwood received for hiring Leigh Matthews or St Kilda for hiring Alan Jeans as untried coaches.

And secondly, with the crap that Tim has had to put up with from the media, do you blame him for being a little guarded?

Everyone knows that the media have held a grudge against Tim because he lied about being appointed the coach of St Kilda. It was the RIGHT thing to do because he had a responsibility to Channel 7 at the time.

I am not ashamed to admit that I have a bit of faith in Tim (which amongst saints supporters would put me very much on the minority)

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

sainter what do you think of the silly rumours going around at the moment about what StK are going to do about their list at the end fo the season ?

You guys are not seriously thinking of off-loading Peter Everitt are you ?

However Jason Heatleys position at the club just now makes him attractive trade bait I think ?

sainter, given we are both just wishing the season would end right now, it seems appropriate to start talking about the post season trading period. After all what else do we have to talk about ?

 

[Bernie]

Sainter,

It seems that the 'joi de vivre' has gone out of footy at Moorabin at present and I can't see too much of this coming from the coach. He's probably contemplating slipping on the jumper and taking to the field to relieve the frustrations.

I must highly recommend the Saints Fan Forum for a great insight into the collective mind of Saints fans - very funny, very passionate . It's a shame other clubs don't do more of that - I'm sure it improves the mental health of all the participants.

They were all hanging out for Leppitsch to sign - apparently $1.9m over 3 years !!! These figures just boggle the mind.

 

[Drakey]

sainter

What do you think is wrong with the saints & how can they fix it?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Leppitsch has also been linked to the Swans

but hey - just about every uncontracted player is going to 'linked to the Swans' in some way or another between now and Xmas.

Leppitsch will end up re-signing with the Lions I think - damn !

 

[Drakey]

According to a post on the saints web site Leppitsch has already signed with the lions.

 

[Daniel]

Sainter,

Every coach has to start somewhere, but isn't it true that Watson had no previous experience and St. Kilda signed him on a 5-year contract? I'm unsure about Matthews and Jeans. Had they coached at any level prior to taking over a VFL/AFL club?

I think with the crap Tim has given the media, you can't blame them for giving him a hard time.

I had actually forgotten that he lied about being appointed coach.

I never liked Watson as a media person so I've always had this personal dislike of him as a coach. It's probably not rational, but neither are a lot of things in football.

 

[Drakey]

You can't realy compare signing Watson as an untried coach with either Matthews of Jeans. Especialy Jeans.

They were employed in a different era. You might think this is a bit of a stretch with Matthews but footy has changed heaps in the last 10-12 years as we all know.

Obviously the point isn't that he is a 1st time coach. Someone has to give coaches their 1st job & look at Thompson & Frawley. It's that he had no experience as an assistent.

In many ways this reminds me of the old playing coach v non playing coach argument.

 

[Joel]

Sainter you are an idiot aren't you? Now why wouldn't I have the right to call St.Kilda shit? Just admit it, I could last year, why can't you? The fact is while St.Kilda might be "rebuilding" or whatver they are still shit. Case closed! Also another fact is that our team is younger than yours, and less inexperienced....just how much does this present St.Klda side got going for it? Not much!

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 23 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 23 June 2000).]

 

[sainter]

Yes Joel, I am an idiot.
In the future I will refrain from trying to have informed conversations with the likes of you.

BA, the general conversation in the saints fan forum has very quickly turned towards trading and drafting. As for Spider, I would very much doubt him being traded. He seems happy at the club and Tim Watson has repeatedly said that he sees Spider as a future leader of the club. As for Heater, I don't like saying this but if you think he would be a valuable asset in Sydney, you are welcome to have him. He is a far too one-dimensional player, being only able to mark on his chest and has poor second efforts. I have to admit that the poor delivery into the forward line has limited his effectiveness but personally I feel his time at the club is limited. But Heater in full flight is one of my favourite players and I would love to see him turn it around.

Bernie, you have made a good point. However, aside from financial constraints in having to pay him out of his contract, I would very much love to see him coach of the St Kilda Football Club next year. We have a real opportunity to rebuild the club with very early draft picks and room in the salary cap to hopefully pick up a big name or two. We are in the midst of a lean period and I would hate for a new coach to come in and take advantage of the work that has been done this year in bringing through so much youth during the season.

Drakey, I think the only answer is a complete revamp of the playing list. Many hard decisions will need to be made and these will include trading/delisting some highly regarded players who sprung to prominence in 1997. Personally there are two of our rookie-listed players that I would like to see promoted and I think the draft will be a perfect opportunity to get some of the best youngsters to the club.

As for the fan forum, it is certainly an experience. In between the posts from the lovestruck teenage girls and the anti-Colonial, Plympton and Watson factions, it can be quite imformative. In fact, after one of our more devastating losses (either the Richmond or bulldogs match), the Herald-Sun quoted about 3 or 4 entries as representative of the feelings of St Kilda supporters in general which was ridiculous.

Sorry, I have waffled on a little bit here. And what do you know, it is almost 7:30, game time! If we don't win (which is a good possibility), I am hoping that young Schwarze and Baker are given an extended run because they deserve it.

 

[Bernie]

Just heard of Tim Watson's future plans - not involving life-threatening stress. Thank goodness he took the plunge now.

I suggest a rest, some media and then posssibly assistant coaching interstate ( maybe Brisbane ) just to get over it all.

The only good thing to come out of this is that the record of Stan Alves will be reassessed. I was always amazed that the Saints gave him the flick - but the Collingwood passed up both Quinlan and Lockett because they might be too disruptive !

So who's in line now ? The Blues have any number of coaches keen to take over.

 

[gocatsgo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Stan Alves get the sack from StKilda because he had a go at Max Hudghton in a final at the SCG?

It surely couldn't have been because of his record, he along with Sheldon had done remarkable things with what was a young team at the time.

So, who will be the next coach of StKilda?

They have to be tough, make the hard decisions and be prepared to re-build in the next few years.

How about Woosher?

He is doing an aprenticeship under David Parkin, is renouned for his toughness and wouldn't be afraid to make the hard decisions.

Maybe Gary O'Donnell, but similar to Watson, he's probably too nice for the position, I couldn't see him giving a blast to anyone.

Who knows.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

GcG

I remember Stan Alves little outburst in the Qualifying Final at the SCG quite vividly, I was there.

What I think the story is that it wasn't so much this particular outburst that cost Stan his job, it was rather a whole succession of these kinds of dummy-spits that Stan had indulged in during the latter part of '98. The cumulative effect was to turn alot of senior players against him - and the views of these senior players were what finally turned the Biard against Stan.

Am I right sainter ? - please clarify if not.

In the end, it got down to a concept known as 'player power'. Stan had lost the confidence of the StK core of senior players, and unforunately this turned out to be decisive.

A damn bloody shame in my opinion. StK would most certainly not be under the hammer as much as they are today if Stan was still at the helm.

 

[Shinboners]

Speaking of Stan Alves, for a man who has taken St. Kilda to a Grand Final, and then a follow up finals series in '98, it was strange that when all the coaching positions were up for grabs for the start of this season, his name was hardly mentioned.

 

[Daniel]

That's true. Has Alves renounced coaching or is he just biding time in the media before he receives an offer? I really like the guy and it would be good to see him coaching again.