Strategy Not enough bigs

[kp junior]

We don't pick enough talls, particularly forward, every week.

To compare our current big forwards and rucks to WCE:

Natainui, Lycett, Kennedy, Darling, Waterman.

vs

Sandilands, blank, Cox, McCarthy, blank

Its ridiculous

 

[StingBitten]

I get the frustration, but we've got a few different threads discussing this - 'Melt Thread', 'Freo List', 'Freo are one KPF from finals'etc

 

[Joao]

We don't pick enough talls, particularly forward, every week.

To compare our current big forwards and rucks to WCE:

Natainui, Lycett, Kennedy, Darling, Waterman.

vs

Sandilands, blank, Cox, McCarthy, blank

Its ridiculous

Pretty sure if we had JJK and Darling we would play them.

You don't just pick more talls because WC do. That is their strength. It is clearly not ours.

 

[kp junior]

Pretty sure if we had JJK and Darling we would play them.

You don't just pick more talls because WC do. That is their strength. It is clearly not ours.

We are picking Cox, who is borderline ready, and McCarthy who is out of form. Because structurally we need talls. But why not then, for the same rationale, pick a 2nd ruckman? We have 4 or 5 playing for Peel. Why not a 3rd tall forward? We have Kersten. We are choosing a structure that has less talls than most clubs, intentionally.

 

[blue shark]

WC do have 2 mature elite Talls, usually it is Kennedy dominating but someone is smart enough to know that makes
them predictable. They don't spoil each other, use decoys, smalls, mediums know their role.
What's the difference is that Simpson is playing Waterman, Rioli.
Waterman pick 77, Rioli pick 52, and all of them are true forwards. Waterman is basically a rookie pick.

 

[Joao]

We are picking Cox, who is borderline ready, and McCarthy who is out of form. Because structurally we need talls. But why not then, for the same rationale, pick a 2nd ruckman? We have 4 or 5 playing for Peel. Why not a 3rd tall forward? We have Kersten. We are choosing a structure that has less talls than most clubs, intentionally.

The only teams that play lots of talls are the ones who have lots of GOOD talls. Adelaide, WC, GWS etc

The problem isn't the structure per se, it is that our players in structural positions aren't that good. Throwing more blokes who aren't good enough in there will make it worse not better.

We just have to be patient and wait for our talls to mature. There is no magic fix. It takes time, end of story.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

I don't think there's enough tall midfielders either. Fyfe and Mundy aside, maybe Banfield, the rest are on the smaller size.

 

[G Mus]

West Coast and Adelaide are outliers in terms of numbers of talls, not the norm

Heck look at the last two premiers

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I agree with Joao, this isn't a week-by-week selection problem. If anything it's a list management problem.
For me the bigger issue is --right now-- we don't even up the numbers ahead of the ball.
If you have a strong full forward who can be effective 2 on 1 and plenty of running power so high half forwards/midfielders can consistently run deep forward when we have the ball, then playing one down in the forward line can be very effective.
But right now we have neither. So I believe we should cut our forward line to suit our cloth and always play even numbers forward of the ball. Our tackle pressure would improve straight away and the talls we do have would have a much better shot of competing in the air if they weren't outnumbered.

 

[wild side]

West Coast and Adelaide are outliers in terms of numbers of talls, not the norm

Heck look at the last two premiers

North have a few

 

[Taylor]

The outnumber in the forward line is also a by-product of a shortage of dangerous options. The percentage play for defense against Freo is to guard the dangerous space 30m out in front, which we kick to because it's the easiest place to defend a turnover (from a bounce) from and the most likely place to generate a score from a spillage - we aren't restricted/defended by a boundary line.

I don't think we have the players to have a cramped forward line full of 12 players (6 of ours and 6 of them). We can't create space for our forwards by leading away from the dangerous areas - defenders won't follow. So we keep our players out of the fifty and then try and kick to a vacant space for our forwards to lead onto to mark, but at the moment McCarthy is running backwards, takes his eye off the ball and his opponent reads the ball in flight better to beat him either at the contest or to it.

The best thing we can do for our forward line is to deliver inside fifty from center of the true CHF position. Then dummy leads can make space as all options are dangerous... but so is the kick to that position in the first place as we usually work up the congested flanks, so a turnover from there leaves perhaps 10 players out of the game as the ball flies back the open side.

West Coast has two very good forwards so the defenders stay close to them, when a midfielder or one of their rucks has marked just outside fifty one will draw the intercepting tall back with him away from the target space for the other to compete in a one on one in.

We don't have that opposition respect for our options until Sandilands sits in the square and panics the opposition defense.

 

[blue shark]

I agree with Joao, this isn't a week-by-week selection problem. If anything it's a list management problem.
For me the bigger issue is --right now-- we don't even up the numbers ahead of the ball.
If you have a strong full forward who can be effective 2 on 1 and plenty of running power so high half forwards/midfielders can consistently run deep forward when we have the ball, then playing one down in the forward line can be very effective.
But right now we have neither. So I believe we should cut our forward line to suit our cloth and always play even numbers forward of the ball. Our tackle pressure would improve straight away and the talls we do have would have a much better shot of competing in the air if they weren't outnumbered.

So in simple terms you what you are saying is equal numbers of forwards to defenders?
Be that a ruck/forward, another 3rd tall will do?
We don't have Tabs, but add Kersten, Nads, with Cox and a change of plan 6 on 6 forward line
Both the above players are forwards, and Nads, Cox can ruck which is a bonus.

 

[Taylor]

None of the forwards in the league sit inside attacking fifty all game, that's why Alex Pearce covers up to 17km a game.

When our midfield and forwards are in sync the forwards will be able to turn blind like a running player in NFL, the ball is already on the way to the space before they have turned and they either catch it or fumble. The trick then will be the forward identifying that his opponent is between him and where he will be marking the ball. Lots of free kick potential for a forward who over runs the drop zone, turns to face the ball and attacks it - his opponent is still travelling towards the player so he makes front on contact. That's a win.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Another melt thread, cool!

 

[blue shark]

None of the forwards in the league sit inside attacking fifty all game, that's why Alex Pearce covers up to 17km a game.

When our midfield and forwards are in sync the forwards will be able to turn blind like a running player in NFL, the ball is already on the way to the space before they have turned and they either catch it or fumble. The trick then will be the forward identifying that his opponent is between him and where he will be marking the ball. Lots of free kick potential for a forward who over runs the drop zone, turns to face the ball and attacks it - his opponent is still travelling towards the player so he makes front on contact. That's a win.

So does the in sync magically appear, can we buy some beans? I think that maybe a coaching, structure set play
might have something to do with scoring.
Our forwards will turn blind then watch the ball go over their heads.

 

[Taylor]

So does the in sync magically appear, can we buy some beans? I think that maybe a coaching, structure set play
might have something to do with scoring.
Our forwards will turn blind then watch the ball go over their heads.

The trouble is that if you make your set plays and structures too simple it is easier to defend against.

 

[Kenny_01]

We don't pick enough talls, particularly forward, every week.

To compare our current big forwards and rucks to WCE:

Natainui, Lycett, Kennedy, Darling, Waterman.

vs

Sandilands, blank, Cox, McCarthy, blank

Its ridiculous

But for the same comparison with Richmond,

It's Sandilands, Cox, McCarthy

vs

Nankervis, Riewoldt, blank

It's about assessing what resources you have and building a gameplan around that, not the other way around.

 

[kp junior]

Another melt thread, cool!

Maybe you could start a “we are doing everything perfectly as a football club” thread. I’m sure Scon has enough content to keep that ticking over indefinitely


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Maybe you could start a “we are doing everything perfectly as a football club” thread. I’m sure Scon has enough content to keep that ticking over indefinitely


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously?

Freo played two key forwards then Tabs went down injured.

Our other key forwards have either been injured or they aren't fit enough for AFL re Apeness.

Freo have recruited talls. Some are playing well such as Hamling and A Pearce. Some such as Ape have been injured and others such as Kersten have done little at AFL level.

It's pretty bloody obvious.

 

[Joao]

Seriously?

Freo played two key forwards then Tabs went down injured.

Our other key forwards have either been injured or they aren't fit enough for AFL re Apeness.

Freo have recruited talls. Some are playing well such as Hamling and A Pearce. Some such as Ape have been injured and others such as Kersten have done little at AFL level.

It's pretty bloody obvious.

But I want it now!

Why is it that only Freo take 4-5 years to develop talls? How come McCarthy is the only 193cm player ever to take more than 50 games to come good?

So does the in sync magically appear, can we buy some beans? I think that maybe a coaching, structure set play
might have something to do with scoring.
Our forwards will turn blind then watch the ball go over their heads.

We have some minor magic beans playing at home. Do it much better there (outside of the half of the WC game).

The other magic beans are when the squad is more experienced.

 

[Ysaye]

Really good points made Taylor.

For mine I think longer term this make Dixon a good option that fits with our approach because he is very good at judging the flight of the ball running back and is good at protecting the drop of the ball.

 

[Lach72]

None of the forwards in the league sit inside attacking fifty all game, that's why Alex Pearce covers up to 17km a game.

When our midfield and forwards are in sync the forwards will be able to turn blind like a running player in NFL, the ball is already on the way to the space before they have turned and they either catch it or fumble. The trick then will be the forward identifying that his opponent is between him and where he will be marking the ball. Lots of free kick potential for a forward who over runs the drop zone, turns to face the ball and attacks it - his opponent is still travelling towards the player so he makes front on contact. That's a win.

On TV you get maybe two or three shots per game that give down the ground vision.

You can't see how far the team moves up and down.

Will be interesting to see what North do. How far up will they run Brown and Waite?

 

[Joao]

Really good points made Taylor.

For mine I think longer term this make Dixon a good option that fits with our approach because he is very good at judging the flight of the ball running back and is good at protecting the drop of the ball.

Excellent field and goal kick as well if I am not mistaken? Having another player capable of lower their eyes and hitting targets inside 50 can't hurt.

 

[eastfreo75]

Their no point playing Talls for the stake of Talls.

If a tall isn’t up to AFL standard then play a small who is.

 

[Bicco]

I don't think the issue is talls per se, it's our structure with what we have.
Our best runner is Sheridan, now Im no Sheridan fan but why can't he be used/trialled in a Marco Bresciano role? That is patrolling the centre of the ground from deep D50 through to 25m out F50. The role involves massive repeat sprints often 100-150m. His job is to always be an option forward of the ball when attacking and then being a space filler/interceptor when defending.
Im not saying this should happen but Id like to see things mixed up a bit.
We've got a good defense and great midfield but are so one dimensional moving forward.
Of course as supporters we can just hope it all works out in a year or two. Which unfortunately I think we're going to have to do.
Ross the boss and all that.