Novak Djokovic refused entry.

[TheGreatGrundy]

Technically they will be billed where they have no insurance cover. How do you force a tourist to pay who will most likely be home by the time of enforcement?

You'd have to detain them before letting them go, which would be controversial and even more expense.

An ICU bed comes in at around $4500 per day so the bill can get big quickly!

We have learned to be ruthlessly tough on people with every good reason in the world to visit the corpse of a close relative. I would like to see Janette Young in Queensland given the task of ensuring that foreign free loaders on our hospital system are milked for every dollar they owe and more.

 

[slugger01]

That's a very slippery slope. Should smokers pay for nicotine induced disease, should drinkers pay for illness and injury related to consumption? Where do you stop

Do insurance companies pay for the car accident you have while you chose to drink and are over the alcohol limit when you had the accident?

 

[MyManLynch]

We have learned to be ruthlessly tough on people with every good reason in the world to visit the corpse of a close relative. I would like to see Janette Young in Queensland given the task of ensuring that foreign free loaders on our hospital system are milked for every dollar they owe and more.

Isn’t Travel Insurance mandatory now? With Covid. Airlines insist?
Would that not cover most Hospitalisation costs?

 

[jathanas]

Djokovic is misguided and entitled but not getting vaccinated is his right. It is also a choice, so he had to wear the consequences.

He should never have been allowed in but he was and TA together with the government have handled it poorly.

No winners here.

 

[Gone Critical]

Do insurance companies pay for the car accident you have while you chose to drink and are over the alcohol limit when you had the accident?

No they don't pay for the damage to the cars if you are over the limit as I understand it. The medical bills get looked after by TAC/medicare, the driver doesnt pay those.

 

[slugger01]

No they don't pay for the damage to the cars if you are over the limit as I understand it. The medical bills get looked after by TAC/medicare, the driver doesnt pay those.

Yep, so there is insurance for those. Medicare and TAC are effectively an insurance system.
Lets bring back personal responsibility, and conscious contribution to an outcome, or obvious rejection of an act to mitigate an event. It means you suffer the consequences and financial pain to the condition you created.
You ask where do we stop? I say we stop at the end.
You don't get vaxxed, and you contract the disease and end up in ICU on a ventilator, then that is an event that you could have mitigated. It doesn't mean that it definitely would have been mitigated, but you took steps that were available to do that.

Same with your examples. Drinking, smoking, drug use.

 

[slugger01]

Djokovic is misguided and entitled but not getting vaccinated is his right. It is also a choice, so he had to wear the consequences.

He should never have been allowed in but he was and TA together with the government have handled it poorly.

No winners here.

Everyone is blaming the Government. I can't see what error they did. There is only ONE thing that a government department did that was an error, that Kelly thought was so bad, the world would have ended if he didn't rule against the government decision.
That thing was that BF cancelled his visa at 7.45am instead of 8.45am, because a BF employee said he will give him until 8.30am before a decision is made. That is the ONLY REASON WHY THE FIRST DECISION TO CANCEL HIS VISA WAS REVERSED!.

The Government then had to go through the next process, to protect US from opening loopholes that effectively weaken our border control laws.

This process had nothing to do with Vaxxing, medical exemptions, granting visa's online, or painting a simple tennis player as a threat to society (like an assassin is), nor was it a political stunt.

It was simply a process to enforce to the world that our government controls our borders, and if you don't fit all the criteria set down, and try to get around the intended rules of entry, you will be deported. And the Government has the power and means to do that.

If everyone looks at it in this light, and accepts there are people Australia don't want to enter our borders, then this confirms that process, and that the government can exclude those people, and not fail on stupid technicalities (like Kelly decided were important).

The fault in all this mess should be solely directed to ND, and probably moreso to TA, for they are the people who aided, abetted and made out that they are the expert authority in immigration laws.

 

[jathanas]

Everyone is blaming the Government. I can't see what error they did. There is only ONE thing that a government department did that was an error, that Kelly thought was so bad, the world would have ended if he didn't rule against the government decision.
That thing was that BF cancelled his visa at 7.45am instead of 8.45am, because a BF employee said he will give him until 8.30am before a decision is made. That is the ONLY REASON WHY THE FIRST DECISION TO CANCEL HIS VISA WAS REVERSED!.

The Government then had to go through the next process, to protect US from opening loopholes that effectively weaken our border control laws.

This process had nothing to do with Vaxxing, medical exemptions, granting visa's online, or painting a simple tennis player as a threat to society (like an assassin is), nor was it a political stunt.

It was simply a process to enforce to the world that our government controls our borders, and if you don't fit all the criteria set down, and try to get around the intended rules of entry, you will be deported. And the Government has the power and means to do that.

If everyone looks at it in this light, and accepts there are people Australia don't want to enter our borders, then this confirms that process, and that the government can exclude those people, and not fail on stupid technicalities (like Kelly decided were important).

The fault in all this mess should be solely directed to ND, and probably moreso to TA, for they are the people who aided, abetted and made out that they are the expert authority in immigration laws.

I see your point. The feds did send TA 2 letters clarifying that people who had tested positive to Covid-19 within six months did not meet exemption requirements to enter the country but one might argue that the lack of clarity regarding the rules were the reason ND arrived here in the first place. The fed govt would take some responsibility for this. It's not enough to have the rule, one must ensure it is well & widely understood.

The state government of Victoria was part of the panel that granted the exemption for ND to come. Clearly they were blissfully unaware of the federal rules in place which is a colossal WTF.

One hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. Not a finely tuned machine.

 

[NMBB]

I see your point. The feds did send TA 2 letters clarifying that people who had tested positive to Covid-19 within six months did not meet exemption requirements to enter the country but one might argue that the lack of clarity regarding the rules were the reason ND arrived here in the first place. The fed govt would take some responsibility for this. It's not enough to have the rule, one must ensure it is well & widely understood.

The state government of Victoria was part of the panel that granted the exemption for ND to come. Clearly they were blissfully unaware of the federal rules in place which is a colossal WTF.

One hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. Not a finely tuned machine.

Entitled Serbian tennis player meets 3 way Austn c*ck up - Feds, Dan's mob and TA - now we've got China, France and Serbia offside - at least Hardistan still loves us

 

[sr36]

I see your point. The feds did send TA 2 letters clarifying that people who had tested positive to Covid-19 within six months did not meet exemption requirements to enter the country but one might argue that the lack of clarity regarding the rules were the reason ND arrived here in the first place. The fed govt would take some responsibility for this. It's not enough to have the rule, one must ensure it is well & widely understood.

The state government of Victoria was part of the panel that granted the exemption for ND to come. Clearly they were blissfully unaware of the federal rules in place which is a colossal WTF.

One hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. Not a finely tuned machine.

Bureaucracies all around the world have struggled with the changing rules, but it seems bloody incompetent to not know what the exemptions are when you have a new rule put in place with some allowable exemptions. And it's not like it was a grey area - you either were or weren't allowed an exemption for recent covid.

 

[slugger01]

I see your point. The feds did send TA 2 letters clarifying that people who had tested positive to Covid-19 within six months did not meet exemption requirements to enter the country but one might argue that the lack of clarity regarding the rules were the reason ND arrived here in the first place. The fed govt would take some responsibility for this. It's not enough to have the rule, one must ensure it is well & widely understood.

The state government of Victoria was part of the panel that granted the exemption for ND to come. Clearly they were blissfully unaware of the federal rules in place which is a colossal WTF.

One hand not knowing what the other hand is doing. Not a finely tuned machine.

Yep, either is was blissfully unaware, or it didn't want to see the rules. There have been copies of letters published in the media, from the Health Minister to TA, clearly stating that contracting COVID was not a condition that satisfied the medical exemption condition. TA either didn't see this, or they ignored it.
The Panel of the Vic Govt and TA decision was based on the rules of entering Victoria and the rules of playing in the Australian open. They could have rules stating that you can be an assassin, and that condition would get you a no1 ranking (lol). That has nothing to do with the rules of entering Australia, either as a visitor or a ciitizen.
Again, blame the Vic Govt and TA for their ignorance, or dismissive attitude of BF rules. Not the Australian Federal Govt.

 

[slugger01]

Entitled Serbian tennis player meets 3 way Austn c*ck up - Feds, Dan's mob and TA - now we've got China, France and Serbia offside - at least Hardistan still loves us

No. The cockup was squarely to TA's ignorance, and the Vic Govt to an extent, although all they did was to rule on whether they could enter Victoria. Their decision may still be correct.
But TA - they ruled that an unvaxxed player can play in their tournament if they had a medical exemptio that was adjudicated as valid by an independant medical panel. What they negligently didn't advise was that their decision had nothing to do with the entry requirements into Australia. They either deliberately did this to keep quiet and hope ND slips through, or they live in their blissfully negligent world.

 

[sr36]

No. The cockup was squarely to TA's ignorance, and the Vic Govt to an extent, although all they did was to rule on whether they could enter Victoria. Their decision may still be correct.
But TA - they ruled that an unvaxxed player can play in their tournament if they had a medical exemptio that was adjudicated as valid by an independant medical panel. What they negligently didn't advise was that their decision had nothing to do with the entry requirements into Australia. They either deliberately did this to keep quiet and hope ND slips through, or they live in their blissfully negligent world.

I don't think they were ignorant. Whilst they may have received letters that said covid wasn't an exemption - exemptions were being handed out for covid. They went with what was actually occurring as it suited their wants, as opposed to going with what the letter said.

 

[NMBB]

No. The cockup was squarely to TA's ignorance, and the Vic Govt to an extent, although all they did was to rule on whether they could enter Victoria. Their decision may still be correct.
But TA - they ruled that an unvaxxed player can play in their tournament if they had a medical exemptio that was adjudicated as valid by an independant medical panel. What they negligently didn't advise was that their decision had nothing to do with the entry requirements into Australia. They either deliberately did this to keep quiet and hope ND slips through, or they live in their blissfully negligent world.

BF (Fed Agency) had minor procedural c*ck up initially (although this is a bit of a nit pick) - TA certainly no idea - Vic govt in TA's lap and happy to embarrass the Feds
Feds should have made it crystal freakin clear they control entry to Australia and all the other "permissions" etc were subsets of that.

 

[Kappa]

Where did my post infer any of the above?

You argued against my post for letting unvaxxed tourists into the country because “the majority of hospitality staff are in isolation”. So then I asked, okay, so when they’re out of isolation, can unvaxxed tourists come? Or are we permanently shutting the borders to them?

 

[Kappa]

It's almost impossible to get travel insurance that will cover you for Covid and very expensive if you can get it. Australian public hospitals will not refuse a tourist treatment if they don't have insurance, so they will get the best of care. The hospital/government may try to recover the money by billing the tourist but I wouldn't think that they would pursue it unless the person has the known means to pay.

What's with the straw man argument about suggesting I'm saying opening the borders is bad for the economy?

The borders are open/opening now but for vaccinated people because they are much less a risk of burdening our health system.

It's easy to come to Australia, just get the jab FFS.

How many tourists are going to get a free hospital stay exactly? I think this is an extremely small number, and completely worth it when u weigh up the economic benefits.

If someone is unemployed and can’t afford a hospital bill then don’t give them a visa anyway.

 

[Gabbo64]

Whether the rules are right or wrong, just or unjust, they are the rules. No compromise. If a compromise is made for the rich and famous, mayhem follows.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Isn’t Travel Insurance mandatory now? With Covid. Airlines insist?
Would that not cover most Hospitalisation costs?

No it is not mandatory. Several months ago you couldn't even get travel insurance for anywhere overseas except New Zealand and I have no idea what the situation is now. Some countries have individually insisted on travel insurance usually with their own company, but even that is being dropped as a requirement. The chances of catching the virus on route are in low percentages but if you are hospitalised and your TI includes covid, generally you have to pay for it yourself then claim it back. Costs in a hospet can be high and include no treatment. As asymptomatic quarantine in a hotel with no treatment is not covered by covid insurance.

 

[slugger01]

I don't think they were ignorant. Whilst they may have received letters that said covid wasn't an exemption - exemptions were being handed out for covid. They went with what was actually occurring as it suited their wants, as opposed to going with what the letter said.

So, deliberately misleading? That's worse.

 

[Maggie5]

You argued against my post for letting unvaxxed tourists into the country because “the majority of hospitality staff are in isolation”. So then I asked, okay, so when they’re out of isolation, can unvaxxed tourists come? Or are we permanently shutting the borders to them?

So you want us to permanently close our borders to unvaccinated people?

This is what I was referring to, I never said that at all, that was your interpretation.

Replying to a post is not necessarily arguing, was merely pointing out what is current news and how businesses are being affected.

Anyway this is the Djokovic thread so I will say I don't have that much sympathy for the unvaxxinated (unless they have a medical condition).

Their choice so they need to own the consequences whether it be travel for pleasure or work and obey and respect the laws of the country they wish to enter.

 

[slugger01]

BF (Fed Agency) had minor procedural c*ck up initially (although this is a bit of a nit pick) - TA certainly no idea - Vic govt in TA's lap and happy to embarrass the Feds
Feds should have made it crystal freakin clear they control entry to Australia and all the other "permissions" etc were subsets of that.

It is crystal clear.. To everybody in the govermnent sector, and everybody in TA (since they deal with this every day).
You can't put brains into monuments!

 

[sr36]

So, deliberately misleading? That's worse.

There's what it says on paper and what actually occurs, often they're the same thing, but if the two are different, what actually occurs is what matters.

 

[Kappa]

This is what I was referring to, I never said that at all, that was your interpretation.

Replying to a post is not necessarily arguing, was merely pointing out what is current news and how businesses are being affected.

Anyway this is the Djokovic thread so I will say I don't have that much sympathy for the unvaxxinated (unless they have a medical condition).

Their choice so they need to own the consequences whether it be travel for pleasure or work and obey and respect the laws of the country they wish to enter.

I never said you said that, that’s why I used the question mark, I was asking if you think that.

Again, allowing unvaxxed into the country is not for their sake, but for the economic benefit tourists provide.

 

[Maggie5]

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens at the French Open, Wimbledon and US open.

For the US must be vaccinated and the other two quarantine amongst requirements, few exemptions.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yep, either is was blissfully unaware, or it didn't want to see the rules. There have been copies of letters published in the media, from the Health Minister to TA, clearly stating that contracting COVID was not a condition that satisfied the medical exemption condition. TA either didn't see this, or they ignored it.
The Panel of the Vic Govt and TA decision was based on the rules of entering Victoria and the rules of playing in the Australian open. They could have rules stating that you can be an assassin, and that condition would get you a no1 ranking (lol). That has nothing to do with the rules of entering Australia, either as a visitor or a ciitizen.
Again, blame the Vic Govt and TA for their ignorance, or dismissive attitude of BF rules. Not the Australian Federal Govt.

The Victorian government got off this rather lightly. Lest we forget.