Now that it's over, let's take a real look at the list.

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Thread starter #1
Season 2005, like 2004, is over in the first week of the finals and that says one thing: We haven't improved. If we did, then we wouldn't have been crapped on by Geelong and knocked out. If we want to be really honest, we were lucky to even make it. It showed character, but was it mis-placed?

If we look at our list, we have some positives and some negatives. But our biggest negative of this year has normally been looked at as our strength, which is the midfield, and our weakness, the backline, has actually stood up this year. Let's take a closer look.

Forward Line

It must be said that, for most of the season, it wasn't too bad. The obvious highlight was Robbo, who bled red and blue all year no matter what. His 70+ goals showed this. Gained respect and, hopefully, AA selection. The other positives were Davey, who backed up last season well, and to an extent Frosty Miller who gives us such direction through half forward. Motlop showed glimpses as did Yze, Green, Bruce etc, particulary early in the season. Holland was ok.

But the problem was Neitz, and keeping him on the field. He's not the same player he once was, and while he still has tremendous influence on the boys, he had a relatively poor season, and it hurt. He's a bit slower, his body can't hold up and he seems to lack confidence. I once thought he might have more time left, but he may only have 1 season left in him. It's a shame, but it's the truth.

So what do we need? A replacement for Neitz. We can't solely rely on Robbo, as we tried to today. He worked hard, but he's not tall enough to provide a target against 3. Dunn and Bate can't do it yet, Smith can't get on the field, so what do we do? Maybe trade for a Whitnall, or trying a Ferguson down there? Miller to FF? It's something we need to think about.

Midfield

This is, believe it not, where my greatest worry lies. While Moloney was fantastic for us (I take my earlier criticism back) and TJ showed some brilliance, it has absolutely no accountablilty and it goes to water far too easily. Bruce was great early, but never returned, Green never mans up and I actually believe poor old Brock went backwards this year. He got injured, but he hasn't found the ball in weeks. Colin showed something before injury, and the rest, well...

We need a real gun player in there. Too many times the midfield gets overrun and the backline takes the blame. That should stop. Our midfield needs to man up and take some accountability when the ball goes the otherway. We have some pace in there, and we have a bit of ball winning ability, but not enough tough nuts. SKILLED tough nuts, that is. Godders, Macca and others don't do enough with it, and Green, Bruce, Yze and others couldn't get a hard ball, or man up, to save themselves.

White struggled, but actually stood up when we needed him to. Hasn't been any easy year with the circle introduced, and he responded better than I thought he would. His influence is down, though.

Yze is another I'm worried about. If he's injured, don't f*cking play him. Stuff the run of games, I'd rather Stynes with the record anyway. He needs to lift big time next year.

But it's the worrying area. We SEEM to look good on paper, then don't man up and run in circles when the game starts. It needs to be addressed if we are to improve.

Backline

An area where I believe we improved. "Massie" Ferguson has tons of courage and long arms, "Hando" Carroll gave us a real close checking, hard at it type who doesn't give you an inch, Nicho was solid and I thought Wheatley gave us something too, especially when kicking out. He's one of the best in the game. Whelan was good too, but can be very loose at the best of times, while Dogga got better at the end of the year, although he's frustrating too.

My only concern is Bizzell, and what we do with him. I'm not worried about Rivers, as he just lost a bit of form and contended with injury. But Bizzell seems to have lost his place. He is almost 30, though, and I think the match committee woke up to the fact that his floating role isn't as damaging as it once was. He's too slow on the lead, and therefore there isn't much for him.

I thought Belly showed a bit, but needs a lot of work. But it's worth putting in, as he did show he can play.

But I think, for the first time in a while, I have some real, genuine confidence in our backline. It's just that the midfield lets too much ball come in. We could have been completely and utterly slaughtered early on today had it not been for our back 6.

Trades/Delistings

These guys are gone.

Heffernan
Godfrey
Williams
Read (sorry, but I think he is.)
Smith*
Armstrong*

* - could be traded or retained.

What about trades?

I think Jamar could come up as a possibility to SA, although I'm not sure how much we could get for him.

We need another tall forward, or a good, hard accountable midfielder (are there any of the market), and parting with a high pick, or a good player (Green, Yze etc.) might be the way to go. I like the look of Polak, although I don't think we could get him, but what about Bartel? He was great today, and he's holding out for $$$ Geelong don't seem to want to give him.

Whitnall is a chance too, and he might be the bigger chance in terms of getting.

But I think we need to be doing some real moves, and some real shake ups to the list. Finals should only be at the very least for this club, we need to improve and take everything to the next level. And to do that, we need a few better players, some improvement and SOME ACCOUNTABILITY!

The trend, in terms of finals, is broken. Now, let's build on that and look to season 2006.

And if you got this far, you obviously have nothing decent to do doing! ;)

CFH.
 

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ExTasDeeMan

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#2
Nice post CBFH - am going to post my thoughts on the Dees and where we are at, but still fuming....

Long live the Dees!!
 
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Thread starter #3
ExTasDeeMan said:
Nice post CBFH - am going to post my thoughts on the Dees and where we are at, but still fuming....

Long live the Dees!!
Looking forward to it.

I'm over fuming, my girlfriend is a Cat fan and a passionate one at that, so I'll be avoiding her like the plauge for as long as I can!
 

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#4
Sylvia and Brock will be good especially Colin, I think he's got the hardness but also the skills. Brock also has this, but I think Sylvia's a more complete player, can kick goals too.

Personally I think we need a real good key defender. I think the middle is fine, although ratsh.it today, i think the young blokes will come good. I would seriously consider giving up Yze or Green. Yze has done great things, but you've got to look forward.

I think Green should move forward permanently, give the young blokes more time in the middle and he's too soft.
 

dees_best

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#5
We really need a Sam Mitchell or Mark Coughlan type in our midfield but it is highly unlikely we'd get either. Salopek may be worth a look.

Up forward we need a big target. I am warming to the idea of chasing after Fev or Tarrant. Tarrant would be a good option IMO and he and Miller would be able to rotate throughout games. If we go for an up and coming forward someone like Ryan Murphy wouldn't be too bad.

Heck, I'd even welcome Big Lance to the club.

I'm not too sure whats the go with Andrew Walker atm but he is mates with a lot of Demons and he'd be another player worth pursuing IMO.

I'm fairly happy with our backline. Considering Rivers and Ferguson could bulk up a bit we seem to have a decent defensive unit. Nicho and Carroll are handy members of our defence. Whelan is our key small defender and one of the best in the comp whilst Brown gives his all each week.

As for trades I wouldn't mind offloading Bell to Port in exchange for Salopek. Although I like Bell, he hasn't overly impressed me.

We should go all out for someone like Taz or Fev IMO, offering Green and potentially our first round pick.

Meh, thinking about how poor some of our so called big names is starting to ruin my mood for tonight.
 

dee_molisher

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#6
All this talk about who is giving it and who isn't really ********s me off. Green should go back to the forward line where his marking, leading and kicking made him valuable.

Quite simply, Neil is a crap coach with zero imagination. Why did we bring in Hefferman? Because danners was too chicken to play a young player. Why do we have players like Chris Johnson and Bate in the reserves when they should be playing seniors. They have to be better than Godfrey, Rigoni, Holland, Hefferman.

Smith can play so play him. Chris Johnson is fast, skilled and an excellent mark and Bate just shows so much class for Sandy, he will play a key role up forward or on the ball in the near future.

Players who should go are: Hefferman, Rigoni, Williams, Bizzell, Holland, Godfrey, Armstrong, Read, Nicholson (too old and not needed), Motlop (Should never been drafted), Hunter.
 

dees_best

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#7
Green won't make it as a forward in our forwardline.

We need a target not a ********ing diver!!!

Green should be traded for something decent while he still has some value.

I really think he's had it far too easy at the club and needs a real kick up the arse.
 

melbournemartin

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#8
could Yze and our first pick be worth someone of the likes of Fevola, Bartel, Tarrant or to a lesser extent, Polak?

i just feel that Bruce and Green still have something left in them but as for Yze, I'm just not sure
 

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#9
Delistings- Williams, Hunter, Ward, Godfrey, Heffernan, Nicholson (He's been good but he's too old)
Smith to get a year to get himself fit and we see what he can do.
Rigoni has been good enough in the last few weeks to stay on for another year.

CFH, that post is spot on. The defense has stood up more this year and I am very puzzled that Rivers wasn't an emergency today over players like Heffernan.
Robbo can't hold down FF. He needs a player like Neitz with him to take pressure off and jeez Yze has been absoloute crap in the second half of this year. He can get fit over the summer, then he better have a good season next year.

IMO the player with the most potential on our list is Col. He's got everything. I was talking to a mate the other day who coached him at Vic Country and he agreed with me. Pace, strength, skills, mongrel, footy brain, you name it he's got it. Can't wait for next year when he gets fully fit and plays a full season.

We rely on our young players a bit too much. It will be good when Brock and Col are starting to hit their straps a bit and get the hard ball but a lot of our players just sit on the outer and let the young players get it for them (i.e many of our games late this year involved Moloney getting the hard ball and directing traffic while Green and co. sat outside the packs waiting.
 

melbournemartin

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#10
will Neitz captain next year?

if he doesn't, has to be given to Robbo or hopefully TJ. Miller, Sylvia, Moloney, Rivers and McLean are the next year but 2 young atm
 
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Thread starter #11
I think the bottom line is that we need to work hard at improving our list, even if it means sacrificing a player or two. It has to be done. We have a good list, but we need to upgrade it. The list is young, so getting some experience on board will help.

But it depends on who is available. I like the idea of trading Bell in a swap for Salopek as it would benefit both teams, and both end up in their home state, although I actually think the club rates Belly quite highly. Possibly as a replacement for Bizzell. I'm not entirely certain, but I think Salopek has also given every indication he wants to leave Port too, so it's something to think about it.

I also agree about Col, and he's the guy we can slowly build a strong, hard midfield around. He, like Brock, Moloney, Rivers, Ferguson, Bell and others, need another pre-season under the belt and they will improve. They have got some experience to build on also, and that's a plus.

I'm actually more annoyed about today after watching the urgency from tonights game, and the fact we had none when it mattered. But I refuse to completely think negatively about it. We need to improve in many areas, and I am keenly waiting to see what we do about it.
 

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Thread starter #12
melbournemartin said:
will Neitz captain next year?

if he doesn't, has to be given to Robbo or hopefully TJ. Miller, Sylvia, Moloney, Rivers and McLean are the next year but 2 young atm
Yes, he will, but I think it will be his last season unless he completely turns his form around.
 

cannons

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#13
after watching Trent Hentchel tonight, I reckon we should go after him. Got a lot of potential. Like the idea of going after Fev too. Do yous reckon Green and a 1st rounder would do it??
Any of you seen Beau Waters? he would be a ********ing awesome player for us. a real hard nut and pretty versatile, been injured this year but will be good for WCE. I would give up Green in a second for him.

Agree about those blokes needing another pre-season, especially Sylvia as he has only had one due to injury. Only really played a half year in 2003.
 

melbournemartin

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#14
could we have a crack at Bartel? loves the hard stuff and gets plenty of the ball. 30 possies today and 11 marks.

Green + 2nd pick - Bartel?
 
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Thread starter #15
melbournemartin said:
could we have a crack at Bartel? loves the hard stuff and gets plenty of the ball. 30 possies today and 11 marks.

Green + 2nd pick - Bartel?
Try Green and a 1st rounder, and even then it wouldn't be enough. Plus Jimmy is holding Geelong at ransom for more $$$, which we probably don't have, although offloading Green would help in that regard.

Nice thought, but highly unlikely.
 

melbournemartin

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#16
well surely Green and our first pick (what is it again?) would be enough?

we can afford to skip this draft because it is said to be weak and we don't have an overly high pick and Dunn and Bate and perhaps Newton are, hopefully, future stars or at the minimum, solid players.

it would be very sad to see Brad Green go though even though it would probably be best for the club. contrary to what some people say, i think he has loads of heart and lots of potential leadership ability but he can't captain unless he learns how to stand up in important games
 

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#17
DON'T PANIC.

We were crap today but I for one still have confidence in this list.

I may set myself up for a bit of heat but a small amount of tweeking and natural development we will push hard next year. Keep in mind West Coast lost two elimination finals in a row, held firm and are now up to their neck in a premiership race.

We still have a young list and I for one will keep the faith, all those calling for wholeale changes should join the board of a bank were there black hearts can be put to good use.
 
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Thread starter #18
tdubfleet said:
DON'T PANIC.

We were crap today but I for one still have confidence in this list.

I may set myself up for a bit of heat but a small amount of tweeking and natural development we will push hard next year. Keep in mind West Coast lost two elimination finals in a row, held firm and are now up to their neck in a premiership race.

We still have a young list and I for one will keep the faith, all those calling for wholeale changes should join the board of a bank were there black hearts can be put to good use.
Would you agree in saying that the list needs a real shake up? Not wholesale changes, but some changes? We do have dead weight that needs to be gotten rid of, and one or two players could be used in gaining in areas of weakness.
 

melbournemartin

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#19
we can't let our obvious weakness go unfilled. guys like Bate, Dunn and Newton won't be regular starters next year and Mclean, Sylvia, Miller, Rivers and Moloney are still young. We need to inject some hardness and accountability.
 
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#20
I think generally we should not hit the panic button too much, it's all well and good to say we need to trade such and such for whoever. But really do we need to trade them. I think our list as a whole has a couple of more years to mature, so we don't need to do anything too drastic.

Too have a great team you have to have a good mix of in and under ball winners with outside classy players. The problem for us is that our classier players (Green, Bruce and Yze) are a several years older and more mature than the younger in and unders (Mclean, Sylvia and Moloney)...and the younger ones are more prone to inconsistency. What we really need is one or two players to top off our team and maybe a couple to improve our depth.

Our main targets should be...
Fevola - Neitz has 1-2 years left, and is struggling to hold his body together, with Fevola there the pressure is off Neitz, and they both will be able to help each other out.
Salopek - I really don't know much about how he plays (inside/outside ???) but he is highly rated and would be a welcome addition to our midfield.
Polak - Highly rated, but underachieving tall back or forward who could develop into a very good player.

One or maybe two of these three will be fantastic, but i can't see us pulling off all three.

List analysis
Forwardline - Not too bad when Neitz is firing, but he was injured far too much this year and there wasn't much back up. Robbo tried his arse off, but he is the 3rd tall not the main target. Holland also tried hard, but just lacks pace and class. Miller will be good, but wasn't on the park for long periods of time. Davey was good in patches, but his finishing at times let him down.
Ideally
HF: Robbo, Miller, Yze
FF: Davey, Fevola, Neitz

Midfield
Generally reasonable, but a bit too inconsistent, and when we were really struggling, no one stepped up. Bruce on fire early, but injury f***ked him. Green had his moments, Moloney/Mclean/Sylvia, were great but inconsistent. Johnstone had a fantastic year top 3 B & F for my liking. The problem with this group was the leaders (Green, Bruce, Yze) didn't step when it was asked of them. I expect better next year.

Backline - Tried hard as always, but lacked the big strong classy defender. Carroll and Nicholson should never, ever play in the same team again. Rivers and Fergy are great but skinny, Whelan and Brown effective but not brillian. Bizzell struggling at the end of the year. Wheatley was just about the best of the lot. Just need a "Mal Michael" top us off.

To conclude, i don't think we need to make drastic trades, but we need to pull off at least one of three mentioned above.
 

melbournemartin

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#21
and if we don't, we may well finish 5-8 again next year and with the talent we have, that shouldn't and isn't good enough.

we need to play hardball for Fevola or Bartel. Fevola would help us more on the scoreboard obviously but only if the ball can get down to him in tight games which our midfield fails to do. That is where Bartel would help enourmously.
 

cannons

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#22
I think fevola would be good. you hear all this stuff about hs attitude but i think he just loses interest due to his team's inability.
Does anyone have thoughts on Hentchel??
 

dee_molisher

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#23
melbournemartin said:
could Yze and our first pick be worth someone of the likes of Fevola, Bartel, Tarrant or to a lesser extent, Polak?

i just feel that Bruce and Green still have something left in them but as for Yze, I'm just not sure
Glad your not our coach. Yze is a required player (Polack lazy and unpredictable) Fevola, lazy and unpredicatable, tarrant, Lazy and unpredictable. What a joke!
 
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#25
smoking said:
Congrats StingaArmstong on excellent analysis. But what future do you see for your WA namestake?
Thanks.

I think Arma will be offered to WCE or Freo, if they don't want him, i suggest keeping him for one more year. A full pre season locked in the weights room (joining Fergy and Rivers) will do him good. He has some talent, but lack of opportunity and strength in contests are his downfall.

I will disappointed if he does go though...if merely for the fact i will have to change my nickname ;)
 
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