NRL and ARU launch womens comps in 2018

[threenewpadlocks]

Think he is very optimistic. At best, 3 or 4 years away from where AFLW was year 1, but AFLW will be a 14 team, truly national comp by then. It will still be a mile behind.

Womens footy 3 to 4 years pre AFLW was stronger than women's RL is now.

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170,000 female participants for footy in 2013. NRL is claiming 190,000 female participants, but that includes touch and tag, and Touch Football claims 600,000 participants and 40% female participation, so the maths doesn't work out there. In terms of participants in tackle rugby league vs women's footy, the VWFL had 34 teams in 2013 (so x 25 = ~850 Victorian adult competition participants) - this contrasts with around 25 adult tackle female RL players in NSW currently, with ~20 players per team is around 500 adult participants in NSW alone.

And this isn't going into the differences in youth development, which the AFL was miles ahead, for example it was as long ago as 2010 that national U/18 championships were formed.

Also worth noting that I've picked possibly the worst possible dates for this comparison, for example, the growth in VWFL teams from 2009 to 2013 (28 to 34) was less than that from 2013 to 2014 (34 to 41), and whether the massive increase from 2013 onward can be put down to either the increased exposure from the inaugural Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs game, or the simple fact that the youth girls programmes instigated a few years earlier were beginning to bear fruit, either way, the NRL has hardly done either to the same extent that the AFL had done - despite the Womens' World Cup, surely a well-promoted State of Origin would do more for marketing and they've got to pump everything in youth development.

 

[jatz14]

170,000 female participants for footy in 2013. NRL is claiming 190,000 female participants, but that includes touch and tag, and Touch Football claims 600,000 participants and 40% participation, so the maths doesn't work out there. In terms of participants in tackle rugby league vs women's footy, the VWFL had 34 teams in 2013 (so x 25 = ~850 Victorian adult competition participants) - this contrasts with around 25 adult tackle female RL players in NSW currently, with ~20 players per team is around 500 adult participants in NSW alone.

And this isn't going into the differences in youth development, which the AFL was miles ahead, for example it was as long ago as 2010 that national U/18 championships were formed.

Also worth noting that I've picked possibly the worst possible dates for this comparison, for example, the growth in VWFL teams from 2009 to 2013 (28 to 34) was less than that from 2013 to 2014 (34 to 41), and whether the massive increase from 2013 onward can be put down to either the increased exposure from the inaugural Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs game, or the simple fact that the youth girls programmes instigated a few years earlier were beginning to bear fruit, either way, the NRL has hardly done either to the same extent that the AFL had done - despite the Womens' World Cup, surely a well-promoted State of Origin would do more for marketing and they've got to pump everything in youth development.

NRL can only put in place girls pathways, and a comp to aspire to, but they cannot make people play.

That the AFL got the growth it did does not mean the NRL will just follow suite. A bit like cricket, runs on the board count for a lot.

From WA it's a bit hard to tell the impact and profile women's RL is having in NSW, but it doesn't seem as much as the AFLW.

Getting the exhibition games on tv, and the league on FTA and pay was huge. This will be a big test for the NRL, wether they can deliver up tv coverage.

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[The_Wookie]

NRL can only put in place girls pathways, and a comp to aspire to, but they cannot make people play.

That the AFL got the growth it did does not mean the NRL will just follow suite. A bit like cricket, runs on the board count for a lot.

If they can convert tag and touch women to NRL - and its not a huge stretch - they'll get skilled players quickly.

Getting the exhibition games on tv, and the league on FTA and pay was huge. This will be a big test for the NRL, wether they can deliver up tv coverage.

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They'll get tv coverage. NRL games rate pretty highly, and at least in the short term, they'll have the same advantage WBBL does - broadcasting games that are double headers with the mens finals. Origins are amongst the highest rating games on Australian TV, Mathildas are rating well, theres every reason womens origin could rate pretty highly too - at least in the North east of the country.

 

[jatz14]

If they can convert tag and touch women to NRL - and its not a huge stretch - they'll get skilled players quickly.




They'll get tv coverage. NRL games rate pretty highly, and at least in the short term, they'll have the same advantage WBBL does - broadcasting games that are double headers with the mens finals. Origins are amongst the highest rating games on Australian TV, Mathildas are rating well, theres every reason womens origin could rate pretty highly too - at least in the North east of the country.

They will get touch players, no doubt, but I have never been sold on the idea of huge numbers of them

International women's RL has been a thing for a few years. Qld women's RL has been growing for a while. I would have guessed local women's RL clubs would have been after good touch players to switch for years.

So why haven't they?

The innaugral comp they talk about seems small, and on at a time it will struggle for space in. What about it will prompt hordes of women to switch from touch to contact now, when that option has been there for years?

The acceleration in contact women's footy preceded massive exposure, and ramped up even from the first demo game. Given past national RL games have already given exposure, I think the current, decent growth rate, is it. I don't think it's got another gear to it.

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[NoobPie]

They will get touch players, no doubt, but I have never been sold on the idea of huge numbers of them

International women's RL has been a thing for a few years. Qld women's RL has been growing for a while. I would have guessed local women's RL clubs would have been after good touch players to switch for years.

So why haven't they?

The innaugral comp they talk about seems small, and on at a time it will struggle for space in. What about it will prompt hordes of women to switch from touch to contact now, when that option has been there for years?

The acceleration in contact women's footy preceded massive exposure, and ramped up even from the first demo game. Given past national RL games have already given exposure, I think the current, decent growth rate, is it. I don't think it's got another gear to it.

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Yeah I suspect the cross over will be very minimal, and perhaps limited to the elite end (which is obviously where it will need to be)

I am suspect as to the ratings and interest this will pull. The world cup final got under 200K.

 

[NoobPie]

Not a great surprise....pretty much a necessity given the NRL's decision

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/13/rugby-australia-announce-womens-competition-2018/

 

[The_Wookie]

only 5 teams...

 

[TWLS]

Not a great surprise....pretty much a necessity given the NRL's decision

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/13/rugby-australia-announce-womens-competition-2018/

Go and check their forums--- Already talking about NRL Womens poaching their players, and also talk/suggestions of both codes swapping players because their seasons will be different.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Super W (Rugby Union) hasn't got off to a great start. Reports online today that the players won't be paid.

 

[The_Wookie]

Super W (Rugby Union) hasn't got off to a great start. Reports online today that the players won't be paid.

Rugby Australia is currently working with the Rugby Union Players’ Association on a new collective bargaining agreement, with at least a preliminary terms sheet expected to be signed off by the December 31 deadline.

Pulver said bringing parity to the Sevens program was a focus of the process.

“In terms of pay equality in women’s sport, priority number one is around the professional programs,” he said.

“We’re actually in negotiations with RUPA (at the moment) and the objective there is to, on the men’s and women’s Sevens side, is to try and make sure we have gender equality from a pay perspective.

“That’s a work in progress and we’d love to think early in the new year we can communicate an outcome from there.

Pulver said the aim was to eventually professionalise both forms of the game.

"The women’s XVs game is still an amateur game, so the girls who participate in this (Super W) at this stage won’t be paid," he said.

"We’re really sensitive about a number of conditions you can put in place to really try and optimize the number of women who can participate in the competition.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/12/14/womens-rugby-pay-sevens-xvs

 

[jatz14]

Rugby Australia is currently working with the Rugby Union Players’ Association on a new collective bargaining agreement, with at least a preliminary terms sheet expected to be signed off by the December 31 deadline.

Pulver said bringing parity to the Sevens program was a focus of the process.

“In terms of pay equality in women’s sport, priority number one is around the professional programs,” he said.

“We’re actually in negotiations with RUPA (at the moment) and the objective there is to, on the men’s and women’s Sevens side, is to try and make sure we have gender equality from a pay perspective.

“That’s a work in progress and we’d love to think early in the new year we can communicate an outcome from there.

Pulver said the aim was to eventually professionalise both forms of the game.

"The women’s XVs game is still an amateur game, so the girls who participate in this (Super W) at this stage won’t be paid," he said.

"We’re really sensitive about a number of conditions you can put in place to really try and optimize the number of women who can participate in the competition.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/12/14/womens-rugby-pay-sevens-xvs

Would it be overly cynical to suggest paying the 7s would be the cheaper way to look proactive?

 

[Gigantor]

What a strange thread this ended up being, with a couple of posters claiming womens league will end up being bigger than womens footy - really?

First reaction would have to be - no chance in hell that it will get remotely close, unless we have all understated the international appeal for it

Then claim gets softened to just NSW/Qld, maybe, except we know how strong womens footy is going in SE Qld, and as for NSW, well, even a strong league are like Newcastle has 12 womens teams - which strikes me as a pretty healthy number for a non-AFL region.

 

[BringBackTorps]

What a strange thread this ended up being, with a couple of posters claiming womens league will end up being bigger than womens footy - really?
First reaction would have to be - no chance in hell that it will get remotely close, unless we have all understated the international appeal for it Then claim gets softened to just NSW/Qld, maybe, except we know how strong womens footy is going in SE Qld, and as for NSW [RU is growing ?] well, even a strong league are like Newcastle has 12 womens teams - which strikes me as a pretty healthy number for a non-AFL region.

2017 has been a shocking year for RU, with terrible Super Rugby crowds & ratings, Wallabies being defeated by Scotland, the Western Force being disbanded from Super Rugby in 2018 etc. However, at GR, RU -or at least a non-contact variant- is starting to make some very impressive progress in NSW.

The ARU is rolling out into NSW primary schools its " Game On" non-contact RU skills' program for U6 - U12 kids, & is having success. Formerly, RU was rated at no.28 out of 32 sports that are played in schools. It is now rated at no.10, with 56,000 kids in the Game On program in only 2 years -&, importantly, 46% of these are female. Due to its success, particularly in Govt.schools, it almost certainly will be expanded.

Female, fast flowing & exciting contact RU 7's is also growing. I doubt female contact RU XV's, with scrums/mauls/constant tackling etc. will ever attain high popularity.

It will be interesting to see if the Game On roll-out will add significantly to contact RU regd. nos. The other massive (600,000+) Touch/Tag non-contact variants have not helped in the long term decline of male contact RU & RL regd.nos.

The Comments section in this link below is also quite interesting about the fortunes of RU in Sydney.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-new/rugby-rises-from-bottom-of-the-pack-in-school-sports-20171211-h02w96.html

 

[jatz14]

2017 has been a shocking year for RU, with terrible Super Rugby crowds & ratings, Wallabies being defeated by Scotland, the Western Force being disbanded from Super Rugby in 2018 etc. However, at GR, RU -or at least a non-contact variant- is starting to make some very impressive progress in NSW.

The ARU is rolling out into NSW primary schools its " Game On" non-contact RU skills' program for U6 - U12 kids, & is having success. Formerly, RU was rated at no.28 out of 32 sports that are played in schools. It is now rated at no.10, with 56,000 kids in the Game On program in only 2 years -&, importantly, 46% of these are female. Due to its success, particularly in Govt.schools, it almost certainly will be expanded.

Female, fast flowing & exciting RU 7's is also growing. I doubt female contact RU XV's, with scrums/mauls/constant tackling etc. will ever attain high popularity.

It will be interesting to see if the Game On roll-out will add significantly to contact RU regd. nos. The other massive (600,000+) Touch/Tag non-contact variants have not helped in the long term decline of contact RU &RL regd.nos.

The Comments section in this link below is also quite interesting about the fortunes of RU in Sydney.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-new/rugby-rises-from-bottom-of-the-pack-in-school-sports-20171211-h02w96.html

School sport is the low hanging fruit of participation. It is most effective where students have local teams they can play for, friends who play and talk up the sport, and family participation, or at least engagement and awareness of the sport.

Where this isn't true, it is much less effective, look at AFL in NZ, school participation is good, the 99% of them never play again.

I remember RU from school, and la Crosse, and ultimate frisbee, none of them took of locally.

I would put RU in the middle, awareness, but how many junior's and clubs around those schools?

The cruel irony is, growing through school programs works for those sports already big, with the junior infrastructure in place. Kid walks out of school interested in your sport, you need to have a team ready for them now. If not 6 months down the track, they are playing something else.

This is what makes what AFL did in QLD remarkable, it bucked that trend in its growth rates, but I think that is because it hit a sweet spot (not necessarily by design). Society was at a place girls wanted more from sport than soccer and netball, footy gave it in spades. Great word of mouth from players, all coinciding with the AFL pushing with school programs and junior programs.

It isn't easily repeatable. NRL is best placed to do it, it's happening in cricket, not sure about RU.

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[Rob]

This is what makes what AFL did in QLD remarkable, it bucked that trend in its growth rates, but I think that is because it hit a sweet spot (not necessarily by design). Society was at a place girls wanted more from sport than soccer and netball, footy gave it in spades. Great word of mouth from players, all coinciding with the AFL pushing with school programs and junior programs.

It isn't easily repeatable. NRL is best placed to do it, it's happening in cricket, not sure about RU.

The AFL already had decent junior pathways there in Queensland and have had them for decades. You're spot on that kids need somewhere to play straight away if you want to maintain that interest - you need to have the clubs already there. That existed in Queensland. Sydney probably not so much.
Rugby League is going to struggle outside it's heartland because they don't have that - in Perth there are virtually no clubs, there's about half a dozen junior clubs in the entire city, so most people live miles from one. Rugby union's coverage is a lot better, especially in the western suburbs. But that's also footy heartland in Perth as well, so for every junior rugby club there's about 10 footy clubs and probably 3 or 4 soccer clubs. But at least there's a club within 10 or 15 minutes drive at most so it's a bit more accessible. So if they have an interest in playing rugby they can be directed to a relatively close by club, whereas League wouldn't have that in 80% of the city. But Union doesn't have the money for junior development whereas league does.

 

[The_Wookie]

We originally put this posting in the wrong thread.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/12/20/results-nsw-rugby-participation-sees-positive-growth-2017/

Doesnt really belong here either.