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Review Observations

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1) For a team stacked with small forwards (Wona, Maric, Bennell and Jetta) we provided very little forward pressure on Saturday.

2) Dunn provides almost nothing at the moment.

3) Sylvia busts his gut every week. He could barely move on Saturday. People saying he doesn't care sometimes are being naive.

4) We have a tendancy for dud players to dominate against us. 6 goals to Aaron Edwards? lol.....
 

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1)Jones is a genuine twit. Stop Tweeting FFS! Your timing was as good as as your game changing pass over Davey's head.

He's a leader? What a joke!

Less computer Jones and more working on your ordinary skills.

2) Sylvia is overrated, he should be an elite player but isn't.

3) We stuffed up in the draft by picking far too many talls. It's a midfielder's game.
 
THE STING2 said:
1)Jones is a genuine twit. Stop Tweeting FFS! Your timing was as good as as your game changing pass over Davey's head.

He's a leader? What a joke!

Less computer Jones and more working on your ordinary skills.

2) Sylvia is overrated, he should be an elite player but isn't.

3) We stuffed up in the draft by picking far too many talls. It's a midfielder's game.
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While I'm not Jones' biggest fan I can't help but admit that his last month of footy has been terrific. Yeah he turns it over and tries to do too much but at least he looks like he is having a dip. Can't say the same for some.

Sylvia is a gun, plain and simple. To call him overrated is naive.

Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Tapscott, Grimes, Blease.... the list goes on. Not enough for you?
 
Some very reactionary comments on here, I know rage from losing can distort your view sometimes but the some people views like on following just don't make sense. That's not just in this thread but many.

Beamer will definitely have to change his game slightly without Jamar, but he does much more than have the ball hit down his throat by the Russian. He's been our best player year to date & you can excuse a bad game from him when he copped a hard tagging rotation from Swallow & Zeibell, Swallow sacrificed his game to shut down Moloney & that hurt us much more than them. Like Davey in early rounds Beamer got zero help from his team mates to break the tag. If he's going to be a leader for us he needs to learn to break a tag, but he's not going to rip every game open for us

I am not a huge fan of Jones & many times I've been the first to jump on his back when he does something poorly (including a game where I was giving him a spray & his family were sitting in front of me:o). But he has stepped up in the last few weeks & been one of our only consistent triers throughout the wins & losses. You may not love players, but give them a break when they are delivering, especially when so many others aren't

Sylvia is another in the same boat. People like him more, but expect him to break every game apart, Judd & Ablett don't even do that. He's trying his ass off. In the last 4 weeks, 2 huge wins & 2 bad losses, he's had 7, 7, 9 & 8 tackles, 9, 6, 6, & 5 inside 50s. On the weekend he also went 3rd man up alot & got 5 hitouts, not bad for a guy who's 6'2. If we were winning the games we should, he would be playing better & everyone would start calling him great player that he is.

Also agree with the North fan, yes it took an opposition supporter to bring it up, that Tapscot didnt have a bad game. He was clearly told to stop Thomas & that meant he didn't get as many touches or provide the same run, but he did the job & kept Thomas to 6 touches & no goals. Hard to fault that
 
Chip_ said:
Sylvia is another in the same boat. People like him more, but expect him to break every game apart, Judd & Ablett don't even do that. He's trying his ass off. In the last 4 weeks, 2 huge wins & 2 bad losses, he's had 7, 7, 9 & 8 tackles, 9, 6, 6, & 5 inside 50s. On the weekend he also went 3rd man up alot & got 5 hitouts, not bad for a guy who's 6'2. If we were winning the games we should, he would be playing better & everyone would start calling him great player that he is.

Also agree with the North fan, yes it took an opposition supporter to bring it up, that Tapscot didnt have a bad game. He was clearly told to stop Thomas & that meant he didn't get as many touches or provide the same run, but he did the job & kept Thomas to 6 touches & no goals. Hard to fault that
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I would cop Sylvia performances if he was getting seriously tagged every week like Moloney but he isn't and he's not making much of a difference out there like he was last year. Is having a gun player in our team too much to ask for?

On Tapscott I think you will find that only 1 person said that. With the exception of 1 terrible handball that wasn't as game changing as Jones's kick he was good. I'm happy with him in the backline, but I would like to see him like everybody else who isn't a key position player have a bit more time in the middle.
 
CowboyFromHell said:
Sylvia is a gun, plain and simple. To call him overrated is naive.

Scully, Trengove, McKenzie, Gysberts, Tapscott, Grimes, Blease.... the list goes on. Not enough for you?
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Sylvia is not a gun, you have to perform consistantly for that tag to be thrown around.

No, It's not enough, most of them didn't even play on the weekend. Until we can compete with the likes of the Cats and Pies in the midfield and until we get depth like they have I won't be satisified and if we eventually have too many midfielders we can always trade them like Geelong have done.
 
If you've watched our games this year, Sylvia consistently sticks his neck up for the team, and for most of the year has had very little support, yet does as well as he can. When the rest of the team busts a gut as hard as he does, we'll see the results.
 
Gazza_11 said:
If you've watched our games this year, Sylvia consistently sticks his neck up for the team, and for most of the year has had very little support, yet does as well as he can. When the rest of the team busts a gut as hard as he does, we'll see the results.
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yeah but what i wanna see from him... is not 2 goals in 2 mins against a team who were 30 points in front of (adelaide) but start kicking big goals when teams are coming at us... ala 2nd or 3rd qtr goals against nth

he only seems to have big games when the rest of the team is dominant ...look at ablett..41 disp and 4 gls in a losing side... hes a gun... sylvia aint up to that standard by a mile yet he could be if he put it all together
 

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THE STING2 said:
Sylvia is not a gun, you have to perform consistantly for that tag to be thrown around.

No, It's not enough, most of them didn't even play on the weekend. Until we can compete with the likes of the Cats and Pies in the midfield and until we get depth like they have I won't be satisified and if we eventually have too many midfielders we can always trade them like Geelong have done.
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So the fact that many of them didn't play on the weekend is proof we took too many talls? How did you work that out?

We still had Sylvia, Moloney, Jones, Bail, Gysberts, Davey and others rotating through the middle with Scull, Trengove, McKenzie etc still to return.

Sylvia is a gun. His last year and a bit has proven that. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
 
melbournemartin said:
1) For a team stacked with small forwards (Wona, Maric, Bennell and Jetta) we provided very little forward pressure on Saturday.
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This should be their bread and butter. But none of them offer much in the way of forward pressure (although to be fair to Jetta, he is more of a midfielder and did actually lay 12 tackles on the weekend). But in general, these players don't seem like they have an appetite for the defensive stuff. You can throw Jurrah into the mix as well, but he makes up for it in awesomeness with the ball. It's funny given Davey was one of the first small forwards to put an emphasis on forward pressure back in 2004, but he's hardly the modern role poster boy either.
 
As for Sylvia, the guy is incredibly talented but you can't expect him to be Judd or Ablett like. Those players are superstars of the game, and they don't come around often. We shouldn't expect him to dominate games like they do. Although we could definately use a game-breaker in the side, I am happy to see Sylvia knuckling down and doing the hard stuff rather than the flashy stuff more often.
 
CowboyFromHell said:
So the fact that many of them didn't play on the weekend is proof we took too many talls? How did you work that out?

We still had Sylvia, Moloney, Jones, Bail, Gysberts, Davey and others rotating through the middle
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Who? You named 6 and 1 got injured. Nowhere near enough, the best team's have 10 or more.

Look at our tall department. Backs are Rivers, Frawley and Garland who won't get dropped only injury will force them out and then you have Warnock and MacDonlad as replacements, Davis and McDonald will need the entire backline to go down to get a look in.

Forwards are Watts and Jurrah who won't get dropped. We have one spot open because Dunn isn't doing his job properly and Bate and Newton are the replacements.

We basically picked up 4 players for 1 spot, while we have holes everywhere in the midfield. We don't have anywhere near enough runners and no one to help out Moloney, hopefully players like Blease, Nicholson and Evans can make a big difference but we won't know until they actually play.

If it was me I would have about 14 players running through the midfield, if your not a key position you must be able to run through the midfield or you don't get a game and the second ruckman must know how to kick goals or they are not worth anything really, until Martin can add this to his game he will awalys be just another Paul Johnson.
 
nickgrant69 said:
yeah but what i wanna see from him... is not 2 goals in 2 mins against a team who were 30 points in front of (adelaide) but start kicking big goals when teams are coming at us... ala 2nd or 3rd qtr goals against nth

he only seems to have big games when the rest of the team is dominant ...look at ablett..41 disp and 4 gls in a losing side... hes a gun... sylvia aint up to that standard by a mile yet he could be if he put it all together
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Apart from comparing him to Ablett I agree with it all. He's not hurting teams like he should. He has a lot more talent than Moloney but he's not the first one tagged, why? He was last year.

Elite players are the one's looking at All Australian, Sylvia is nowhere near it only Moloney and Jamar would be consided ATS.

Ablett and Judd are above elite, you can only compare them to one another really.

At the start of the year people were comparing him to Watson and at the time there was no difference between them if anything Sylvia was slightly in front, not anymore Watson is a million times better than him now and that's where I expect Sylvia to be at Watson's level of excellence and he won't do it until he breaks games open consistantly.

He had a little burst against Gold Coast and Adelaide other than that he has done very little, he is easily our most important player and he's not playing like it.
 
THE STING2 said:
I would cop Sylvia performances if he was getting seriously tagged every week like Moloney but he isn't and he's not making much of a difference out there like he was last year. Is having a gun player in our team too much to ask for?
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Having a gun player isn't too much to ask for, but why are you demanding that it be Sylvia? I wouldn't class him elite (I hate the term anyway, total wank) but he's very close. Moloney's form has been "elite", as has Jamar's, there's 2 for you, doesn't make the team play better because a few guys play great, you need to gel as a unit, worry more about that & the under performing guys.

Many players that get called elite only get there because of the support around them, watch Sylvia's rating go up as we become a better side.

THE STING2 said:
At the start of the year people were comparing him to Watson and at the time there was no difference between them if anything Sylvia was slightly in front, not anymore Watson is a million times better than him now and that's where I expect Sylvia to be at Watson's level of excellence and he won't do it until he breaks games open consistantly.
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Who compared Sylvia & Watson? Never heard the comparison & it's horrible, they play nothing alike. Watson was ahead last year & has gone further ahead, as his team has improved around him!!! See there that pops up again.

THE STING2 said:
He had a little burst against Gold Coast and Adelaide other than that he has done very little, he is easily our most important player and he's not playing like it.
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Very little? Do you even watch the games? One of our biggest problems I'm sure any fan would admit is low inside 50 entries, in our 3 losses he has had the following: Haw - 8 or 22.9%, WC 6 or 16.7% & NM - 5 or 10.4%. Or let me make it simpler for you, that's an average of 16.7% in our losses, or 1 in 6 inside 50s in the games we've lost.

I know stats can sometimes be misleading, but imagine losing a 6th of our horribly low inside 50 count in those 3 smashings? That's what Col has provided for us & without him we'd have looked a lot worse this year, hardly what I'd call "doing very little"
 

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THE STING2 said:
Who? You named 6 and 1 got injured. Nowhere near enough, the best team's have 10 or more.

Look at our tall department. Backs are Rivers, Frawley and Garland who won't get dropped only injury will force them out and then you have Warnock and MacDonlad as replacements, Davis and McDonald will need the entire backline to go down to get a look in.

Forwards are Watts and Jurrah who won't get dropped. We have one spot open because Dunn isn't doing his job properly and Bate and Newton are the replacements.

We basically picked up 4 players for 1 spot, while we have holes everywhere in the midfield. We don't have anywhere near enough runners and no one to help out Moloney, hopefully players like Blease, Nicholson and Evans can make a big difference but we won't know until they actually play.

If it was me I would have about 14 players running through the midfield, if your not a key position you must be able to run through the midfield or you don't get a game and the second ruckman must know how to kick goals or they are not worth anything really, until Martin can add this to his game he will awalys be just another Paul Johnson.
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Okay let's list our midfielders, current and in the future. One or two may be a stretch as they will either not make it or stay across half back or half forward but let's go with potential.

Green, Moloney, Sylvia, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Gysberts, Grimes, Tapscott, Bail, Morton, Blease, Jetta, Maric, McKenzie, Jones. (Nicholson and Evans but not including until on the senior list.

I may have forgotten a few but that's 16 right there. Like I said some like Jetta and Maric may not end up on there but they have the potential to do so and have shown it at different stages. IMO that's more than enough and in a year and half we'll have Jack Viney on that list also.

To say Davis and McDonald will only end up as backmen is wrong. Garland was drafted as a forward and ended up down back, for one. Who's to say McDonald won't end up as a forward? Heck, Lucas Cook could end up as a back. Talls ALWAYS take longer and they generally don't reach their potential as often as mids so it's always wise to have plenty on the list.

IMO Martin is already better than Johnson and has shown that this year. His skills may need some work but gee he has a crack. Great athlete and he can go all day. I like the boy.
 
Chip_ said:
Who compared Sylvia & Watson? Never heard the comparison & it's horrible, they play nothing alike. Watson was ahead last year & has gone further ahead, as his team has improved around him!!! See there that pops up again.



Very little? Do you even watch the games? One of our biggest problems I'm sure any fan would admit is low inside 50 entries, in our 3 losses he has had the following: Haw - 8 or 22.9%, WC 6 or 16.7% & NM - 5 or 10.4%. Or let me make it simpler for you, that's an average of 16.7% in our losses, or 1 in 6 inside 50s in the games we've lost.

I know stats can sometimes be misleading, but imagine losing a 6th of our horribly low inside 50 count in those 3 smashings? That's what Col has provided for us & without him we'd have looked a lot worse this year, hardly what I'd call "doing very little"
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Did you read the player review? You can pull all the stats out if you like, but the fact is we have only had 2 players that have improved this year and he's not one of them. He isn't up to the standard he set last year, he wouldn't have even got close to a BOG performance yet.

On Watson it was compared on form, last year he wasn't hurting teams enough while Sylvia tore some teams to shreds. The opposite has happened this year.

I have never said that he has been bad I just think he should be doing a lot more like most of the side, he definately hasn't been starring like some people have said.
 
i think this is still an observation thread so ill make one

i think dean bailey misses a trick at the centre bounce.. it might be a learning curve, but at one stage when north had a run on our centre bounce line up read- newton, bail, gysberts, bartram

im all for that when were going well . but surely for the sake of the 4 points when things arent going well you would set up with your biggest bodies in the middle to desperately win the next clearance
etc- Martin, moloney, sylvia, tapscott/trengrove
 
I think we have had a few more than two player improving

Trengove, Tapscott, Watts, Martin, Bail, Jurrah, Moloney to name a few

also Sylvia leads the club for tackles, goal assists, inside 50's, to few in contested possession, takes a good number of contested marks for a midfielder as well

when our midfield as a whole becomes more consistent Sylvia will blossom
 
ThePuppetMaster said:
I think we have had a few more than two player improving

Trengove, Tapscott, Watts, Martin, Bail, Jurrah, Moloney to name a few


when our midfield as a whole becomes more consistent Sylvia will blossom
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Trengove & Jurrah maybe, they were pretty good last year, Tapscott's in his first year, definate question marks on Watts and Martin with Martin being dropped and Watts being used as a sub.

I'd agree with Bail and Moloney was 1 of the 2 I was referring to (along with Jamar), still nowhere near enough improvement for my liking.

I think it goes both ways with Sylvia and our midfield.
 

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