# of picks Vs # of list spots open

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Apr 12, 2012
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Not 100% sure but i thought this year you could only take the number of picks into the draft that you have player spots on your main list?

GWS have 11 picks in the 1st 4 rounds, surely they don't have 11 spots on their list?
And the rules are bent for any future picks traded last year as it was under different rules.
 

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Not 100% sure but i thought this year you could only take the number of picks into the draft that you have player spots on your main list?

GWS have 11 picks in the 1st 4 rounds, surely they don't have 11 spots on their list?

GWS have 7 senior and 2 rookie spots, I believe.

It depends how you count them at this point in time. GWS have 29 contracted players and 4 uncontracted players. That gives them up to 11 list spots.

Counting the maximum is the only way you can count them at the moment IMO since while anyone could be signing DFAs or re-signing out of contract player and reduce their list spots in the coming weeks, it's very unlikely anyone will be delisting contracted players and increase those available spots (with the possible exception of potential demotions to rookie lists).
 
Apr 1, 2008
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It depends how you count them at this point in time. GWS have 29 contracted players and 4 uncontracted players. That gives them up to 11 list spots.

Counting the maximum is the only way you can count them at the moment IMO since while anyone could be signing DFAs or re-signing out of contract player and reduce their list spots in the coming weeks, it's very unlikely anyone will be delisting contracted players and increase those available spots (with the possible exception of potential demotions to rookie lists).
If GWS want to use all eleven picks for points, would they need to formally de-list (be it permanently or with a commitment to re-draft) those four uncontracted players before the draft?
 
If GWS want to use all eleven picks for points, would they need to formally de-list (be it permanently or with a commitment to re-draft) those four uncontracted players before the draft?

Yes, that's my understanding. You only have the draft picks corresponding to the list spots you have available at the list lodgement prior to the draft. You can include uncontracted players on that list (though it's rare) but then you will have correspondingly fewer picks in the draft.
 
So Patful is still on the list though retired?

why is that?

He triggered an automatic extension for 2017 but then chose to retire. As a result the Giants would have to include his retirement payout in either 2016 or 2017. Presumably they couldn't fit it under the cap in 2016 as would be the #1 option given there's limited use for leftover cap space.

Once it had to be 2017, it makes sense from a cap management POV to move him on to the rookie list rather than pay him out directly as it saves 50% (IIRC) on the cap.
 
So GWS will be delisting a number of players that they will then take at the end of the ND?

A lot of maybes there.

They might choose to take less picks/points in the 55-60 range.
They might delist players without any intent to pick them up.
They might delist players with the intent to pick them up.

I wonder if any will be picked up by other clubs? I wonder who they may be.

The four in question are Dawson Simpson, Tom Downie, Jake Barrett and Tim Mohr. If GWS does delist them, they can just sign as a DFA with any club. No need for them to go through the draft unless they're heading back to GWS, AFAIK.
 

coniglio_number1

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The four in question are Dawson Simpson, Tom Downie, Jake Barrett and Tim Mohr. If GWS does delist them, they can just sign as a DFA with any club. No need for them to go through the draft unless they're heading back to GWS, AFAIK.
Not exactly hot property names but I could see the club moving mohr to the rookie list. Downie is worth keeping over Simpson and Barrett seems to have a few options open to him as he toured a couple of other clubs
 
Aug 22, 2009
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So it's 29 signed. And those four unsigned taking it to 33.

And they have 11 picks 60 and under.

So if they signed those 4 for example, they could use 7 "good" picks to pick up the 5-7 list spots they need to fill (assuming they can do 38-40, which hasn't been confirmed but is probably right). They could also use picks at the very end of the draft if they have used their 7 "good" picks and haven't met their minimum list requirements.

If they signed none of them then they can use 11 "good" picks to pick up the 9-11 list spots they have to fill. Again using back of draft picks if they run out of "good" picks.

dlanod is this correct?
 

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So it's 29 signed. And those four unsigned taking it to 33.

And they have 11 picks 60 and under.

So if they signed those 4 for example, they could use 7 "good" picks to pick up the 5-7 list spots they need to fill (assuming they can do 38-40, which hasn't been confirmed but is probably right). They could also use picks at the very end of the draft if they have used their 7 "good" picks and haven't met their minimum list requirements.

If they signed none of them then they can use 11 "good" picks to pick up the 9-11 list spots they have to fill. Again using back of draft picks if they run out of "good" picks.

dlanod is this correct?

That is my understanding. They also have the usual options of passing for the PSD or further DFAs, etc, same as anyone else.

I think the "future trade" grandfathering may come into play with pick 58 since the Dogs traded it to Carlton last year, but that would only matter if GWS sign exactly three players and it gives them pick 58 and only that pick potentially coming live once they've used all their picks to match an academy bid. It's enough of an edge case that I'm not losing sleep over it. :p
 
Aug 22, 2009
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That is my understanding. They also have the usual options of passing for the PSD or further DFAs, etc, same as anyone else.

I think the "future trade" grandfathering may come into play with pick 58 since the Dogs traded it to Carlton last year, but that would only matter if GWS sign exactly three players and it gives them pick 58 and only that pick potentially coming live once they've used all their picks to match an academy bid. It's enough of an edge case that I'm not losing sleep over it. :p

What is the source of the grandfathering policy?
 
Jul 13, 2015
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He triggered an automatic extension for 2017 but then chose to retire. As a result the Giants would have to include his retirement payout in either 2016 or 2017. Presumably they couldn't fit it under the cap in 2016 as would be the #1 option given there's limited use for leftover cap space.

Once it had to be 2017, it makes sense from a cap management POV to move him on to the rookie list rather than pay him out directly as it saves 50% (IIRC) on the cap.

So if you quit with a year left on your contract you still get paid? Or the club still has to have the equivalent count towards the cap even though they arent actually handing over the money?
 
So if you quit with a year left on your contract you still get paid? Or the club still has to have the equivalent count towards the cap even though they arent actually handing over the money?

If you retire due to an injury you get paid out 100% of your remaining contract. Nick Stevens and Michael Voss were both notable examples of this, the former because Carlton petitioned the AFL to include his payout into spare space in their injury cap and the latter because Brisbane had to retain Voss on their list for a year without playing because they couldn't afford to pay out his $1.2m remaining salary under any cap.

If it's not due to an injury, there aren't hard and fast rules as far as I can find. Payout can be negotiated but in general most clubs seem to value employee harmony so pay out 100% as well, depending on how many years they have remaining. Mal Michael's was negotiated lower when he retired from Brisbane IIRC. GWS is paying out 100% of Patfull's remaining salary, so there's only a rookie spot lost by keeping him on the list.
 
If it's not due to an injury, there aren't hard and fast rules as far as I can find. Payout can be negotiated

Don't the entirety of FA and/or RFA contracts need to be paid out? I doubt the AFL has put a different rule in place for the Swans regarding Franklin to the rest of the free agents signed. (Though I would not put it past the AFL)
 

Established1870

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Barrett seems to have a few options open to him as he toured a couple of other clubs

Rumour is he had a medical at Port so if you are going to delist him I see him having at least one potential home. Looking back, if you did, it would explain our lack of trading because then we'd be able to get him for free.
 
Don't the entirety of FA and/or RFA contracts need to be paid out? I doubt the AFL has put a different rule in place for the Swans regarding Franklin to the rest of the free agents signed. (Though I would not put it past the AFL)
I wouldn't speculate on what dicking around the AFL might have done to Sydney as opposed to everyone else. :p
 
May 5, 2006
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I wish the AFL would just * the stupid points thing off.

Sydney took Mills at "pick 3" last year with 3 picks in the 30s and pick 43. Then they took two more players to go with trading in Talia. 6 draft picks out, 3 players in.

What would happen this year if some kid was bid on with pick 30 odd? They give up 46 and 49 to match the points but give up 2 picks for one list spot. Do they have to have another pick in a later round?

What happens if there is another Mills that everyone gets excited about, Sydney stockpile 3 or 4 picks expecting an early bid then the kid does his knee walking his dog and no one bids?
 
What would happen this year if some kid was bid on with pick 30 odd? They give up 46 and 49 to match the points but give up 2 picks for one list spot. Do they have to have another pick in a later round?

Yes - they'd end up with pick 30 odd and the last pick of the draft.

What happens if there is another Mills that everyone gets excited about, Sydney stockpile 3 or 4 picks expecting an early bid then the kid does his knee walking his dog and no one bids?

In that case, Sydney probably takes three of their four and then determines whether to take the kid with the fourth because they won't have list spots to take him after that, or leave him to the rest of the comp. It seems implausible that a kid would go from top 3 to not bid on at all though - ask Jake Lever or Michael Close or any of the other kids that slid but still got drafted due to injury.
 

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