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mikey127

Premiership Player
Feb 4, 2011
4,573
3,560
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Brisbane Lions
Not really enjoying the game no but you seem to think saying gay is a sin isnt hate speech so you wanna throw your lot in there knock yourself out.

As has been pointed out it’s more an srp thread and frankly I cbd with bigots so carry on.
For the record if I could be convinced that Jesus teachers homosexuality is ok I would change my mind.

All I'm doing is going by what my lord and saviour teaches me.
 

phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
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For the record if I could be convinced that Jesus teachers homosexuality is ok I would change my mind.

All I'm doing is going by what my lord and saviour teaches me.
It’s not on me or anyone else to convince you. You find any record that proves he had an opinion of it, you’re taking everyone else word on what he might have said about it, if he even existed. You’ve made your decision and it’s homophobic. I’ll leave there cause I can’t respect the wishes of the boards mod if i continue and I respect Aucklander
 

mikey127

Premiership Player
Feb 4, 2011
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3,560
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It’s not on me or anyone else to convince you. You find any record that proves he had an opinion of it, you’re taking everyone else word on what he might have said about it, if he even existed. You’ve made your decision and it’s homophobic. I’ll leave there cause I can’t respect the wishes of the boards mod if i continue and I respect Aucklander
The first part I agree with you on that its highly unlikely someone in here would convince me. Sitting down with someone abd looking through his teachings would.

My Gay friends tell me I'm NOT homophobic so at peace with that.

I'm also happy to leave it here.
 

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phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
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The first part I agree with you on that its highly unlikely someone in here would convince me. Sitting down with someone abd looking through his teachings would.

My Gay friends tell me I'm NOT homophobic so at peace with that.

I'm also happy to leave it here.
It’s not highly unlikely, I said it earlier you can’t argue faith with facts because you won’t listen to facts.

You’ve had a bunch of people ask you directly where Jesus said it’s a sin, you’ve also had a bunch of people point out the hypocrisy of your picking which bits of the Bible you follow, you ignored them.

Your bigotry is a choice just as your faith is. Your gay friends might not say your homophobic but you oppose the gay pride symbol, id assume you oppose gay marriage and equality in the broader sense? That is the very definition of homophobic and discriminatory. You do you, just stop kidding yourself and pretending you’d love to have a beer and explain why being gay is wrong.
 

Fabab

Premiership Player
May 2, 2018
3,337
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AFL Club
Carlton
Go nuts, dm me if you like. Fwiw I didn’t label you anything you defended a bloke who said being gay was a sin, that’s homophobic, next time you wanna wade into a discussion try reading the whole thing first.
You called me a bigot ,i voted for gay marriage .
Thank you yet again for showing yourself up for the fool your are.
 

phantom13

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Sep 12, 2007
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I cbd with bigots so carry on.
You called me a bigot ,i voted for gay marriage .
Thank you yet again for showing yourself up for the fool your are.

Saying I can’t be bothered with bigots is not me calling you a bigot.

You’re defending and claiming victim status for a religious zealot trying to say that homosexuality is a sin, now that’s not quite bigot status in my opinion but it’s certainly not ally status regardless of how you voted.

So, if you’d like to clarify, is his opinion of “homosexuality is a sin” which was very clearly articulated not blatant homophobia and hate speech?

Cause if it is and you wanna claim he’s the one being bullied then you’ve made your choice and it’s not the one you should be making in 2022
 

Fabab

Premiership Player
May 2, 2018
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Saying I can’t be bothered with bigots is not me calling you a bigot.

You’re defending and claiming victim status for a religious zealot trying to say that homosexuality is a sin, now that’s not quite bigot status in my opinion but it’s certainly not ally status regardless of how you voted.

So, if you’d like to clarify, is his opinion of “homosexuality is a sin” which was very clearly articulated not blatant homophobia and hate speech?

Cause if it is and you wanna claim he’s the one being bullied then you’ve made your choice and it’s not the one you should be making in 2022
Its his opinion,not mine but who do you think you are telling me what choices i should be making in 2022?
I am a live and let live person and not gonna go down the track of how many gay friends i have ,keep preaching to your masses.
 

phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
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Its his opinion,not mine but who do you think you are telling me what choices i should be making in 2022?
I am a live and let live person and not gonna go down the track of how many gay friends i have ,keep preaching to your masses.
It’s his opinion which your claiming victim status for. Make whatever choice you want (he did) but don’t get all bent outta shape when it gets called what it is.

Live and let live doesn’t fly for homophobia, his opinion, which again, you’re choosing to defend is actively contributing to the oppression and high suicide rates and high mental illness rates of the lbgtiq+ community. His opinion, which again, you’re choosing to defend isn’t one of live and let live, it’s one of degrading a persons very right to exist.

I’m not telling you what choice to make, I’m simply pointing out that anyone who makes a choice is burdened with the consequences of that choice. He chose to spout some homophobic rhetoric thinly disguised as religious beliefs and he copped the consequences of it. He’s not the victim you’re claiming he is.
 

nobbyiscool

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 11, 2006
15,045
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Before the issue goes away, there’s a final point I’ve been meaning to make for educational purposes.

If you go to queer services, queer bars, queer-friendly stores et al, you’ll find they’re most are no longer using the traditional rainbow flag as you picture it in your head - admittedly it was the flag we rallied behind during the plebiscite.

Queer & queer friendly spaces are now much more likely to be using this “flag” (inverted commas cos the poster generally includes the words, the physical flag doesn’t.)

85b77ff31da0f4678130b916102784db.jpg


I suspect this factored into why the decision of the Manly 7 hurt so much - we’ve gone out of our way to include black & brown (along with the trans flag) on the symbol we now congregate behind. We’ve invited people of colour into our safe spaces, but these players were not prepared to provide in-turn support for queer communities.

As the week has gone on I’ve become less angry about it - young Polynesian men raised in communities overrun with “Christian missionaries” are probably just ignorant.

I think I’ve come to understand that the lack of consultation probably prevented them having the opportunities to ask questions - what it means, what it represents, why you’re wearing it et al. And that probably put those players in a really shitty situation. It also, I suspect, made it much easier for a Trent Robinson to come out spraying bullets AFTER having the chance to discuss it with his team.

That doesn’t explain why the Manly 7 didn’t change their minds after these issues had been thrashed out - other than probably group think, and the fact that once you have a pre conceived idea of something it’s very hard to change.

It’s even harder to change 2 decades+ of ingrained bigotry and hatred in the space of 3 days.
 

phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
25,104
35,099
Melbourne
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St Kilda
Before the issue goes away, there’s a final point I’ve been meaning to make for educational purposes.

If you go to queer services, queer bars, queer-friendly stores et al, you’ll find they’re most are no longer using the traditional rainbow flag as you picture it in your head - admittedly it was the flag we rallied behind during the plebiscite.

Queer & queer friendly spaces are now much more likely to be using this “flag” (inverted commas cos the poster generally includes the words, the physical flag doesn’t.)

85b77ff31da0f4678130b916102784db.jpg


I suspect this factored into why the decision of the Manly 7 hurt so much - we’ve gone out of our way to include black & brown (along with the trans flag) on the symbol we now congregate behind. We’ve invited people of colour into our safe spaces, but these players were not prepared to provide in-turn support for queer communities.

As the week has gone on I’ve become less angry about it - young Polynesian men raised in communities overrun with “Christian missionaries” are probably just ignorant.

I think I’ve come to understand that the lack of consultation probably prevented them having the opportunities to ask questions - what it means, what it represents, why you’re wearing it et al. And that probably put those players in a really shitty situation. It also, I suspect, made it much easier for a Trent Robinson to come out spraying bullets AFTER having the chance to discuss it with his team.

That doesn’t explain why the Manly 7 didn’t change their minds after these issues had been thrashed out - other than probably group think, and the fact that once you have a pre conceived idea of something it’s very hard to change.

It’s even harder to change 2 decades+ of ingrained bigotry and hatred in the space of 3 days.
This is far more patience, tolerance and understanding than I have (or than I think the Manly 7 and others deserve). I can only applaud that and thank you for giving us some insight and education.
 

Fabab

Premiership Player
May 2, 2018
3,337
2,804
AFL Club
Carlton
You
Before the issue goes away, there’s a final point I’ve been meaning to make for educational purposes.

If you go to queer services, queer bars, queer-friendly stores et al, you’ll find they’re most are no longer using the traditional rainbow flag as you picture it in your head - admittedly it was the flag we rallied behind during the plebiscite.

Queer & queer friendly spaces are now much more likely to be using this “flag” (inverted commas cos the poster generally includes the words, the physical flag doesn’t.)

85b77ff31da0f4678130b916102784db.jpg


I suspect this factored into why the decision of the Manly 7 hurt so much - we’ve gone out of our way to include black & brown (along with the trans flag) on the symbol we now congregate behind. We’ve invited people of colour into our safe spaces, but these players were not prepared to provide in-turn support for queer communities.

As the week has gone on I’ve become less angry about it - young Polynesian men raised in communities overrun with “Christian missionaries” are probably just ignorant.

I think I’ve come to understand that the lack of consultation probably prevented them having the opportunities to ask questions - what it means, what it represents, why you’re wearing it et al. And that probably put those players in a really shitty situation. It also, I suspect, made it much easier for a Trent Robinson to come out spraying bullets AFTER having the chance to discuss it with his team.

That doesn’t explain why the Manly 7 didn’t change their minds after these issues had been thrashed out - other than probably group think, and the fact that once you have a pre conceived idea of something it’s very hard to change.

It’s even harder to change 2 decades+ of ingrained bigotry and hatred in the space of 3 days.
A very sensible post at last,cheers matey.
 

nobbyiscool

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 11, 2006
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You

A very sensible post at last,cheers matey.

Cheers, I’m glad I was able to interject with something a bit less angry.

It’s not to say that they aren’t bigoted hypocrites - they absolutely are. It’s just not their fault, and Hasler’s apology now makes more sense (to me at least) in acknowledging that the club failed to even gauge opinion, let alone attempt to “de-program” bigotry.

You know what I really hope for now?

I want the NRL community to let this issue lie for this season. I don’t want the Roosters or anyone else going for a cheap PR stunt, and I don’t want the queer community to keep hounding these players.

I want Manly to put time and effort into these players, to have queer educators explain their impact to these players, to show them that loving everyone is entirely congruent with their faith.

And then with World Pride in Sydney next year, I want to see the NRL have a Pride round to coincide; have Manly host the Thursday night game at the new SFS in the gayest jersey you’ve ever seen, and have these 7 players (or whoever’s left) lead the team out; hope to God (irony intended) that you can find a queer service who will take Manly’s money to let them promote them on the jersey in place of all betting & alcohol.

Show us that you’ve learned on the biggest stage possible.
 

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mikey127

Premiership Player
Feb 4, 2011
4,573
3,560
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Brisbane Lions
It’s not highly unlikely, I said it earlier you can’t argue faith with facts because you won’t listen to facts.

You’ve had a bunch of people ask you directly where Jesus said it’s a sin, you’ve also had a bunch of people point out the hypocrisy of your picking which bits of the Bible you follow, you ignored them.

Your bigotry is a choice just as your faith is. Your gay friends might not say your homophobic but you oppose the gay pride symbol, id assume you oppose gay marriage and equality in the broader sense? That is the very definition of homophobic and discriminatory. You do you, just stop kidding yourself and pretending you’d love to have a beer and explain why being gay is wrong.
I was happy to leave it as previously mentioned in respect of what others wanted and still happy too but if you really want to keep going well can.

I don't lose any sleep having someone on here tell me I'm a bigot or homophobic simply because I have a different opinion to them

I accept Christ as my lord and saviour and follow his teachings. I'm often wrong in life and if anyone can take the time to sit down with me and show me how I'm getting his teachings wrong I'm more than happy to listen.

For the record the Christian stance on guys was the hardest thing for me to come to terms with when I became a Christian.

If you really want to keep going we can but hopefully we can both be respectful of other on here and get back to talking footy.

Storm to bounce back tonight and hopefully get our season back on track.
 

phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
25,104
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I was happy to leave it as previously mentioned in respect of what others wanted and still happy too but if you really want to keep going well can.

I don't lose any sleep having someone on here tell me I'm a bigot or homophobic simply because I have a different opinion to them

I accept Christ as my lord and saviour and follow his teachings. I'm often wrong in life and if anyone can take the time to sit down with me and show me how I'm getting his teachings wrong I'm more than happy to listen.

For the record the Christian stance on guys was the hardest thing for me to come to terms with when I became a Christian.

If you really want to keep going we can but hopefully we can both be respectful of other on here and get back to talking footy.

Storm to bounce back tonight and hopefully get our season back on track.
I’m glad you sleep soundly at night knowing you contribute to the oppression and vilification of the lgbtiq+ community. It’s not mine nor anyone else job to educate you on anything dude, that’s your job. Stick to rugby league cause when it comes to gay rights and even your own religion your ignorance and intolerance (thinly disguised as “beliefs”) are very telling.
 

royboy2

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Dec 7, 2007
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I was happy to leave it as previously mentioned in respect of what others wanted and still happy too but if you really want to keep going well can.

I don't lose any sleep having someone on here tell me I'm a bigot or homophobic simply because I have a different opinion to them

I accept Christ as my lord and saviour and follow his teachings. I'm often wrong in life and if anyone can take the time to sit down with me and show me how I'm getting his teachings wrong I'm more than happy to listen.

For the record the Christian stance on guys was the hardest thing for me to come to terms with when I became a Christian.

If you really want to keep going we can but hopefully we can both be respectful of other on here and get back to talking footy.

Storm to bounce back tonight and hopefully get our season back on track.

To be fair, I struggle with everything after "In the beginning..."

But I'd love to know how you came to terms with these 15 other "Christian stances".

  • No eating shellfish, clams, oysters, urchins, or lobsters.
Leviticus 11:10 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.”

  • If you wear ripped jeans, you're going to burn.
Leviticus 10:6 “Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.”

  • You also can't wear mixed cloth, no more footy jumpers
Leviticus 19:19 “Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.”

  • No short haircuts
Leviticus 19:27 “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads.”

  • Beard required
Leviticus 19:27 “Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.”

  • That tattoo of a cross isn't getting you extra credit
Leviticus 19:28 “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”

  • No alcohol in church (people probably don't do this anyw- oh wait)
Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die.”

  • Pull out & the lord will kill you
Genesis 38:9-10 "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also."

  • No balls=No god
Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

  • No jewellery
Timothy 2:9 "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments."

  • No female teachers or employers
Timothy 2:12 " I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

  • If you've ever cheated on someone, we have to kill you
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death."

  • If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their community"
"If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her menstrual period, both of them must be cut off from the community, for together they have exposed the source of her blood flow."

  • Not a virgin before marriage - Put to death
Deuteronomy 22: 20-21 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

Bonus! A raped person must marry their own rapist!

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.



Take your time, Feel free to address each one individually, I'm really keen to know
 
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Ice-Wolf

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Timothy 2:12 " I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
Well that rules out most of the teaching profession. Plus those Ultra Conservative Justices on the US Supreme Court are an even bigger hypocrites 1 for accepting the supreme court vote of a woman and 2 for being a woman on the supreme court.

And thats in the New Testament so you can't just ignore it like Leviticus & Deuteronomy.
 
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Ice-Wolf

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If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
So young woman must be a virgin and they have to be discovered? How much is 50 shekels of silver in today's money?
 

phantom13

Moderator
Sep 12, 2007
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To be fair, I struggle with everything after "In the beginning..."

But I'd love to know how you came to terms with these 15 other "Christian stances".

  • No eating shellfish, clams, oysters, urchins, or lobsters.
Leviticus 11:10 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.”

  • If you wear ripped jeans, you're going to burn.
Leviticus 10:6 “Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people.”

  • You also can't wear mixed cloth, no more footy jumpers
Leviticus 19:19 “Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.”

  • No short haircuts
Leviticus 19:27 “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads.”

  • Beard required
Leviticus 19:27 “Neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.”

  • That tattoo of a cross isn't getting you extra credit
Leviticus 19:28 “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”

  • No alcohol in church (people probably don't do this anyw- oh wait)
Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die.”

  • Pull out & the lord will kill you
Genesis 38:9-10 "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also."

  • No balls=No god
Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

  • No jewellery
Timothy 2:9 "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments."

  • No female teachers or employers
Timothy 2:12 " I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

  • If you've ever cheated on someone, we have to kill you
Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death."

  • If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their community"
"If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her menstrual period, both of them must be cut off from the community, for together they have exposed the source of her blood flow."

  • Not a virgin before marriage - Put to death
Deuteronomy 22: 20-21 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

Bonus! A raped person must marry their own rapist!

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.



Take your time, Feel free to address each one individually, I'm really keen to know
I sincerely appreciate the effort put in here but old mate has made it abundantly clear he has no idea how to reply to any questions of any sort of merit.

His "good faith" suggestion of having a beer to discuss the matter is a total lie.
 

JD888

Senior List
Sep 24, 2017
224
328
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Hawthorn
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
This is not a comment either way on the subject, however I was interested to know if you actually knew all of that. Hilariously and embarrassingly you copied it from here: Dr. Laura and Leviticus

Plagiarism!!
 
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