Official 2011 Draft Day Thread

[Fatcat08]

Agree hadley is doing a good job on the midfield/3rd tall types. Jury still out on his ability to spot and bring in taller talent.

If we don't go for 2-3 talls in the rookie draft we will continue to have serious issues. Even if they don't make it we really need to have some bigger guys playing down back in the reserves to provide the team with better structure. We're really sacrificing the games and development of some in the reserves with our complete lack of tall backmen. Needs to be addressed purely from this point of view.

 

[chopperduck]

I was surprised so many KPP weren't taken at all. This was clearly a weak draft for KPP, so it doesn't surprise me we ignored them, just like everyone else. We spent pick 29 on Lisle because we thought he was a better option than what would be available there in the draft. I can see us taking a few via rookie list to try jag a few, otherwise it will have to be addressed in the next draft.

If Acorn can't cement himself in the team this year, we have to assume he won't make it and draft accordingly. Really need a genuine forward and a genuine defender to start developing

 

[dlanod]

Hehe that was probably me.

Definately made that comment.

From what I remember, it sounded like an awfully female voice. Not judging though...

Buntine was the guy I thought who looked the most upset. He did not look impressed at all.

I think GWS is going to have a lot of trouble keeping their players.

When they had all 10 up there, Sumner looked like the only one who wasn't either grinning like an idiot or being pretty cheery. That was the only one I noted, but I can't say I was paying attention when they went up individually.

FWIW, this is my take- GWS getting the pick of the crop was the easy bit. If Jonathon Patton stays one year beyond his initial contract, always assuming he is the real deal of course, before he is recruited back to the Eddie FL on huge $'s I for one will be amazed. This same siren call of home will apply to most if not all of the other GWS recruits, all of who come from outside NSW.

I can see Patton hanging around (he strikes me as leader/loyal/etc type), but I think there'll definitely be some who take their opportunity to leave much like the rumours about Bennell, Toy and Caddy at the GC.

 

[chopperduck]

agree with the reserves point as well. We should have either Hudson or longer as ruck which is great, and some good mids, but KPP are needed. I think Merrett, Patful and Lester are our best 22 defenders, leaving Goose and McKeever as the 2nds defenders. Retzy and probably Acorn as forwards. It's not a bad spine, but there isnt much development in these players. McKeever is still a bit off, Goose is nearly finished. Jury still out on Acorn after 3 years and Retzy is raw as well. There are no sure fire players there getting game time, and worst of all, no depth after that. We need some fresh faces in there playing and developing for sure, just seems we didn't like any this year.

Quigley, it's early but who are the KPP to look put for next year ?

 

[spotthedog1]

I think spotthedog1 might be a troll from another club.

Wow. nice one... just coz i disagree with you on our outlook from here doesn't mean i'm not a fan.

The person who said i was judging too harshly without seeing them play. Fair enough. IMO, I thought we could've done better. That's all. Really wanted Greene at 12 which is unfortunate, and not a big Yeo fan from what I've seen. He's had glimpses, but nothing consistent. And I think Weardon was a speccy, which I'm fine with, but we could've rookied him, seeing as there's very little chance of him playing senior footy in 2012 (looks like we got him as an talent who's had v. little training), and no other clubs have been near him (to my knowledge).

 

[spotthedog1]

People on the Drafts board who'd know reckon Collingwood were right into him.

As for Bosely and Frost, no one else picked them up either - maybe Bigfooty groupthink has misled us all again? Regardless, using your logic with Weadon, as no other club picked them up, doesn't it make sense to leave them for the rookie draft?

Interesting stuff BD - hadn't heard anything on anyone else being into him, but that at least makes it interesting. All in all, it seems like they've gone for someone who is talented and has shown glimpses, but really hasn't been subjected to proper training... In other words, an "upside potential" pick. Which to me is what the point of the rookie draft is for. I'm not annoyed at the pick (a bit annoyed at the Yeo pick), I could do the cliched "see what we did with Rocky as a prospect - we must have an eye for talent", but regardless, they're taking a stab in a weak draft, which is fine with me, and it makes more sense if he would've gone to the Pies, i just hadn't heard that...

 

[gecko8]

Just putting this out there. For GWS to take Haynes @ 7 over Longer & Tomlinson means they must've reasonably expected us to be a fair chance of taking him @ 8?

I'm starting to wonder what the overall game-plan strategy is in the medium to long-term with us picking so many 190cm-ish flexible utility type players.

 

[Old Den]

Interesting stuff BD - hadn't heard anything on anyone else being into him, but that at least makes it interesting. All in all, it seems like they've gone for someone who is talented and has shown glimpses, but really hasn't been subjected to proper training... In other words, an "upside potential" pick. Which to me is what the point of the rookie draft is for. I'm not annoyed at the pick (a bit annoyed at the Yeo pick), I could do the cliched "see what we did with Rocky as a prospect - we must have an eye for talent", but regardless, they're taking a stab in a weak draft, which is fine with me, and it makes more sense if he would've gone to the Pies, i just hadn't heard that...

You are annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters rated in their top 20?

I am reminded of some who were annoyed at the club passing on Beams and Robinson to take Redden in the 2008 draft.

 

[notliondown]

As someone who doesn't get a chance to focus too much on the up and coming talent around the country, I always find myself quietly sitting and just reading and watching the comments and reactions in these draft threads with some... lets say... bewilderment

Theres definitely some people here who are all over the talent and have some structured and logical views.

Then there are some who just have views.

And then theres some that you just cant help but feel that even if the club had crystal ball and knew what to do to make the future fall just right, they still wouldnt be happy.

All this talk of KPP's...

Is it just me or hasnt AFL moved on so quickly that true dedicated KPP's now are almost non existent? In a game where everyone has to multiskill, break lines, move quickly and adapt to structure and plan changes instantly real KPP's barely exist.

To me, and its only my opinion, theres probably 3 real KPP positions... Full/CHF forward (and thats blurred these days), full/CHB and ruck (another spot thats blurred given the amount of throw ins and around the ground restarts meaning theres usually 3 people doing the job)...

I'd rather have a team of dynamic, multi skilled, adaptable, versatile players than dedicated KPP's any day. Add in the substitute rule which can work against you if you sub early or dont have the right KPP waiting and the need for players who can fill any role they physically fit in is crucial.

Between the draft and trade week, apart from Hudson maybe, all I see are a group of young guys who already slip easily between roles. Read the bios, ruck who plays forward, winger or rebounding defender, forward that can easily bolster the back line...

I'll bet half these guys end up in roles that right now doesnt list on their CV. And I'd almost bet even then they dont stay in that position for ever.

AFL has become so fast, so dynamic the roles change every time the ball goes forward, and the whole field is almost a mid field now.

I think we've done awesomely well in this pre season... theres a feel and a vibe thats been missing for so long. The players look and sound ready happy and positive. The new recruits already have found homes if you believe twitter and the guys are ready to embrace them with open arms.

I dont have blind faith in anyone... but I'm sure not going to doubt people who make a life and a profession out of spotting and grooming talent either. These guys will be moulded and groomed into being the best they can be... and unless AFL turns into a stagnant stationary game, I'm happy having to take as many mutliskilled and versatile players as we can get.

 

[Cousin Jed]

I'm starting to wonder what the overall game-plan strategy is in the medium to long-term with us picking so many 190cm-ish flexible utility type players.

New Western Bulldogs

 

[thoselionslads]

I'm starting to wonder what the overall game-plan strategy is in the medium to long-term with us picking so many 190cm-ish flexible utility type players.

Crossed my mind as well. West Coast certainly made an impression with their army of mobile big men this year. Although I think a lot of them a physical types as much as anything, they still have their focal points though (Kennedy et al). The skinny skilful 190cmish players are favourites of Scott Clayton.

The most intriguing part of the draft for mine was us overlooking Tomlinson. Our ruck issue is obviously a pressing need but we do already have an A grade ruck. What we don't have is an A grade KPP coming through the ranks.

Is it reasonable to assume that Tomlinson wasn't rated as highly by recruiters as perhaps he was on BF? Both GWS & Bris were willing to pass on him.

 

[gecko8]

New Western Bulldogs

Prelim final specialists then?

 

[spotthedog1]

You are annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters rated in their top 20?

I am reminded of some who were annoyed at the club passing on Beams and Robinson to take Redden in the 2008 draft.

No, i'm annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters SAY they rated ~20. If you want to blind faith follow your recruiters, not sure why you're here. Forums generally aren't for blind faith. I'm not going to go "wow, he must be awesome" just because we picked him.

I didn't get to watch much of Yeo, but I didn't really think heaps of what I saw. And since then I've read reports around the place. Some of the most common terms used to describe Yeo have been "panicky", "inconsistent", and "can't handle pressure". Admittedly, there've also been several positives thrown up about him, and so if he can work on his negatives, he could be a good pick up. For me, if we'd taken him at 47, I'd have had no worries. I just didn't rate him at 30, and he's not someone I'm going to get my knickers in a twist for any time soon. If he turns out great, that's awesome, and I'll be the first to cheer. But I just didn't think he was a bargain at 30, and I don't see why that's a problem.

 

[BrisbaneLion9636]

As someone who doesn't get a chance to focus too much on the up and coming talent around the country, I always find myself quietly sitting and just reading and watching the comments and reactions in these draft threads with some... lets say... bewilderment

Theres definitely some people here who are all over the talent and have some structured and logical views.

Then there are some who just have views.

And then theres some that you just cant help but feel that even if the club had crystal ball and knew what to do to make the future fall just right, they still wouldnt be happy.

All this talk of KPP's...

Is it just me or hasnt AFL moved on so quickly that true dedicated KPP's now are almost non existent? In a game where everyone has to multiskill, break lines, move quickly and adapt to structure and plan changes instantly real KPP's barely exist.

To me, and its only my opinion, theres probably 3 real KPP positions... Full/CHF forward (and thats blurred these days), full/CHB and ruck (another spot thats blurred given the amount of throw ins and around the ground restarts meaning theres usually 3 people doing the job)...

I'd rather have a team of dynamic, multi skilled, adaptable, versatile players than dedicated KPP's any day. Add in the substitute rule which can work against you if you sub early or dont have the right KPP waiting and the need for players who can fill any role they physically fit in is crucial.

Between the draft and trade week, apart from Hudson maybe, all I see are a group of young guys who already slip easily between roles. Read the bios, ruck who plays forward, winger or rebounding defender, forward that can easily bolster the back line...

I'll bet half these guys end up in roles that right now doesnt list on their CV. And I'd almost bet even then they dont stay in that position for ever.

AFL has become so fast, so dynamic the roles change every time the ball goes forward, and the whole field is almost a mid field now.

I think we've done awesomely well in this pre season... theres a feel and a vibe thats been missing for so long. The players look and sound ready happy and positive. The new recruits already have found homes if you believe twitter and the guys are ready to embrace them with open arms.

I dont have blind faith in anyone... but I'm sure not going to doubt people who make a life and a profession out of spotting and grooming talent either. These guys will be moulded and groomed into being the best they can be... and unless AFL turns into a stagnant stationary game, I'm happy having to take as many mutliskilled and versatile players as we can get.

POTY. Well said, pretty much sums up my views of it all.

 

[dane000]

Sumner used the word "grouse"
Glad we didn't pick him

 

[spotthedog1]

Sumner used the word "grouse"
Glad we didn't pick him

Lol. Agreed. Best comment ever.

 

[Ruse]

I'm annoyed we didn't draft Tyler Chalwell we had 4 picks to do it.

 

[PTizzle]

For the last 4 years we have lost more key positions than we have taken. That's each and every year. We also comfortably have the least number of key positions of any AFL club.

We did completely ignore the issue in the draft pretty much as we have done in the last 4 drafts. This is Hadley's 4th draft and he has only used 2 picks on genuine KPs (ignoring Maguire and Lester is a third tall not a KP) and has never used a pick earlier than the 5th round (from memory that was where Retzlaff went). Hadley has done a great job restocking the midfield but you can't deny he has left the key positions seriously short of talent and depth.

I do agree Quigs and it's slightly worrying. Looking into the future after Brown and Maguire move on (they'll be the first KPP's to do so no doubt) we've only got Patfull, Lisle, Merrett, Cornelius, McKeever and Retzlaff for our KPP stocks essentially. Our smalls, mediums and rucks look like they'll be a fantastic group but it is a worry. I'll back the club in as surely they've noticed this and will assumedly go hard in the rookie/PS drafts to grab a few blokes. You'd definitely hope so at least - we can't rely on hole plugging stopgaps like Maguire if we're building for the future.

The good thing about taking Longer is our ruck stocks are very well sorted for the forseeable future and an injury won't completely ruin us in that department anymore. We definitely need more pace and good kicking so it's not a bust by any means. I would have taken someone like Talia at 30 and hoped that Yeo slipped (I think our defense is more worrying than our forward line) but I'll definitely back the recruiters in.

Pretty happy with the 2011 additions to be honest. Still got Polec and Bartlett to look forward to in 2012 as well. I'd think we'll be starting to get up and about from next year a bit more than '10/'11 and fingers crossed our KPP stocks increase and continue to develop.

I definitely feel like the group is more rounded after the draft and I'm very positive about our list. Every club has a few issues with certain areas.

 

[Old Den]

No, i'm annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters SAY they rated ~20. If you want to blind faith follow your recruiters, not sure why you're here. Forums generally aren't for blind faith. I'm not going to go "wow, he must be awesome" just because we picked him.

I didn't get to watch much of Yeo, but I didn't really think heaps of what I saw. And since then I've read reports around the place. Some of the most common terms used to describe Yeo have been "panicky", "inconsistent", and "can't handle pressure". Admittedly, there've also been several positives thrown up about him, and so if he can work on his negatives, he could be a good pick up. For me, if we'd taken him at 47, I'd have had no worries. I just didn't rate him at 30, and he's not someone I'm going to get my knickers in a twist for any time soon. If he turns out great, that's awesome, and I'll be the first to cheer. But I just didn't think he was a bargain at 30, and I don't see why that's a problem.

Who said it was a problem?...if you want to back your very limited knowledge about a player that Hadley identified as a prospect a long time before you ever heard of him and has been following his progress closely since...feel free... be annoyed...no skin of my nose...you answered my question in the first sentence of your response.

Interesting that Shifter also has Yeo in his top 30...as to whether he is a bargain or not,my position is the same as it was with the Redden selection that surprised many...see how it turns out.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

You are annoyed at taking a player at 30 that the recruiters rated in their top 20?

I am reminded of some who were annoyed at the club passing on Beams and Robinson to take Redden in the 2008 draft.

& that was based more so on state bias that any player knowledge.

This time around just remove that state bias & we have a similar result.

 

[Haso]

Wow. nice one... just coz i disagree with you on our outlook from here doesn't mean i'm not a fan.

The person who said i was judging too harshly without seeing them play. Fair enough. IMO, I thought we could've done better. That's all. Really wanted Greene at 12 which is unfortunate, and not a big Yeo fan from what I've seen. He's had glimpses, but nothing consistent. And I think Weardon was a speccy, which I'm fine with, but we could've rookied him, seeing as there's very little chance of him playing senior footy in 2012 (looks like we got him as an talent who's had v. little training), and no other clubs have been near him (to my knowledge).

To be fair, I was also referring to your comments in another thread on the boys tanking next year, which made me feel ill. In the light of day though, I understand the point that you are making, but I simply do not see the point in not playing a season to reach the finals. Vossy mentioned as much in a LionsTV video recently and I could not agree with him more.

On another topic, I agree with you to the extent that we shouldn't universally praise the recruiters or club officials, but given our trade week, the lack of depth in this years draft for KPPs (or anything, really), and the change in management and new coaching staff, I have to say that the club looks like its stopped walking backwards and is warming up for a powerful forward sprint. Pardon my terrible metaphor. Rather than having a crack at the recruiters for a job that they are experts in and that we have a limited understanding of, I think it would be a better use of our time to be content for now and have a look to see what this new Brisbane Lions outfit can do next March.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

.I didn't get to watch much of Yeo, but I didn't really think heaps of what I saw. And since then I've read reports around the place. Some of the most common terms used to describe Yeo have been "panicky", "inconsistent", and "can't handle pressure". Admittedly, there've also been several positives thrown up about him, and so if he can work on his negatives, he could be a good pick up. For me, if we'd taken him at 47, I'd have had no worries. I just didn't rate him at 30, and he's not someone I'm going to get my knickers in a twist for any time soon. If he turns out great, that's awesome, and I'll be the first to cheer. But I just didn't think he was a bargain at 30, and I don't see why that's a problem.

It's more the basis of your thoughts that are perhaps annoying.

'I didn't get to see much of him' - So how many live games did you in fact see?

'Read reports around the place' - name the sources of these reports?

'I just didn't rate him at 30' - what number did you 'rate' him at? & what is the basis of your ratings. Please say John & his tea leaves................

Honestly I doubt you have ever seen him in more than 1 live game (if any) given his state of origin, & aside from reading blogs like BF I doubt you have spoken to a genuine recruiter/authority on the draft.

You are entitled to your thoughts but people will always be suspicious as to just what credence is in fact behind them & even more so when they are negative.

 

[jjami15]

I don't want to criticise any particular choice but as a whole our list continues to get more and more out of balance. We have a severe lack of key positions and again this was completely ignored by our recruitment team. We might take a couple in the rookie draft but these guys are long shots. We desparately need to put some time into developing some big guys. We have painted ourselved into a corner where next year we virtually have to take a key position. There are a few nice ones sure but there are a lot more great small / medium prospects and we will have to overlook them to address a list completely out of balance.

Concur

 

[Bucking Beads]

It is Puzzling that we haven't really looked to fix our obvious needs of KPP IMO.

 

[ZoBlitz]

I guess the question is, do you pick up a KPP if you don't really rate any of them? Because maybe that's the thinking that went on.