ThePuppetMaster
Yay
The majority of his highlights are of him in the VFL as well (Blue and Gold striped)
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Mega Thread Official 2012 Draft discussion thread: All drafts complete.
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I have finished all my phanton draft selections on our board & thought I would post a summary here. Obviously a couple of these will be rookie upgrades but when we started they hadn't been announced so we decided to ignore rookie upgrades - so the last 2 are just for fun.
4. Melbourne - Oliver Wines
27. Melbourne -Jack Viney
49. Melbourne - Harley Montgomery
53. Melbourne - Shannon Taylor
70. Melbourne - Michael Close
73. Melbourne -Myke Cook
74. Melbourne - Sean Lynch
Oliver Wines (Mid)
H: 185cm W:83kg / ‘94
I am picking this bloke below over O'Rourke (narrowly) essentially because he is ready to play. The Dees need to rebuild their midfield ASAP to be competitive. They are desperate to have an impact next year and with this guy & Viney & their long list of trade acquistions they just might. Neeld loves guys in this mould.Wines is a ready made AFL player and more physically ready than most of the other midfielders in the draft. He is predominantly an inside mid who wins a lot of contested ball & clearances and tackles hard. However, he has a well rounded game with good skills, decision making and can kick a goal. He seems to be able to setup a lot of plays from stoppages with smart use in congestion. A natural footballer who knows when & where to run which allows him to rack up some big numbers. Can run all day. You get the feeling he is exactly the type of player Neeld would love and will fit his game plan beautifully. With Viney, Wines & Trengove he has a midfield core that can drive the team forward for many years to come.
Jack Viney (Mid)
Height: 178cm, Weight: 80kg, DOB: 13/04/1994
A lot said about Viney already so here is Knightmare’s write up for anyone interested.
Really competitive and hard inside midfielder. Could have joined an AFL club as a 17 year old and been a regular. Not a big fella, but purely and simply he is the hardest player I’ve seen coming through the system and his attack on the ball, attack on the man and aggression on the field is without equal and the big reason why he is such a dominant player already. Wins all the hard, contested ball and as a 17 year old was doing better than most of the 18 year olds who got drafted early, so Melbourne will get very lucky to have young Jack who I’m sure will very quickly become a Mark Neeld favourite. Tackling is excellent. Is a real leader out on the field and is someone who really leads by his actions and hardness at the footy. Potential culture changer and sure to be a member of the leadership group soon enough. Really high character guy and hard worker who will put time into his game until he becomes elite. Jack has very clean hands and uses it well by hand consistently. Big time accumulator. Left foot kick, can use his right. Kicking is generally very good and can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft. Speed is good and can break away from packs, also athletically I like his agility and side step, has some evasiveness and can burst off in another direction at pace. The big strength athletically is his endurance which without seeing any of his testing I suspect would be very, very good because he has such a high work rate.
Harley Montgomery (Def/Mid)Height 177 Weight 70 DOB 20/02/94
Montgomery has essentially been pegged as a small defender, he played this role very well in the under 18 champs. He is quick so he can not only shut down those dangerous quick forwards he can get on his bike & rebound well. His one on one work in the air or on the ground is excellent and what you want from a defender. His decision making is also sound and can use it well coming out of the back 50. There are a number of decent small defenders at this level of the draft, but the reason I went for Harley is that he should be able to play a midfield role at some stage too or at least get involved in the rotations. He can add a bit of zip to a currently slowish midfield group.
Shannon Taylor (Mid/Fwd)Height 177 Weight 70 DOB 20/02/94
Taylor is quick, real quick. At last years draft combine he was the fastest player over 20 metres when he was being looked at for the mini draft and had been rated highly at that stage. Since then he has dropped off the radar a bit with his performances not being outstanding and not improving as much as anticipated. I think a victim of expectation in many ways. I think the drop off had a lot to do with him building up a tank and being a little small at this stage. He has all the skills to be very dangerous in the forward line. However, ideally you would eventually want him graduating to the midfield & providng that blistering outside pace that Melbourne is craving.
I was close to letting him slide & hoping to pick him up later in preference to a safer player, however there are not too many left that can provide the zing that he can. Certainly a risk that he cannot make the jump to AFL and needs some time before he does. Also a big go home factor.
Michael Close (KPF/KPD)
H: 195cm W: 82kg DOB: 30/7/94
I have picked Close as a key back option. There is not too many decent key forwards in this draft, but this bloke I think could do a job down back. He is touted as a key forward or key back, but with Melbourne's forward line setup established now its time to focus on defence. He will need a few years to develop & get some size and eventually come in to support Frawley. Is the kind of guy who with his tank could chase around a guy like Nick Riewolt & Travis Cloke. Was too good too let slide any further than this.
Knightmare's write up:
Mobile key position player with elite endurance for a key position player. Can play forward or back but is probably more suited to playing down back. Reasonable mark overhead but as a key forward probably not dominant enough for my liking. Good user of the footy for someone at his height. Has had his injury issues this year but still looks a strong chance to get drafted.
Myke Cook (Mid)
Cook is a former Crow that got delisted and went to Sandi in the VFL. To his credit he proved he can be an effective player & is worth a shot at AFL level. Cook is more an outside midfielder, but has a great defensive side to his game and goes hard. I think he would give the green Melbourne midfield an instant older body and complement their budding group of elite inside mids. They made a play for Wellingham & Farren Ray for similar reasons. Would have gone with Shane Nelson if he was available for the same reasons.
Sean Lynch (Mid/Def)H: 184cm W: 76kg, DOB: 30/01/94
Lynch has all the attributes to be a solid player at AFL level. I think he could potentially go higher and see him as close to best available at this stage. He can provide Melbourne with some valuable run, carry & link up in the future. Isn't a freak athlete just an old fashioned footballer who will work hard - I love these types, very undervalued these days.
Knigtmares write up:
High production outside player who mostly plays off a back flank. Work rate excellent and runs all day. Has some pace. Real link up type player and has a natural read on the game and knows where to run. Also has impressed with his kicking skills and is a good user of the footy. Lacks the flashiness of many back flank types but he makes up for it with the substance in his play and production. Defensively could put some further work into his game but otherwise I’ve liked what I’ve seen.
4. Melbourne - Oliver Wines
27. Melbourne -Jack Viney
49. Melbourne - Harley Montgomery
53. Melbourne - Shannon Taylor
70. Melbourne - Michael Close
73. Melbourne -Myke Cook
74. Melbourne - Sean Lynch
Oliver Wines (Mid)
H: 185cm W:83kg / ‘94
I am picking this bloke below over O'Rourke (narrowly) essentially because he is ready to play. The Dees need to rebuild their midfield ASAP to be competitive. They are desperate to have an impact next year and with this guy & Viney & their long list of trade acquistions they just might. Neeld loves guys in this mould.Wines is a ready made AFL player and more physically ready than most of the other midfielders in the draft. He is predominantly an inside mid who wins a lot of contested ball & clearances and tackles hard. However, he has a well rounded game with good skills, decision making and can kick a goal. He seems to be able to setup a lot of plays from stoppages with smart use in congestion. A natural footballer who knows when & where to run which allows him to rack up some big numbers. Can run all day. You get the feeling he is exactly the type of player Neeld would love and will fit his game plan beautifully. With Viney, Wines & Trengove he has a midfield core that can drive the team forward for many years to come.
Jack Viney (Mid)
Height: 178cm, Weight: 80kg, DOB: 13/04/1994
A lot said about Viney already so here is Knightmare’s write up for anyone interested.
Really competitive and hard inside midfielder. Could have joined an AFL club as a 17 year old and been a regular. Not a big fella, but purely and simply he is the hardest player I’ve seen coming through the system and his attack on the ball, attack on the man and aggression on the field is without equal and the big reason why he is such a dominant player already. Wins all the hard, contested ball and as a 17 year old was doing better than most of the 18 year olds who got drafted early, so Melbourne will get very lucky to have young Jack who I’m sure will very quickly become a Mark Neeld favourite. Tackling is excellent. Is a real leader out on the field and is someone who really leads by his actions and hardness at the footy. Potential culture changer and sure to be a member of the leadership group soon enough. Really high character guy and hard worker who will put time into his game until he becomes elite. Jack has very clean hands and uses it well by hand consistently. Big time accumulator. Left foot kick, can use his right. Kicking is generally very good and can find his targets over short and medium range but doesn’t have that same hurt factor as some of the other elite mids in this draft. Speed is good and can break away from packs, also athletically I like his agility and side step, has some evasiveness and can burst off in another direction at pace. The big strength athletically is his endurance which without seeing any of his testing I suspect would be very, very good because he has such a high work rate.
Harley Montgomery (Def/Mid)Height 177 Weight 70 DOB 20/02/94
Montgomery has essentially been pegged as a small defender, he played this role very well in the under 18 champs. He is quick so he can not only shut down those dangerous quick forwards he can get on his bike & rebound well. His one on one work in the air or on the ground is excellent and what you want from a defender. His decision making is also sound and can use it well coming out of the back 50. There are a number of decent small defenders at this level of the draft, but the reason I went for Harley is that he should be able to play a midfield role at some stage too or at least get involved in the rotations. He can add a bit of zip to a currently slowish midfield group.
Shannon Taylor (Mid/Fwd)Height 177 Weight 70 DOB 20/02/94
Taylor is quick, real quick. At last years draft combine he was the fastest player over 20 metres when he was being looked at for the mini draft and had been rated highly at that stage. Since then he has dropped off the radar a bit with his performances not being outstanding and not improving as much as anticipated. I think a victim of expectation in many ways. I think the drop off had a lot to do with him building up a tank and being a little small at this stage. He has all the skills to be very dangerous in the forward line. However, ideally you would eventually want him graduating to the midfield & providng that blistering outside pace that Melbourne is craving.
I was close to letting him slide & hoping to pick him up later in preference to a safer player, however there are not too many left that can provide the zing that he can. Certainly a risk that he cannot make the jump to AFL and needs some time before he does. Also a big go home factor.
Michael Close (KPF/KPD)
H: 195cm W: 82kg DOB: 30/7/94
I have picked Close as a key back option. There is not too many decent key forwards in this draft, but this bloke I think could do a job down back. He is touted as a key forward or key back, but with Melbourne's forward line setup established now its time to focus on defence. He will need a few years to develop & get some size and eventually come in to support Frawley. Is the kind of guy who with his tank could chase around a guy like Nick Riewolt & Travis Cloke. Was too good too let slide any further than this.
Knightmare's write up:
Mobile key position player with elite endurance for a key position player. Can play forward or back but is probably more suited to playing down back. Reasonable mark overhead but as a key forward probably not dominant enough for my liking. Good user of the footy for someone at his height. Has had his injury issues this year but still looks a strong chance to get drafted.
Myke Cook (Mid)
Cook is a former Crow that got delisted and went to Sandi in the VFL. To his credit he proved he can be an effective player & is worth a shot at AFL level. Cook is more an outside midfielder, but has a great defensive side to his game and goes hard. I think he would give the green Melbourne midfield an instant older body and complement their budding group of elite inside mids. They made a play for Wellingham & Farren Ray for similar reasons. Would have gone with Shane Nelson if he was available for the same reasons.
Sean Lynch (Mid/Def)H: 184cm W: 76kg, DOB: 30/01/94
Lynch has all the attributes to be a solid player at AFL level. I think he could potentially go higher and see him as close to best available at this stage. He can provide Melbourne with some valuable run, carry & link up in the future. Isn't a freak athlete just an old fashioned footballer who will work hard - I love these types, very undervalued these days.
Knigtmares write up:
High production outside player who mostly plays off a back flank. Work rate excellent and runs all day. Has some pace. Real link up type player and has a natural read on the game and knows where to run. Also has impressed with his kicking skills and is a good user of the footy. Lacks the flashiness of many back flank types but he makes up for it with the substance in his play and production. Defensively could put some further work into his game but otherwise I’ve liked what I’ve seen.
Svensson
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Yeah, look unfortunately I haven't actually seen any real footage, but from reports and a couple of highlights, I have discovered that Wines is not all that quick, Viney seems to pretty fast, but that's only from a few plays I have seen. And not really sure about Stringer.. Although we have Rodan and Barry coming in along with blease and Nicholson who add plenty or run and carry. I seroiusly believe we just need some players with some freaking grunt already, Jones has it but really no one else plays like him. Stringer, Wines , And Viney will all bring that to the team, but we can only take one from Wines, And stringer obviously. Either way I saw bring on 2013
Devastating Boris
Premiership Player
Tappy is all about the grunt. Loves it tough : )
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Vim Fuego
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'Determination' and 'Physical Strength' are the key ingredients. I am convinced.
Players get put through all types of physical and mental tests prior to drafting. How tall are you?? What's your BMI look like?? How high can you jump? How fast can you run 20 metres? How far can you get in a beep test? Can you kick as well on your left as well as your right?? What are your reactions like??
Having made mental notes of every GF since 2000, i've come to the conlusion that it's the team with the most determined and physically strong group of players that wins. The caveat being, that they obviously do need that collective playing experience, they need more leaders than followers, and obviously the skill. Without fail, bar possibly the 2008 GF, it's been that way.
Look at how Sydney pushed Hawthorn players off the ball for most of the 3rd quarter. Sydney won that game due to a 15 minute patch in the 3rd quarter where they simply ragdolled Hawthorn at every contest. They played with a maniacal intesity, and were able to win virtually every 50/50. It was the likes of Kennedy, Jack, Hannebery, O'Keefe, Bolton & McVeigh who simply wanted it more than the opposition.
To me Ollie Wines fits that exact type of player who will perform in finals football. We will add to our outside run, that's ok...but you need to build the engine room first...and I think Wines looks versatile enough that he can go forward and take a grab and get on the scoreboard as well.
If we have Viney and Wines at every stoppage, the opposition won't even get a look at the football. Get him!
Players get put through all types of physical and mental tests prior to drafting. How tall are you?? What's your BMI look like?? How high can you jump? How fast can you run 20 metres? How far can you get in a beep test? Can you kick as well on your left as well as your right?? What are your reactions like??
Having made mental notes of every GF since 2000, i've come to the conlusion that it's the team with the most determined and physically strong group of players that wins. The caveat being, that they obviously do need that collective playing experience, they need more leaders than followers, and obviously the skill. Without fail, bar possibly the 2008 GF, it's been that way.
Look at how Sydney pushed Hawthorn players off the ball for most of the 3rd quarter. Sydney won that game due to a 15 minute patch in the 3rd quarter where they simply ragdolled Hawthorn at every contest. They played with a maniacal intesity, and were able to win virtually every 50/50. It was the likes of Kennedy, Jack, Hannebery, O'Keefe, Bolton & McVeigh who simply wanted it more than the opposition.
To me Ollie Wines fits that exact type of player who will perform in finals football. We will add to our outside run, that's ok...but you need to build the engine room first...and I think Wines looks versatile enough that he can go forward and take a grab and get on the scoreboard as well.
If we have Viney and Wines at every stoppage, the opposition won't even get a look at the football. Get him!
superfreak
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Shannon Taylor ran the worst 3km time trial in the history of the draft camp. He actually stopped and walked...
CM Sean
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LeverPuller
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KM projecting us to take Grundy, which I doubt, but he's projecting GWS to take O'Rourke over Wines.
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You're all but a dead-set certainty to take Wines according to Emma Quayle.
Also how does your mob fancy Dean Towers? Improved, 22 year old winger who offers loads of line-breaking pace. Would be a good fit for you if you can get him.
Also how does your mob fancy Dean Towers? Improved, 22 year old winger who offers loads of line-breaking pace. Would be a good fit for you if you can get him.
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So she has them taking Whitfield, Toumpas and O'Rourke? Surely we won't take Grundy. Wines would be great but it leaves us short of of an outside player who has blistering speed and great disposal. Could this not be O'Rourke? I've not seen enough of him to know or guess.
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That sounds like my missus on a treadmill.
Very true, but he probably won't be around in the 50's you'd think, with the way he tested at the combine.
DeeWong6996
Norm Smith Medallist
Probably wont be available at our pick in the 40s though.
DeeWong6996
Norm Smith Medallist
As much as I love Wines and the way he goes about it, there is no doubt in my mind that we will take Grundy if he slips.
Jamar is approaching the end whilst Gawn, Fitz and Spencil aren't ready.
Grundy reminds me a lot of Mumford and Jacobs. Very dominant in the ruck but can also use the ball to some extent.
Jamar is approaching the end whilst Gawn, Fitz and Spencil aren't ready.
Grundy reminds me a lot of Mumford and Jacobs. Very dominant in the ruck but can also use the ball to some extent.
Bluelegs
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Pederson and clark can play second ruck if Jamar isn't up to it, by the time he finishes, at least one of Gawn, Spencil or Fitz will be ready.
DeeWong6996
Norm Smith Medallist
Good point but I don't really see anything special in the three mentioned. Gawn boasts height but has been injury prone, Spencil played alright in the latter half of the season but is still incredibly clumsy and Fitz is extremely athletic but cannot translate VFL form to the big league.
Drafting Grundy may seem excessive, but he has higher ceiling than all of them and I would hate to pass up on a potentiall AA ruckmen.
Bluelegs
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I'm not as keen. Our ruck isn't brilliant but it's settled and our midfield is in shocking need of some class. Wines is just that, the complete midfielder.
The only thing Wines doesn't have is speed, but i guess if he had that, he probably wouldn't be in the mix at pick 4.
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Gotta remember that Mitch Clark was in the AA squad of 40 when he was in the ruck at Brisbane. Once Hogan comes in i wouldn't be surprised if Mitch played a lot more ruck. I think we'd be crazy to not draft a mid at 4 considering our tall stocks are far better than our mids.
ThePuppetMaster
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I'd probably have an order of Wines, Plowman then Grundy.
I know people will argue we need a mid - but I'd argue we need the best talent available (IMO).
I know people will argue we need a mid - but I'd argue we need the best talent available (IMO).
ThePuppetMaster
Yay
Plowmans also a Dees kid by the way, which influences my ratings - kid's that play for teams they go for always seem to turn out better.
Bartram_Class
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How quickly we forget.
Praetorian
Premiership Player
Moloney did pretty well considering his heart condition
ThePuppetMaster
Yay
Indeed, how quickly we forget how good Moloney was for us.
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