Mega Thread Official 2012 Draft discussion thread: All drafts complete.

[RandB]

AFL: Dees' No.3 not Viney's yet

POTENTIAL Melbourne father-son recruit Jack Viney has been rated by recruiters as being worth somewhere between the sixth and eighth selection in the upcoming NAB AFL Draft.

A group of AFL recruiters spoken to individually by AFL.com.au valued Viney as being in that range but admitted he could be rated higher if a club was in need of a strong, inside midfielder.

One recruiter said no club could go wrong with a player such as Viney.

Nothing too solid here, but reignites the draft talk as it gets closer. Still hard to take a position on this because even if JV is rated around 6, we still don't know how big the gap is between him and the players rated better than him - 6 is just a spot in the order. I'm well and truely leaving it in the hands of our recruiters to do what's best even though I suspect he'll be a Dee one way or the other.

 

[Devastating Boris]

I am not convinced by any reports to be honest. Most of them have been tripe anyways. I'm still waiting for the article next week which claims Neeld has quit to take up an assistant role under malthouse. Now to work out what number he will play in.

 

[raikkonen64]

there is no chance in hell we will use pick 3 on viney, that would be a complete waste of a pick...if the GC do nominate him, then its simple trade pick 3 for a player or to gws in the mini draft for hogan or martin then viney will automatically be our 2nd round selection as pick 4 and 13 r compo picks...... im sure the clubs not that stupid to waste pick 3 like that!!!!!!!!!!

or if the GC nominate him does that mean we cant trade pick 3?...

and the gws would not knock back pick 3 for a mini draft selection just to make us use pick 3 on viney..

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

 

[raikkonen64]

Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

how doesnt it?... if they nominate viney does that mean we cant trade pick 3?

 

[Captain Jack]

how doesnt it?... if they nominate viney does that mean we cant trade pick 3?

Correct. Once we commit to Viney with pick 3 (which will happen) we have to use that pick on him.

 

[raikkonen64]

Correct. Once we commit to Viney with pick 3 (which will happen) we have to use that pick on him.

thats bullsh!t, its draft tampering at its best if GC nominate viney with pick 2, i guess either way viney will be a dee next yr with either pick 3 or 23... either way not fussed, but would have loved stealing viney at 23...

So i guess all the theorys about doing a trade with the GC and them not to nominate him cant be done as the fs is done b4 trade period unless a gentalmans agreement is done b4 hand...

this is so confusing...

 

[DeeWong6996]

thats bullsh!t, its draft tampering at its best if GC nominate viney with pick 2, i guess either way viney will be a dee next yr with either pick 3 or 23... either way not fussed, but would have loved stealing viney at 23...

So i guess all the theorys about doing a trade with the GC and them not to nominate him cant be done as the fs is done b4 trade period unless a gentalmans agreement is done b4 hand...

this is so confusing...

AFL should really look into this. If it happens, we along with Adelaide will be hit the hardest by these expansion clubs. How is this even fair? GC don't even want Viney, ****ing draft manipulation.

 

[00Stinger]

there is no chance in hell we will use pick 3 on viney, that would be a complete waste of a pick...if the GC do nominate him, then its simple trade pick 3 for a player or to gws in the mini draft for hogan or martin then viney will automatically be our 2nd round selection as pick 4 and 13 r compo picks...... im sure the clubs not that stupid to waste pick 3 like that!!!!!!!!!!

or if the GC nominate him does that mean we cant trade pick 3?...

and the gws would not knock back pick 3 for a mini draft selection just to make us use pick 3 on viney..

have to nominate him before any trading occurs

 

[Howezzat]

AFL should really look into this. If it happens, we along with Adelaide will be hit the hardest by these expansion clubs. How is this even fair? GC don't even want Viney, ******* draft manipulation.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. A few people on the draft boards are suggesting that GC may be more keen on a MD selection (Martin I think), which would make sense as they have to cut their list down, so they may not want to risk committing their selection to Viney. But they also may be genuinely keen on him as they are losing Caddy and need inside mids. I'm hoping we can get him with the second round pick, but the fact is we have 3 picks in the first round, so it is not really the end of the world if it doesn't happen.

 

[Devastating Boris]

In the end viney must come to Melbourne IMO. He has had 12 months under Neeld (give or take) and Neeld is a big fan. The time he's spent already at the club with the new coaching staff will put him ahead of the curve. But hey that's just how I see it I guess.

 

[rhaz]

If gc/gws bid on Viney its not draft tampering, how many times does it have to be said? They are well within their rights to bid on him, just as we could pass and let them take him if we don't deem him worthy of pick 3

 

[Captain Jack]

Correct... if the situation were reversed, every single poster would be all over the bidding process. We won't get anything for free in this draft, get realistic people.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

All true, but it technically is manipulating the draft if they put in a bid on a FS prospect that you have no intention of taking and that you don't rate as highly as the bid you are placing - all because you are safe in the knowledge that the other club has already committed to them.

It's bullshit is what it is! The FS rules were put in place to benefit clubs that wanted to continue the legacy of a family name at the club, not to screw them over!





They took our jaaaaarbs!

 

[Captain Jack]

De de dur durrrrbs!

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I know how to fix this. Let's go and form a big human pile...

 

[Eth]

Tim Membrey kicked eight goals in the TAC Cup yesterday.

Medium forward tipped to go as early as the third round from reports, but jeez, that's still a fair effort. Worth a look if someone like McDonough's snaffled because I think we really need another forward with Green gone and Petterd and Bate seemingly following him.

And good to see I can find the right thread the second time around...

 

[CTHORANGE]

All true, but it technically is manipulating the draft if they put in a bid on a FS prospect that you have no intention of taking and that you don't rate as highly as the bid you are placing - all because you are safe in the knowledge that the other club has already committed to them.

It's bullshit is what it is! The FS rules were put in place to benefit clubs that wanted to continue the legacy of a family name at the club, not to screw them over!

They took our jaaaaarbs!

I agree it could amount to draft manipulation to bid on a player you would not genuinely pick ahead of another player in the draft because you virtually know you won't end up with the nominated player. Reality is though, if we had finished higher on the ladder this would be a non issue, we would be more than happy to use say a pick 7 on Jack Viney (just like Essendon will use pick 10 with Daniher). Because we are flailing at the bottom of the ladder again we are getting narky about missing out on something special. If Viney goes to the 2nd round, I consider it a super massive bonus, though not one we entirely deserve IMO.

Also I think we must pick Viney no matter what. Heart and soul players will become further and farther between with all the rules surrounding trading changing, so we need blokes like Viney like nothing else right now. Oh and another KPF and some pacey midfielders would be nice too.

 

[Beats]

thats bullsh!t, its draft tampering at its best if GC nominate viney with pick 2, i guess either way viney will be a dee next yr with either pick 3 or 23... either way not fussed, but would have loved stealing viney at 23...

So i guess all the theorys about doing a trade with the GC and them not to nominate him cant be done as the fs is done b4 trade period unless a gentalmans agreement is done b4 hand...

this is so confusing...

After you've said that we should trade the pick that we nominate him at, so we can get him at a lower pick.

I like to point out hypocrisy.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Having said that I DO see your point re needs.

Fact is though, we've drafted on "needs" for decades and often passed over "best available"

And the main problem of course, as we all know, has been our inability to effectively develop the players we've drafted.

The prime causes of our situation now have always been the deficiencies in our football department (until the end of 2011), and our poor facilities (until around 2009). Hence why so many players we've recruited who could've become major assets to the club, never did. No matter who you pick, as we've proven beyond doubt, it's immaterial if the FD isn't up to scratch.

Whoever we pick up in this draft, it's all about the development, and ensuring they go on to become consistent performers for us.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

Reading reports that Koby Stevens may want to come home. A few posters here were keen on him in another thread. Worth a look.

Tim Membrey kicked eight goals in the TAC Cup yesterday.

Medium forward tipped to go as early as the third round from reports, but jeez, that's still a fair effort. Worth a look if someone like McDonough's snaffled because I think we really need another forward with Green gone and Petterd and Bate seemingly following him.

And good to see I can find the right thread the second time around...

Would be nice to have a local playing for the Dees (Traralgon boy).

 

[PureFooty]

I'm getting sick of the greed in regards to our picks. It shouldn't matter if we pick up Viney as a first rounder. We were given WAY overs for Scully in the beginning, who we tanked for anyway! If justice prevails we will pick up Viney with pick 3, if we go for him that is, and we should consider ourselves extremely fortunate if we get him in the 2nd round. For how I see it, it shouldn't matter where they are picked, which has been our attitude for years, it should simply be how they are developed.

You only have to look at the Sydney Swans who I've always said would honestly be the best team to support. They have the right mentality, are the most professional team in the AFL, I mean you only have to look at their development of players. They haven't had a top 10 draft pick since 2002. And yet some people on here are complaining with whether Viney goes 2nd or first round, openly knowing we still have another 2 first rounders. It just seems so irrelevant in a teams tilt for a flag. They haven't missed a finals series in how long? They've played in 2 grand finals, a good chance for a third, and haven't been dealt a top 10 pick, that's the image we should be looking at.

 

[Viney]

And the main problem of course, as we all know, has been our inability to effectively develop the players we've drafted.

The prime causes of our situation now have always been the deficiencies in our football department (until the end of 2011), and our poor facilities (until around 2009). Hence why so many players we've recruited who could've become major assets to the club, never did. No matter who you pick, as we've proven beyond doubt, it's immaterial if the FD isn't up to scratch.

Whoever we pick up in this draft, it's all about the development, and ensuring they go on to become consistent performers for us.

Honestly, IMO it's a little from column a, a little from column b

I feel as though we've been drafting poorly, not just because we've picked poor players or failed to develop them, but also due to the fact of drafting for a (for lack of a better term) a previous era.

Dunn and Bate were drafted as big forwards (at 192cms) when forwards were changing to 196+ cm

They were basically obsolete before they even played a game

Wrong coaches (clearly Bailey was too easy on the players - and the Rev played favourites a little TOO much)

But you're correct. The FD has been underresourced and that's also contributed

I'm getting sick of the greed in regards to our picks. It shouldn't matter if we pick up Viney as a first rounder. We were given WAY overs for Scully in the beginning, who we tanked for anyway! If justice prevails we will pick up Viney with pick 3, if we go for him that is, and we should consider ourselves extremely fortunate if we get him in the 2nd round. For how I see it, it shouldn't matter where they are picked, which has been our attitude for years, it should simply be how they are developed.

You only have to look at the Sydney Swans who I've always said would honestly be the best team to support. They have the right mentality, are the most professional team in the AFL, I mean you only have to look at their development of players. They haven't had a top 10 draft pick since 2002. And yet some people on here are complaining with whether Viney goes 2nd or first round, openly knowing we still have another 2 first rounders. It just seems so irrelevant in a teams tilt for a flag. They haven't missed a finals series in how long? They've played in 2 grand finals, a good chance for a third, and haven't been dealt a top 10 pick, that's the image we should be looking at.

I agree.

And we were given way overs for Scully (but not according to the criteria the AFL set out - Age / Original Draft Position / Salary Component of new contract) but remember, we paid WAY over for Scully in the first place

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

I'm getting sick of the greed in regards to our picks. It shouldn't matter if we pick up Viney as a first rounder. We were given WAY overs for Scully in the beginning, who we tanked for anyway! If justice prevails we will pick up Viney with pick 3, if we go for him that is, and we should consider ourselves extremely fortunate if we get him in the 2nd round. For how I see it, it shouldn't matter where they are picked, which has been our attitude for years, it should simply be how they are developed.

You only have to look at the Sydney Swans who I've always said would honestly be the best team to support. They have the right mentality, are the most professional team in the AFL, I mean you only have to look at their development of players. They haven't had a top 10 draft pick since 2002. And yet some people on here are complaining with whether Viney goes 2nd or first round, openly knowing we still have another 2 first rounders. It just seems so irrelevant in a teams tilt for a flag. They haven't missed a finals series in how long? They've played in 2 grand finals, a good chance for a third, and haven't been dealt a top 10 pick, that's the image we should be looking at.

Gary Rohan was Pick 6. But still well said and my sentiments exactly.

 

[Tulip]

Reading reports that Koby Stevens may want to come home. A few posters here were keen on him in another thread. Worth a look.

Would be nice to have a local playing for the Dees (Traralgon boy).

Taggert before Sydney flashback!