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[Carbine Chaos]

not saying that watts is better, but scott selwood is very overrated

Better tell that to the voters in our Best and Fairest last season, eh.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Anyway, cut the crap and just tell me where abouts in the top 20 is Cale Morton?

 

[Underdog]

It is based on a similar method used for golf and tennis rankings though. If a tennis player is injured he's ranking will drop as others are playing and winning matches, don't see why this should be any different?

Actually, tennis players can apply for a protected ranking for extended injury absences.

 

[kiwiii]

And that Jack Watts is a better player than Scott Selwood.

Didn't know the great man followed AFL

 

[dajesmac]

I think Selwood on his day is our best clearance mid.

Kerr aside.

 

[Spooky17]

Great to see Shuey and Hurn so high, but why oh why is Large Cox so far down the list??!??!!?!

 

[UpForGrabs]

Great to see Shuey and Hurn so high, but why oh why is Large Cox so far down the list??!??!!?!

Most of his possessions are uncontested apparently and they don't count for nearly as much.

 

[bodazoka]

#13 - Nic Naitanui (Top ranked ruckman)
#30 - Luke Shuey
#34 - Matt Priddis
#37 - Shannon Hurn (Top ranked defender)
#82 - Daniel Kerr
#98 - Dean Cox
#109 - Scott Selwood
#121 - Andrew Gaff
#132 - Josh Kennedy
#140 - Chris Masten

- A player does suffer for not playing games, there total score over 40 games is less due to missing some games. Hence LeCras is not in the top 10, which considering its top 10 based on the last 40 games of output is fair enough. You cant contribute if your not on the park!

There is also 16 pages of explanation... its pretty detailed and I like it. IMO that list is pretty much our top 10, Masten and Cox could be a little bit higher.

 

[bodazoka]

Most of his possessions are uncontested apparently and they don't count for nearly as much.

No reward is given to players for winning the ball uncontested from a teammate’s disposal, since the full gain in equity is given to the disposal player. The exception is where an uncontested mark is taken on a lead. In this case the gain in equity is shared equally between the kicker and the leading player

Makes sense, Coxy wouldn't get a disposal for gaining possession on a wing but his next kick would determine his points.

 

[ausbacker]

It's official, guys. The argument is SETTLED.


There are 242 players better than Darren Glass.

Champion Data has been a running joke for years. Why should a new and special algorithm they've developed to compliment the manner in which they award statistics be any different?

 

[Spooky17]

Champion Data has been a running joke for years. Why should a new and special algorithm they've developed to compliment the manner in which they award statistics be any different?

They need to add factors in such as intangibles and serveability

 

[ausbacker]

They need to add factors in such as intangibles and serveability

I've long been of the opinion that you can have an influence on the game by having no personal statistical impact on the game. For instance, a defender is comprehensively beating his opponent and the opposition coach identifies that problem. The opposition coach realises that their go to forward should be pushed into a decoy role, thus limiting his role on the game and that of the clearly dominant defender. Champion Data doesn't appear to rate this performance but would favourably rate the performance of the defender if there were statistics involved in that performance.

It's nonsensical and no serious fan can take the AFL's hand picked cherry seriously until they appraise the game in a fashion that is fair and equitable to the role of all 18 players on the field at any given time.

 

[bodazoka]

I've long been of the opinion that you can have an influence on the game by having no personal statistical impact on the game. For instance, a defender is comprehensively beating his opponent and the opposition coach identifies that problem. The opposition coach realises that their go to forward should be pushed into a decoy role, thus limiting his role on the game and that of the clearly dominant defender. Champion Data doesn't appear to rate this performance but would favourably rate the performance of the defender if there were statistics involved in that performance.

It's nonsensical and no serious fan can take the AFL's hand picked cherry seriously until they appraise the game in a fashion that is fair and equitable to the role of all 18 players on the field at any given time.

I agree that lock down defenders get a raw deal, the data should be viewed as the best Midfielders (non taggers), Forwards and Attacking defenders in the game.

It's naive to think just because statistics are used it makes the entire process nonsensical though!

 

[eaglespremiers]

IMO that list is pretty much our top 10, Masten and Cox could be a little bit higher.

Really?
No Mackenzie or Glass?

 

[Blue and Gold Blood]

not saying that watts is better, but scott selwood is very overrated

agree about scooter. Until his disposal is better he is still a fair way off being elite.

 

[Patron]

As far as going who are the best players in the comp it's a bit of a fail. I could make a list myself on my own feel and it would be more commonly accepted as accurate by the average viewer. It seems to have been done pretty similar to super coach tbh. Need to figure out a way for rewarding defenders. I'm sure there a no points for keeping an opposition player possession less. I'm disappointed.

 

[LeCrassic]

- Looked at Number 1 ranking
- Wasn't Swifty

 

[ausbacker]

I agree that lock down defenders get a raw deal, the data should be viewed as the best Midfielders (non taggers), Forwards and Attacking defenders in the game.

It's naive to think just because statistics are used it makes the entire process nonsensical though!

Of course statistics must be used bodazoka it's more the appraisal of player performances that don't involve statistical output that makes the process nonsensical. For instance, a player running to open up space for a team mate to lead into and create a shot on goal is going to have an impact on that play. Administratively, that effort and impact will not be recorded on any stat sheet other than coaching notes. That is the sort of thing that I believe to be just as important as the shot on goal. Those efforts don't get the recognition they deserve.

 

[UpForGrabs]

On Naitanui - here's what the guys themselves said:

"It may be a surprise that Nic Naitanui places as high as he. Naitanui finished his 2012 season as the starting ruckman in the All Australian team, polled more brownlow votes than any other ruckman and more votes in the AFL Coaches Association Champion Player than any other ruckman. Below is a table of seven ruckmen and where they ranked in 2012 in certain stats of the 37 ruckmen to have played five or more games. Naitanui has the best hitout to advantage win percentage, ranks second for contested possessions and third for pressure acts and goals. Excluding uncontested possessions, which gain very few points in Equity Ratings, no other ruckman is in the top-three in more than one category, let alone coming close to Naitanui’s four."

Here's the table:

Player | Mt | Hitout to Adv.Win % | Cont. Poss | Uncont. Poss | Pressure Acts | Tackles | Goals
\ Naitanui |22|1st|2nd|34th|3rd|9th|3rd
\ Ryder |15|4th|9th|5th|12th|18th|2nd
\ Mumford |17|11th|16th|25th|2nd|1st|8th
\ Cox |24|7th|11th|1st|30th|31st|1st
\ Maric |21|9th|5th|3rd|8th|4th|20th
\ Jacobs |24|2nd|20th|2nd|29th|32nd|24th
\ Sandilands |14|8th|1st|23rd|37th|37th|16th

 

[Shupe]

UPDATE​

​

We have our first entrant into the top 10. According to champion data, Nic Naitanui is now ranked as the 9th best player in the competition.​

​

Josh Hill and Shannon Hurn are in great form and have steadily rose in the rankings, with Hill entering the West Coast overall top 10 for the first time. Interestingly, Josh Kennedy (The guy leading the race for the Coleman Medal) has dropped, sitting at #142 and 11 at West Coast.​

 

[Patron]

Can you be the AA ruckman if you miss 6 games?

 

[Rids]

I really like the bias towards disposal efficiency and impact (ie leads to score) and contested possessions but agree that defensive players are clearly disadvantaged. Would be good to have a defensive stat worked in based on goals/possessions conceded and quality of opponent (could just compare to their average). These stats are recorded so surprising they're not included. Would certainly bump the likes of Glass (defender) or Crowley (defensive mid) up the list.

I suspect the Kennedy drop is just a function of the rolling 40 game average (I suspect he had a blinder 40 games ago) - happens in tennis quite a bit. I wonder if there is a heavier weighting to recent performances or whether all 40 games are treated evenly? Would be good if there was a weighting to bias in form players right now.

Anyway - great to see Naitanui in top 10 and I think the justification given is sound - he is clearly the best ruck in the AFL

 

[Shupe]

I heartily endorse all of the above post.

 

[Shupe]

Can you be the AA ruckman if you miss 6 games?

I don't see why not. If he plays out the rest of the season and is still the dominant ruckman, absolutely.

 

[Spooky17]

UPDATE​

​

We have our first entrant into the top 10. According to champion data, Nic Naitanui is now ranked as the 9th best player in the competition.​

​

Josh Hill and Shannon Hurn are in great form and have steadily rose in the rankings, with Hill entering the West Coast overall top 10 for the first time. Interestingly, Josh Kennedy (The guy leading the race for the Coleman Medal) has dropped, sitting at #142 and 11 at West Coast.​

Wow, just wow.