AFLW Official - Bombers, Hawks, Power, Swans all to enter AFLW from 2022-23 onwards.

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The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
35,694
33,445
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Carlton



The AFL is expected to finally embrace an 18-team AFLW competition for the 2022-23 season when it announces expansion plans at midday on Thursday.
The league has not yet informed those four teams - Essendon, Port Adelaide, Sydney and Hawthorn - that they will be in the competition next year.

But the Herald Sun understands the AFL will make the declaration that every team will have its own women’s side for a 2022-23 competition that will start at the end of next year.

The four teams put in detailed submissions which were assessed by the AFL Commission at its two-day meeting last week.

And while there will be significant concerns about the dilution of talent in coming seasons the reality is the league cannot continue holding out sides like Hawthorn, who have battled for years to gain entry to the AFLW.

 

ams4crows

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Bombers seem to be the only new club so far making decent high quality signings.
 

FoopyNerd

Debutant
Jan 23, 2022
60
36
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Sydney
So in recent weeks there have been reports of offers rejected by at least Hatchard, Bates, Rowe, Schleicher, Bonnici, Georgie Prespakis, Riddell, Kearney, Gilroy, Blackburn and Lamb. Substantial offers, at that.

And yet during that time I've encountered a constant stream of complaints that AFLW players aren't loyal, only in it for a quick buck etc etc. Something doesn't add up.
Says a bit about the environment at Carlton...
 

Teen Wolf

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...senior sources at both league headquarters and the players’ association believe a deal will be struck in the next week that could see the average women’s wage double for the upcoming season.

Think I already posted the proposed salary changes for the bottom tier a few pages ago, but here's all 4:

AFLW payments​

Comparing season 6 with the proposed season 7 payments
Season 6​
Season 7​
Tier one (2 players)
$37,155​
$77,149​
Tier two (6 players)
$28,697​
$56,587​
Tier three (6 players)
$24,468​
$50,806​
Tier four (16 players)
$20,239​
$42,025​
 

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Munga

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 2, 2003
9,046
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AFLW players have asked for a huge 107 per cent pay increase year-on-year for the upcoming season.

What a sensationalist line. "Huge 107%"... 107% of little is piddling, not huge.

Another 50% on those Season 7 figures and we should be around the mark to go full-time.
 

cmndstab

Hall of Famer
Apr 29, 2008
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It's also worth noting that next season will almost certainly be longer than the one just gone. It's reasonable to expect your pay to go up if you're working more hours, doing more training sessions, taking leave from your main job for more days, etc.
 

radiojake

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Nov 28, 2011
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What a sensationalist line. "Huge 107%"... 107% of little is piddling, not huge.

Another 50% on those Season 7 figures and we should be around the mark to go full-time.

It is funny - % being big or not is entirely dependent on the original figure

A 400% increase from $5 to $20 isn't in the same ball park as a 10% increase from $1000000 to $1100000

But you know, the girls are greedy 🙄
 

Caputo

Team Captain
Dec 5, 2011
592
269
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Expansion clubs signed players and seriously rumoured at afl.com.au

Essendon Signed 5
Georgia Nanscawen
Maddy Prespakis
Bonnie Toogood
Caitlin Sargent

Sydney Swans Signed 11 Rumoured 3
Ruby Sargent-Wilson
Zoe Hurrell
Bec Privitelli
Ella Heads
Montana Beruldsen
Maddy Collier
Molly Eastman
Sarah Ford
Alice Mitchell
Lauren Szigeti
Aimee Wilson

Rumoured
Ally Morphett
Brenna Tarrant
Lisa Steane

Hawthorn Signed 3 Rumoured 1
Zoe Barbakos
Sophie Locke
Bridget Deed

Rumoured
Janet Baird

Port Power Signed 0
Nil
 

Teen Wolf

Norm Smith Medallist
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Since expansion essentially comes down to a distribution of talent, it's worth looking at the state of play with regards to the top AFLW players and from where they originate.

Here are SOO teams I've picked, mostly based on the season just gone. In the case of two players being hard to split, I was inclined to favour the one that would give a more diverse representation of clubs.

aflw_soo_2022.png



VICTORIA
Melbourne, by no coincidence, have the most players with 6 pretty easy picks. At one stage I was debating on having Mithen as their 7th or replacing her with Bruton, or going with a young'un like McKenzie or Rowbottom. Settled on giving St Kilda a go instead, considering the exceptional circumstances, via an imaginary 22nd spot to Patrikios (but note the selection of Stevens who, like Prespakis, I still have listed with Carlton).

WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Fremantle with 9 players, West Coast with 8. Obviously the raw numbers don't tell the whole story, but even while giving some Eagles the benefit of the doubt (that said, it's not like Roux has demanded selection) they've still fared better than I expected (check out QLD to see what I thought it'd be like). Ultimately though it's the WA players that don't have FRE or WCE next to their name which have played the largest part in defining the league's early history in the west.

QUEENSLAND
Brisbane with 13, Gold Coast with 5. At best I could've squeezed another Sun in here or there, whereas a fit Lutkins would be an instant inclusion.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Very strong in some areas but a steep drop off at around the 15th player, this SA lineup is definitely still the weakest of the top 4, which the "only cos they had a whole state to themselves" crowd don't want to hear but it's true. Port Adelaide supporters probably don't want to hear it either, though it'll be inescapably apparent over the next few years. The good news is SA have done quite well at the recent Under 18 nationals, so the Power's timing could turn out to be perfect. Nevertheless, heed the cautionary tale of Geelong (among others): promising young players will leave if the team isn't competitive before long.

NSW/ACT
GWS have a reputation of relying on players from interstate, yet it would seem they've taken no more quality than they've surrendered. Admittedly, a lot of the talent listed there is purely a matter of origin rather than development, but I'd be encouraged by the bigger picture if I was the Sydney Swans looking at that lineup.

TAS/NT
11 Tasmanians on an AFLW list. 3 less than the Irish. But almost 3-times more than the number of Tasmanians in this year's Women's National Cricket League final between Tas and SA.

And while it's true the Crows also a had territory to themselves initially, let's be real: Thompson and Ponter aren't turning a poor/average team into a good one (though maybe one day in Ponter's case), while Angela Foley (who's actually from Shepparton, like Beth Mooney) played no part in Adelaide's 3rd/most impressive flag.

CONCLUSION (18 TEAMS IS TOO MANY??)
WA has lost a good portion to the east coast, but very little has come back the other way. The QLD clubs have access to a deep pool, but the Suns have too often lost out to the Lions and other sports. SA seems to be rapidly improving, but the established team is better equipped to capitalise on that. The AFL along with new struggling teams can and should do more to address these issues to ensure a better spread of talent which, I repeat, is essential for a successful expansion. But it takes a broad vision rather than reactive measures (see the lead up to last year's draft, when the AFL scrambled to stifle an attempted coup by Brisbane*).

Further, as long as we have scenarios where Carlton pass up the opportunity to draft Ashleigh Riddell and St Kilda do likewise with Tara Bohanna--to name just a few of many examples--the problem of an unbalanced league should be attributed less to the size of the talent pool and much more to the competency of the talent scouts!

*I will explain this attempted coup in a thread where it seems more relevant, in a post which isn't already long enough, whenever that opportunity arises.
 

Mitchell Madness

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It is funny - % being big or not is entirely dependent on the original figure

A 400% increase from $5 to $20 isn't in the same ball park as a 10% increase from $1000000 to $1100000

But you know, the girls are greedy 🙄
The minimum wage given it is still a part time job is pretty good.
It also allows the girls to study.
Remember, it is season 7, not 70.

The next few years as it goes full time the wage will go up substantially, but still need to be patient
 

keepswimming

Rookie
Jul 28, 2016
46
50
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Since expansion essentially comes down to a distribution of talent, it's worth looking at the state of play with regards to the top AFLW players and from where they originate.

Here are SOO teams I've picked, mostly based on the season just gone. In the case of two players being hard to split, I was inclined to favour the one that would give a more diverse representation of clubs.

View attachment 1384038


VICTORIA
Melbourne, by no coincidence, have the most players with 6 pretty easy picks. At one stage I was debating on having Mithen as their 7th or replacing her with Bruton, or going with a young'un like McKenzie or Rowbottom. Settled on giving St Kilda a go instead, considering the exceptional circumstances, via an imaginary 22nd spot to Patrikios (but note the selection of Stevens who, like Prespakis, I still have listed with Carlton).

WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Fremantle with 9 players, West Coast with 8. Obviously the raw numbers don't tell the whole story, but even while giving some Eagles the benefit of the doubt (that said, it's not like Roux has demanded selection) they've still fared better than I expected (check out QLD to see what I thought it'd be like). Ultimately though it's the WA players that don't have FRE or WCE next to their name which have played the largest part in defining the league's early history in the west.

QUEENSLAND
Brisbane with 13, Gold Coast with 5. At best I could've squeezed another Sun in here or there, whereas a fit Lutkins would be an instant inclusion.

SOUTH AUSTRALIA
Very strong in some areas but a steep drop off at around the 15th player, this SA lineup is definitely still the weakest of the top 4, which the "only cos they had a whole state to themselves" crowd don't want to hear but it's true. Port Adelaide supporters probably don't want to hear it either, though it'll be inescapably apparent over the next few years. The good news is SA have done quite well at the recent Under 18 nationals, so the Power's timing could turn out to be perfect. Nevertheless, heed the cautionary tale of Geelong (among others): promising young players will leave if the team isn't competitive before long.

NSW/ACT
GWS have a reputation of relying on players from interstate, yet it would seem they've taken no more quality than they've surrendered. Admittedly, a lot of the talent listed there is purely a matter of origin rather than development, but I'd be encouraged by the bigger picture if I was the Sydney Swans looking at that lineup.

TAS/NT
11 Tasmanians on an AFLW list. 3 less than the Irish. But almost 3-times more than the number of Tasmanians in this year's Women's National Cricket League final between Tas and SA.

And while it's true the Crows also a had territory to themselves initially, let's be real: Thompson and Ponter aren't turning a poor/average team into a good one (though maybe one day in Ponter's case), while Angela Foley (who's actually from Shepparton, like Beth Mooney) played no part in Adelaide's 3rd/most impressive flag.

CONCLUSION (18 TEAMS IS TOO MANY??)
WA has lost a good portion to the east coast, but very little has come back the other way. The QLD clubs have access to a deep pool, but the Suns have too often lost out to the Lions and other sports. SA seems to be rapidly improving, but the established team is better equipped to capitalise on that. The AFL along with new struggling teams can and should do more to address these issues to ensure a better spread of talent which, I repeat, is essential for a successful expansion. But it takes a broad vision rather than reactive measures (see the lead up to last year's draft, when the AFL scrambled to stifle an attempted coup by Brisbane*).

Further, as long as we have scenarios where Carlton pass up the opportunity to draft Ashleigh Riddell and St Kilda do likewise with Tara Bohanna--to name just a few of many examples--the problem of an unbalanced league should be attributed less to the size of the talent pool and much more to the competency of the talent scouts!

*I will explain this attempted coup in a thread where it seems more relevant, in a post which isn't already long enough, whenever that opportunity arises.
Lot of work gone in to that. Great job. Im thinking WA v Victoria final if they all played a round robin. They are the two strongest, with Vic to win by a small margin.
Interesting that WA dont seem to be getting their top players back from victoria obviously enjoy their respective clubs.
 

ams4crows

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Apr 22, 2007
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That SA side is chock full of premiership players? It's basically the crows team + - a few players That's a great state team and I have no doubt would do well. Obviously the Vic team is Elite, but that SA team with those players right now would be super competitive
 

Biggie

Credits and Synergy
Sep 28, 2005
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Essendon. Building quite the list
 

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Teen Wolf

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That SA side is chock full of premiership players? It's basically the crows team + - a few players That's a great state team and I have no doubt would do well. Obviously the Vic team is Elite, but that SA team with those players right now would be super competitive
It's clearly a weaker lineup than what the Adelaide Crows have, unless you think it's a fluke that their one grand final loss happened with Randall on the sideline. The additions don't make up for the exclusion of her, Ponter and Thompson. Even though we all enjoy Chloe Scheer.

I would have 8 SA players (2 of the defenders, 3 of the mids and 3 of the forwards) in a combined SA/WA or SA/QLD side, taking nothing away from the 2 premiership medals duly earned by the likes of Hannah Button.

Interesting that WA dont seem to be getting their top players back from victoria obviously enjoy their respective clubs.
The issue of the day, as it turns out, in light of the Cain announcement (not that she's on the same level as a number of those who have already left).
 

Teen Wolf

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Slow news day in Adelaide? Unless this is some sort of wink at the audience like "get ready for an announcement tomorrow", what a waste of 2 minutes of air time!

 

cmndstab

Hall of Famer
Apr 29, 2008
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Slow news day in Adelaide? Unless this is some sort of wink at the audience like "get ready for an announcement tomorrow", what a waste of 2 minutes of air time!



Definitely just a slow news day.

You mentioned you would have 8 SA players in a combined SA/WA or SA/QLD side, and I think that's pretty much right (although I suspect you're overlooking Chelsea Biddell who had a fantastic season). I can see an argument for maybe 10 or 11 players from SA at most.

Obviously Randall is a massive part of Adelaide's success, and Ponter has performed in grand finals. But by and large Adelaide's success has been built on a core group of a few exceptional players (Phillips, Randall, Hatchard, Marinoff, Allan) and a handful of useful role players (Jones, Woodland, Ponter, Rajcic, Biddell, Martin). Around half the side each week is generally just filled with whoever happens to be on our list that year, and honestly, it probably doesn't really matter who is there as long as they're base-level competent.

You mentioned Hannah Button, perfect example. She averaged around 6 touches this year, not much value provided there, but she still played every game. Justine Mules had her weakest season since 2017 (being played out of position didn't help). We had the likes of Jasmyn Hewett (3 games), Jasmine Simmons (4 games), Lisa Whiteley (6 games), and Ailish Considine (10 games) playing this year, who could generously be described as underwhelming. And there were plenty of players in the ilk of Najwa Allen, Hannah Munyard, Nikki Gore, Maddi Newman etc who are all fine players but aren't likely to end up on an AA list any time soon.

You could probably replace our bottom ten players with those from any other list and it wouldn't make much difference.
 
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Teen Wolf

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You mentioned you would have 8 SA players in a combined SA/WA or SA/QLD side, and I think that's pretty much right (although I suspect you're overlooking Chelsea Biddell who had a fantastic season).
I counted Biddell on the strength of ball use compared to Cuthbertson and T.Randall (all 3 of whom would be leapfrogged by a fit Lutkins). Applying that criteria consistently would also mean Smith and Ellenger are ahead of the SA small defender candidate (Priest atm).

C.Randall, Schleicher, Koenen, Grider and Allan are all locks, leaving no room for Rajcic, so that's how I got just the 2 SA defenders.

Obviously Randall is a massive part of Adelaide's success, and Ponter has performed in grand finals. But by and large Adelaide's success has been built on a core group of a few exceptional players (Phillips, Randall, Hatchard, Marinoff, Allan) and a handful of useful role players (Jones, Woodland, Ponter, Rajcic, Biddell, Martin). Around half the side each week is generally just filled with whoever happens to be on our list that year, and honestly, it probably doesn't really matter who is there as long as they're base-level competent.

You mentioned Hannah Button, perfect example. She averaged around 6 touches this year, not much value provided there, but she still played every game. Justine Mules had her weakest season since 2017 (being played out of position didn't help). We had the likes of Jasmine Simmons (4 games), Jasmyn Hewett (4 games), Lisa Whiteley (6 games), and Ailish Considine (10 games) playing this year, who could generously be described as underwhelming. And there were plenty of players in the ilk of Najwa Allen, Hannah Munyard, Nikki Gore, Maddi Newman etc who are all fine players but aren't likely to end up on an AA list any time soon.

You could probably replace our bottom ten players with those from any other list and it wouldn't make much difference.
Well I certainly subscribe to the notion that, at any given moment, every team lives/dies by their top 6. But let us not forget Adelaide's success used to be much more dependent on, say, Courtney Cramey than it was on the seemingly replaceable Sarah Allan and Anne Hatchard.

The top 6 changes over time, and if the team's source for talent becomes too heavily compromised in some way: not enough of their bottom-tier players will develop into useful players; not enough of their useful players will develop into exceptional players.
 

FoopyNerd

Debutant
Jan 23, 2022
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Slow news day in Adelaide? Unless this is some sort of wink at the audience like "get ready for an announcement tomorrow", what a waste of 2 minutes of air time!


Would love to know whether this was a fluke or if 7 actually had a good source that Phillips was on the move.
 

HugeJohnson

I have one
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Expansion clubs signed players and seriously rumoured at afl.com.au

Essendon Signed 5
Georgia Nanscawen
Maddy Prespakis
Bonnie Toogood
Caitlin Sargent

Sydney Swans Signed 11 Rumoured 3
Ruby Sargent-Wilson
Zoe Hurrell
Bec Privitelli
Ella Heads
Montana Beruldsen
Maddy Collier
Molly Eastman
Sarah Ford
Alice Mitchell
Lauren Szigeti
Aimee Wilson

Rumoured
Ally Morphett
Brenna Tarrant
Lisa Steane

Hawthorn Signed 3 Rumoured 1
Zoe Barbakos
Sophie Locke
Bridget Deed

Rumoured
Janet Baird

Port Power Signed 0
Nil
😂 Bit salty there?
 

Walshawk

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Mar 24, 2017
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It's also worth noting that next season will almost certainly be longer than the one just gone. It's reasonable to expect your pay to go up if you're working more hours, doing more training sessions, taking leave from your main job for more days, etc.
Reckon 12 week season is likely for the next three years under current broadcast deal. Plus three weeks of finals = GF on 3/12. BBL starts the following week so that will suit Ch7.
 

TheNextPicken

He can go on the left
Oct 3, 2013
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Where do we reckon she's heading off to? Gold Coast? Port Adelaide? Sydney?

There'd be at least 12 sides that she'd get a walk-up start in I think.
 

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