List Mgmt. OFFICIAL: Dangerfield + Pick 50 for Picks 9, 28 and Dean Gore

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Claude Balls

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I think that Horlin-Smith is drastically under rated on this board. He's not as pretty or as flashy as a few others but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he ends up becoming an elite midfielder. He won't be one of those players who has a break out year though. He'll just keep improving year by year and eventually people will start saying to themselves "geez that blokes better than I thought he was".

I'm extremely confident about this bloke and people can hold me to it if they like!
George certainly does nothing quickly, I agree. He could be elite by the time he's 45:D

Just couldn't resist this extremely simple and juvenile joke.
 

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Turbocat

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Our midfield as average at best. Let's hope Danger wants to come to a team where he can make a real difference.

I've been impressed with Caddy. Duncan is very good. Motlop is elite when he plays.

However, I'm not seeing future All Australian players in Hartman, GHS, Lang, JJ, Murdoch, Guthrie etc. One player may get to that level but as a young group they're not super impressive compared to GWS, GC, Port, Bris
It depends what impresses. Gws, Gc & Port have a heap of early picks. Brisbane lost several players and replaced them. Id stack our up against their's.
But really we are judging on the obvious talent ,not what development can bring forth. To say you do not see AA from players that have played as few games as these tells me you want instant talent or early picks. Few at Gc or Gws looked much better when getting beaten yet once they started to win , they looked better. Guthrie 64 , GWS 33 , Lang 1 , Murdoch 42 , Hartman 5 , Jansen 0... very early and and really AA has a lot to do with the strength of the side you play in. In 07 we had that many AA players yet dare I say look at most of them with less than 50 /75 games.

I have no issue with the guys we have , I agree we lack 2-4 early picks and its whether the development of our picks can elevate them to that level.
 

Partridge

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But really we are judging on the obvious talent ,not what development can bring forth. To say you do not see AA from players that have played as few games as these tells me you want instant talent or early picks. Few at Gc or Gws looked much better when getting beaten yet once they started to win , they looked better. Guthrie 64 , GWS 33 , Lang 1 , Murdoch 42 , Hartman 5 , Jansen 0... very early and and really AA has a lot to do with the strength of the side you play in. In 07 we had that many AA players yet dare I say look at most of them with less than 50 /75 games.

I have no issue with the guys we have , I agree we lack 2-4 early picks and its whether the development of our picks can elevate them to that level.
I really need to crunch the numbers on those players in Round 1, 2007 and see how it looks. I'm not convinced the current midfielders we have are that much inferior. Perhaps they are. The only thing I'm sure on is we're far more impatient, and we're very eager to throw development out the window for quick fixes (typified by the delusion that Dangerfield is signed, sealed and delivered already).
 

dazbroncos

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I really need to crunch the numbers on those players in Round 1, 2007 and see how it looks. I'm not convinced the current midfielders we have are that much inferior. Perhaps they are. The only thing I'm sure on is we're far more impatient, and we're very eager to throw development out the window for quick fixes (typified by the delusion that Dangerfield is signed, sealed and delivered already).
The quick fix… I don't get it. All the 99 - 03 draft picks didn't hit their straps until 07 - 11. WE have been up and we are still thereabouts… ish…

Transition is exactly that - a change. Not sure how the instant gratification crowd can expect the status quo to be maintained thru change.

No doubt - Danger would be a great addition to help smooth the transition. But even if its a done deal, which I would like but seriously doubt, its still 10 months away.

GO Catters
 

Jimmy Yamazaki

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The quick fix… I don't get it. All the 99 - 03 draft picks didn't hit their straps until 07 - 11. WE have been up and we are still thereabouts… ish…

Transition is exactly that - a change. Not sure how the instant gratification crowd can expect the status quo to be maintained thru change.

No doubt - Danger would be a great addition to help smooth the transition. But even if its a done deal, which I would like but seriously doubt, its still 10 months away.

GO Catters
If this is the thinking, we mine as well have done a full rebuild and got some top draft picks instead.
I can't see the point of having SJ or Stokes then in the midfield if it doesn't do anything to help speed our development of the kids(as we have been told the oldies are supposed to help with) if it will take the normal time anyway. We're only shooting ourselves in the foot, since they most likely won't be around for the next flag push. Then we have to replace those 2 with 2 new player with most likely 0 games.

Ditto the back line. When GHS, Guthrie come on, Lonners and Rivers will be 1 year left or already retired. So the backline will be inexperienced and we start the cycle again, and we'll be again lopsided because we didn't develop these guys together.

Play all the kids, and then get them experience as a core group, but bottom out and get a few top 10 picks, rather then lopsided as it will be. I mean we aren't a flag threat anyway and we haven't really been since 2011 so why the song and dance? Why draft Hmac, Rivers and Clark?

My thinking is the club is looking for the quick fix, so I think the message has filted down to the supporters. I can't think of any other reason then to draft them, other then they're trying to get another flag. Then we as supporters want everything faster, so we can get the flag in the first place.
 

Jon Douglas

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We are committed now to the type of transition we elected to follow when CS came to the club with his plans to get us back to the top. So too late to change horses in mid stream.

there was a lot to be said to trade out our stars as they got older and get higher draft picks while losing more games. But by now we would have basically completely renewed the list and many would have the senior games to be ready for the next tilt.

But would the supporters have taken it well that we got rid of the players early who won us that flag we so desperately wanted ?

Would the players forced out have accepted that fate easily.

Would it have destroyed or hurt the culture of the club that we have worked so hard to get right ?

Would players at other clubs that we chase think - well if I go to Geelong I will get a few years then they will probably pension me off to some bottom club who needs experienced players to help build a better culture and team - and get some success so their fans are not cutting their wrists ?

It is a complicated business. Maybe we endorse the Buddhist business model - the Middle Path ? Do it sometimes and not do it other times - on a case by case situation.

Anyway its too late now - by year's end we see Kelly, Enright and HMac go - and then there is only Mackie, Stokes, Bartel, Lonergan and SJ left (Selwood may have been part of the group but his very young age in 2007 makes him the exception) of our gun side of 2007 that gave us 3 Premierships.

Most sides have 2-4 30 year olds playing in their senior side and their departure can be worked out far easier than 5-8 30 year olds. Dealing with a few 30+ year olds in the team is not a transition.
 

Partridge

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Play all the kids, and then get them experience as a core group, but bottom out and get a few top 10 picks, rather then lopsided as it will be. I mean we aren't a flag threat anyway and we haven't really been since 2011 so why the song and dance? Why draft Hmac, Rivers and Clark?

My thinking is the club is looking for the quick fix, so I think the message has filted down to the supporters. I can't think of any other reason then to draft them, other then they're trying to get another flag. Then we as supporters want everything faster, so we can get the flag in the first place.
Exactly. Rivers is a selection you could probably defend; a slow start in 2013, but very good last season. McIntosh is a lot harder to defend and Clark is still a unknown quantity. Not sure we need to 'bottom out', but I am convinced they could have given more games to younger players in the last couple of years. We seem to have an each-way philosophy about player and team development that has permeated everything now. It covers having young players starring in the VFL who then get cut (Schroder), picking half ruckmen/half key forwards because apparently having more 'almost' players is better than developing one good one, and keeping a ton of veterans and injured players on the list, under the guise of building for the future.
 

Partridge

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But would the supporters have taken it well that we got rid of the players early who won us that flag we so desperately wanted ?
The only problem is the club doesn't consult the supporters and I'm guessing wouldn't even consider what we think. To an extent they shouldn't either. Imagine taking the advice flowing freely from here. They need to do what's best for the long term chances of the club. If that means moving on veterans who are finished, tough.

Would the players forced out have accepted that fate easily.
No they wouldn't have. No one is going to walk away from the money players make now. That's why they can't be trusted. It's why they habitually lie about their injuries. It's also why the clubs can't afford to be sentimental.

Would it have destroyed or hurt the culture of the club that we have worked so hard to get right ?
That culture doesn't exist anymore anyway. 2007 was 8 years ago now. That particular culture might have existed then, but the coaches and most of the playing group are all different now. Does paying McIntosh a ton of cash to sit in what must be very comfortable medical rooms for all of 2013 improve the culture of the club? Or watching Johnson get suspension after suspension without any punishment from the club?

Would players at other clubs that we chase think - well if I go to Geelong I will get a few years then they will probably pension me off to some bottom club who needs experienced players to help build a better culture and team - and get some success so their fans are not cutting their wrists ?
I'm guessing players from other clubs would be absolutely queueing up to get to Geelong. Get in Scott's good books and you won't ever be dropped. Get a serious injury and you'll be maintained on the list indefinitely.
 

dazbroncos

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Exactly. Rivers is a selection you could probably defend; a slow start in 2013, but very good last season. McIntosh is a lot harder to defend and Clark is still a unknown quantity. Not sure we need to 'bottom out', but I am convinced they could have given more games to younger players in the last couple of years. We seem to have an each-way philosophy about player and team development that has permeated everything now. It covers having young players starring in the VFL who then get cut (Schroder), picking half ruckmen/half key forwards because apparently having more 'almost' players is better than developing one good one, and keeping a ton of veterans and injured players on the list, under the guise of building for the future.
With the clear lack of a # 1 ruck, getting HMAC was a move to fill the #1 role. Clearly thus far HMAC specifically has not worked but you can't fault the club for trying to get a player in to fill that position.

And he still has 1 year to go - granted not that im holding my breath for him to come good - but if we can get 15 games out of him that will help us.

Go Catters
 

Jon Douglas

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The only problem is the club doesn't consult the supporters and I'm guessing wouldn't even consider what we think. To an extent they shouldn't either. Imagine taking the advice flowing freely from here. They need to do what's best for the long term chances of the club. If that means moving on veterans who are finished, tough.



No they wouldn't have. No one is going to walk away from the money players make now. That's why they can't be trusted. It's why they habitually lie about their injuries. It's also why the clubs can't afford to be sentimental.



That culture doesn't exist anymore anyway. 2007 was 8 years ago now. That particular culture might have existed then, but the coaches and most of the playing group are all different now. Does paying McIntosh a ton of cash to sit in what must be very comfortable medical rooms for all of 2013 improve the culture of the club? Or watching Johnson get suspension after suspension without any punishment from the club?



I'm guessing players from other clubs would be absolutely queueing up to get to Geelong. Get in Scott's good books and you won't ever be dropped. Get a serious injury and you'll be maintained on the list indefinitely.
I tend to agree with much of what you write generally. I think that too many supporters wear rose (maybe Blue and White) glasses. No team or club is perfect. That is what you strive for although you can never each it. That is the game being played.

But I disagree with you on the culture of a club - and professionalism of a club. That has to be the main priority. You can have the best footy players in the land and without a professional culture that has integrity it is unlikely you will win the flag.

Money counts for a lot to a lot of people. And yes players move from one club to get a better deal. But when you are out on the field and you have to go run back into an on coming pack, knowing you are seriously going to get crunched - you are not thinking of the money in that split second to go or not to go.

I would suggest it is about team - it is about club and maybe pride in performance. You need to develop a good team culture that has everyone on the same page regardless of what they are paid. If you have a crap culture at the club this can impact on a player's performance.

I can tell you that if I thought the club did not care about me - I did not respect the players around me - I probably would not run back into that pack.

They do it because they believe in the cause, the team and the club IMO. That is what a good culture can do for a club. It can make a good team into a great team.

Yes culture changes over time so you have to be ever vigilant to keep creating and building on the past culture - to keep making it better.

Its no surprise to me that we performed much better than we had when Costa and Cook came to the club. And Thompson was also good as he cared about the players and they knew it.

I saw a replay of Warren Treadrea interview last night. He was asked about Chocko Williams and Tredrea said Chocko was seriously concerned about the welfare of his players and he would bleed for them. And that made the players unite and play better as a team - and in 2004 they won their first premiership.

yes footy is a business but that does not mean that clubs do not have cultures and that culture makes no difference. It makes all the difference IMO.
 

FredLeDeux

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I tend to agree with much of what you write generally. I think that too many supporters wear rose (maybe Blue and White) glasses. No team or club is perfect. That is what you strive for although you can never each it. That is the game being played.

But I disagree with you on the culture of a club - and professionalism of a club. That has to be the main priority. You can have the best footy players in the land and without a professional culture that has integrity it is unlikely you will win the flag.

Money counts for a lot to a lot of people. And yes players move from one club to get a better deal. But when you are out on the field and you have to go run back into an on coming pack, knowing you are seriously going to get crunched - you are not thinking of the money in that split second to go or not to go.

I would suggest it is about team - it is about club and maybe pride in performance. You need to develop a good team culture that has everyone on the same page regardless of what they are paid. If you have a crap culture at the club this can impact on a player's performance.

I can tell you that if I thought the club did not care about me - I did not respect the players around me - I probably would not run back into that pack.

They do it because they believe in the cause, the team and the club IMO. That is what a good culture can do for a club. It can make a good team into a great team.

Yes culture changes over time so you have to be ever vigilant to keep creating and building on the past culture - to keep making it better.

Its no surprise to me that we performed much better than we had when Costa and Cook came to the club. And Thompson was also good as he cared about the players and they knew it.

I saw a replay of Warren Treadrea interview last night. He was asked about Chocko Williams and Tredrea said Chocko was seriously concerned about the welfare of his players and he would bleed for them. And that made the players unite and play better as a team - and in 2004 they won their first premiership.

yes footy is a business but that does not mean that clubs do not have cultures and that culture makes no difference. It makes all the difference IMO.
Players care about and play for their team-mates and their coach, not the club.
 

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Willo_

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Son of God is willing to shout a couple of meet-up regulars a night on the piss if Danger doesn't play for Geelong and stays in Adelaide in 2016. I'd hope for his wallet's sake that he knows more than us!
As one of said regulars who will benefit from this I'm not overly concerned either way anymore :D
 

Jon Douglas

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Players care about and play for their team-mates and their coach, not the club.
Maybe you will think this a bit of a technicality Fred - but who provides the set up so the players can meet, train and play together? Who employs the coach ? Who provides the support, whether medical, psychological, dietary or skill enhancement ? Etc, etc, etc.

The club. Without the club all the things that go into making the team - team mates that the players play for (or coach as the case may be) could not exist without what the club brings to the table. There are no team mates or coach without the club. So whether they are playing just for their team mates or the coach - they are playing for the club whether they recognise it as important or not.

And I read on another thread someone quoting Moons saying he just could wait to get back to the club. Sure he might not like all aspects of the club - but it provided the environments for whatever reason/s he just wanted to be back at the GFC. But I do get the feeling he really loves the club - and he played for his team mates, his coach and the club.

And it is the culture of the club that can bring the players close enough together to want to play for each other. And the club, and by that I mean everything that makes up the club (and that would be hundreds of things and people) is needed to create that culture that works to bring all these things together to get team to play for each other.

Players might play for a number of things - each player being slightly different in their motivation. Maybe such things as success, money, the fans, to belong ....... the coach and their team mates. Maybe some players play for all these things while others say just for their team mates only. Then there will be some in between these two polarities.

But in the end everything is linked to what the Club brings to the table and provides the players. Whether the player/s acknowledge this or not.
 
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I hope I'm not intruding, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents as an Adelaidian since some of you are asking for the vibe over here in SA.

The Dangerfield situation is a curious one, and it will literally be the only thing in the paper all year. The rest will be about Port betraying SA. How we're greedy pricks for wanting our fair share of AO money and the general hate spins on Port. I'm not really looking forward to that.

But the feeling with Danger is very 50/50 at the moment. A lot of people in Adelaide are nervous given the Crows recent history in being unable to hold onto top players (Tippett, Gunston, Bock and Davis) which stems from a bad club culture. It's honestly a flip of a coin and it entirely depends on how the Crows perform in 2015. Danger (and the Crows) have repeatedly said (to justify Sando's brutal sacking) that they want to play finals. Missing out isn't good enough. I 100% believe if the Crows don't make the 8, Danger is out of there. Where he goes depends on who can table the best offer. I'm not talking about money. Finals footy and premierships are what he really wants. If you can give him that, he'll come.

If Geelong have another strong year (which I believe they will), and preferably win a final, then there's a good chance he'll come. It appears Geelong and Hawthorn are the two most likely teams he will move to if everything goes pear shaped for the Crows. An outsiders chance for Collingwood. By that I mean 0.05%. But it could happen.

The flip side is if they make finals. If they make the 8 I'm not 100% convinced he will stay. But he probably will. I think the Crows are gunning/ aiming to win a final. Preferably even play one at AO. We (Port) showed them up last year. They're really hurting from it. A lot of people (in SA) believe the Crows have underperformed the last 2 years. I personally think they're on par with where they're at. An average team with a substantial amount of average players. Plus their defence looks awful on paper. Take out the two AA's in Talia and Smith and it's one of the worst in the comp IMO.

I personally think they won't make the 8 and he'll go. Just my gut feel. They have a really easy start in their fixture but the road home is really tough. They're aren't strong starters either. Can see them dropping winnable games throughout 2015. Either way, it's a very tough ask to put a first time Head Coach in Phil Walsh in the hot seat and play Russian Roulette with their best player.
 

Vdubs

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Our midfield as average at best. Let's hope Danger wants to come to a team where he can make a real difference.

I've been impressed with Caddy. Duncan is very good. Motlop is elite when he plays.

However, I'm not seeing future All Australian players in Hartman, GHS, Lang, JJ, Murdoch, Guthrie etc. One player may get to that level but as a young group they're not super impressive compared to GWS, GC, Port, Bris
True.
 

FredLeDeux

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Don't think a backline with an average age of 30+ is our biggest issue?
No our biggest immediate issue is our midfield deficit compared with the other top sides - it's the main reason we lost to Sydney, Port and Freo last season, and that's why it was the club's first drafting priority.
 

TEDDY24INC

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If this is the thinking, we mine as well have done a full rebuild and got some top draft picks instead.
I can't see the point of having SJ or Stokes then in the midfield if it doesn't do anything to help speed our development of the kids(as we have been told the oldies are supposed to help with) if it will take the normal time anyway. We're only shooting ourselves in the foot, since they most likely won't be around for the next flag push. Then we have to replace those 2 with 2 new player with most likely 0 games.

Ditto the back line. When GHS, Guthrie come on, Lonners and Rivers will be 1 year left or already retired. So the backline will be inexperienced and we start the cycle again, and we'll be again lopsided because we didn't develop these guys together.

Play all the kids, and then get them experience as a core group, but bottom out and get a few top 10 picks, rather then lopsided as it will be. I mean we aren't a flag threat anyway and we haven't really been since 2011 so why the song and dance? Why draft Hmac, Rivers and Clark?

My thinking is the club is looking for the quick fix, so I think the message has filted down to the supporters. I can't think of any other reason then to draft them, other then they're trying to get another flag. Then we as supporters want everything faster, so we can get the flag in the first place.
Completely untrue, 2013 we were in it up to our eyeballs, last year a few injuries and suspensions got us
 

Jimmy Yamazaki

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Completely untrue, 2013 we were in it up to our eyeballs, last year a few injuries and suspensions got us
No we weren't. We won 1 game over a team not in top 4, hardly a threat and yeah before you mention it, Hawks where our bunnies at the time (we sat on 11 strait going into that game) and we coughed up a 20 point lead at 3qtr time and lost after only kicking 1 goal in the last qtr. That is team that is not a threat.

We where out as soon as we lost to Freo which makes us only slightly better then this year. And we lost to them at home our fortress, you can't read it any other way. Just not good enough.
 
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Boxhead_31

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No our biggest immediate issue is our midfield deficit compared with the other top sides - it's the main reason we lost to Sydney, Port and Freo last season, and that's why it was the club's first drafting priority.
How quickly can draftees help out in the midfield compared to defence?
 

TEDDY24INC

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No we weren't. We won 1 game over a team not in top 4, hardly a threat and yeah before you mention it, Hawks where our bunnies at the time (we sat on 11 strait going into that game) and we coughed up a 20 point lead at 3qtr time and lost after only kicking 1 goal in the last qtr. That is team that is not a threat.

We where out as soon as we lost to Freo which makes us only slightly better then this year. And we lost to them at home our fortress, you can't read it any other way. Just not good enough.
We never should have lost the freo game... Once again, an unfit and missing Hawkins killed us, but we had enough opportunities but couldn't make them pay in the last 1/4. There were a range of factors that killed us in 13, not resting players, simmonds playing into Freo's hands (would have prefered to play them at the G). Our form turned in the last half of the final against Port, we took that form into the hawks prelim and had their measure but alas, the week they had off got them over the line. We beat all of the top 4 from 2013 during the year, we were good enough... 2013 was a massive lost opportunity
 

Turbocat

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With the clear lack of a # 1 ruck, getting HMAC was a move to fill the #1 role. Clearly thus far HMAC specifically has not worked but you can't fault the club for trying to get a player in to fill that position.

And he still has 1 year to go - granted not that im holding my breath for him to come good - but if we can get 15 games out of him that will help us.

Go Catters
I think this fair.
Im sure you know Hmac is not on my Christmas Card list...but the club is the on who chose him with a year left on contract , a high back ended one , a player who had hardly played for three years etc.... but I do not fault them for trying to get a Ottens type replacement. My issue is trusting the number we had , when the three rucks we had on our list were shown thru their playing history to be as brittle as glass. This year it seems they have finally cross over and are now carrying a heavy load of rucks that they should have had 2 years ago. Not having a ruck as a Rookie was just plain silly, even if it was Banjanin or OS or some kid that has missed a shot like Fort, Cameron etc

15 game out Hmac , or Simpson... I guess that achievable. What I do not want is 15 games on a governor , played as pace to ensure no breakdowns.

But why are we straying into rucks in Danger thread?

Unless we are trying to do a St Kilda , which we will not do , we should do our best to get PD. It his age group and experience well lack , its his class we lack..add him to our best side and it will help the younger guys come thru.
 
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