Official List Changes

[Murraj1966]

My goodness, I hate statements like this.

Peake has played 43 games for St Kilda, averaged 17.2 disposals per game and kicked 20 goals.

Polo has played 21 games for St Kilda, averaged 16.4 disposals per game and kicked 7 goals.

Neither is a superstar, but they played their role and were an integral part of and reason for St Kilda's success over the last years (whether one liked them, Ross Lyon, our game plan or anything). Both never pulled back and put their body on the line for St Kilda.

Surely (in particular if we expect them and their teammates to be open and friendly to our representatives at the various functions as sponsor for Tom Ledger) they deserve better than the above from some little internet hero. Mods ?

A bit much Holden, I'm not commenting on them as people I'm commenting on their place in the team which was never anything beyond a role player who used a draft pick on a gamble. Sure if we won the 2010 Grand Final I'd be singing Peake's praises as premiership player but we didn't win and he became a detriment to the team at the end of last year as he wouldn't be around for the next realistic premiership push and he occupied a spot this year that was of no use, only playing one game.

However I will take back Ross Lyon garbage as that may have been worded too strongly, the real intention is to identify all of the delisted players Ross picked up (who were delisted from other clubs for a reason) and to say it's good to see them go is to say it's good to see older average players make way for the potential next Lenny Hayes or something.

I intended no disrespect to them as people and I'm sure they're great guys, I just worded my feelings that I want the delisted "role players" to make room for the next wave of youth a tad strongly.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A bit much Holden, I'm not commenting on them as people I'm commenting on their place in the team which was never anything beyond a role player who used a draft pick on a gamble. Sure if we won the 2010 Grand Final I'd be singing Peake's praises as premiership player but we didn't win and he became a detriment to the team at the end of last year as he wouldn't be around for the next realistic premiership push and he occupied a spot this year that was of no use, only playing one game.

However I will take back Ross Lyon garbage as that may have been worded too strongly, the real intention is to identify all of the delisted players Ross picked up (who were delisted from other clubs for a reason) and to say it's good to see them go is to say it's good to see older average players make way for the potential next Lenny Hayes or something.

I intended no disrespect to them as people and I'm sure they're great guys, I just worded my feelings that I want the delisted "role players" to make room for the next wave of youth a tad strongly.

No doubt Wilkes was delisted for a reason. Lets exterminate him. ( hope I didnt word that too strongly ).
Seriously, I considered Polo as good depth when we got him, and a step up from Eddy and McQualter. He then became pretty useful while Hayes was injured. The youth - ( Cripps/Ledger) played and became injured. Every time Lynch played half of this forum demanded we shoot him or something similar ( from my memory ).
Polo's biggest problem was that he brought his history with him. If he'd been an unknown from the VFL he wouldn't have got half the vitriol.

OK now we have the likes of Saad, Milera, Newnes and Dunnel looking good. ( none of them there last year). We are getting some good footy from Ledger and Cripps. We have Curren looking like he might give it a decent shot, and Ross not far off.
Its clearly time to move him on. Having said that, I still think he'd be good for someone to have on their list for depth. ( Would have been good for Essendon this year ).

 

[Murraj1966]

Other teams have gotten by without picking up other teams cast offs, and many of those are recent premiership teams. I'd rather develop our own list and depth rather than pin our hopes on delisted players.

As for Wilkes it's not a fair comparison when West Coast played him as a backmen and he wasn't good at it (just like when he tried it with us during the year) and then he gets delisted plays as a forward and does well. Now he's a forward with us and has been very good. I'm sure West Coast with their forward woes this year would've played him up forward if they had him.

 

[sammm]

Yet Siposs at 75 (most of the clubs just elevated rookies after that, aside from us - Polo & Gamble)

And there were players in the rookie draft that would have helped with our current issues:
Ruck - Josh Jenkins, Jonathan Giles.
Key Forward - Josh Walker
Tall defender - Cameron Pedersen

oh damn, Giles & Pederson in the rookie draft. now thats a real shame!

 

[Murraj1966]

This is easily number one, I've never been more excited in AFL, not even when Goddard took the mark.

This and all the obvious others like Schwarze in 2004, Harvey in 05 against Adelaide, the Goddard mark and goal and Lenny's big bomb from 50

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Other teams have gotten by without picking up other teams cast offs, and many of those are recent premiership teams. I'd rather develop our own list and depth rather than pin our hopes on delisted players.

As for Wilkes it's not a fair comparison when West Coast played him as a backmen and he wasn't good at it (just like when he tried it with us during the year) and then he gets delisted plays as a forward and does well. Now he's a forward with us and has been very good. I'm sure West Coast with their forward woes this year would've played him up forward if they had him.

Something Watters said was along the lines of StKilda picked him up to play in defense.
There are plenty of players out there who are castoff from other clubs. Some work better than others.
But last year we were really scraping the barrel for midfielders. Blame poor recruiting in the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

Under Pelchan we now know what other clubs have known for some time. It is possible to grab a ready made midfielder. What we've done this year is what Lyon should have done in 2009.
Mind you of all our recruits, in the last year I dont think any of them could have come in and played 22 games the way Polo could have.
But by rotating them through the squad it worked pretty well.
We now have the bigger problem of getting some talls. I prefer that we have a shot at state level guys who for whatever reason missed the draft, but have continued to develop. The only castoff that could be much use would be a backup ruck like Angus Graham. ( ie pure depth ).

 

[Murraj1966]

It'd be great if we already had some state level rucks on a verbal contract that they'll play with us next year and then we could spend the trade period trying to get Koby Stevens out of West Coast.

I wonder if we could do a trade for one of GWS or Gold Coasts young talls involving an older player.

 

[maanco]

Ben Brown, Kyal Hartigan, Jack Frost, Callum Sinclair all missed the draft for various reasons.

How did they go this year in their respective leagues

 

[Squizz]

Ben Brown made the Tassie state team and Hartigan has had a very good year with Werribee (evidently the Saints considered him last year). I didn't rate Sinclair when he was at Port last year. Not really sure he's set the world on fire in the WAFL (16 games, 26 goals, average of 5 marks and 8 hitouts). Don't know the other bloke.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

The four delistings are of those that Pelchen etc believe have no currency in trade negotiations.

No doubt there are more to come off the main and rookie lists, but with trade period coming up, all the players they believe may have some value, to another club, have been retained, until trade negotiations are finished.

At the conclusion of this, we will have hopefully traded several , finalise our list and then will advise some players, that they are not to follow on in 2013.

Whilst we all acknowledge that a number of players have reached their time and need to move on, I am with other posters on here, appreciative of all that they gave to St Kilda. They may, or may not, have achieved their complete personal goals, but are proudly members of the long tradition of St Kilda. Good luck to each of them in the future.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Ben Brown made the Tassie state team and Hartigan has had a very good year with Werribee (evidently the Saints considered him last year). I didn't rate Sinclair when he was at Port last year. Not really sure he's set the world on fire in the WAFL (16 games, 26 goals, average of 5 marks and 8 hitouts). Don't know the other bloke.

Brown was among the best and kicked three goals in his last home away game, before being beaten by a shortarse ruck in finals ( comment that he was good but ran out of steam ).
So yeah, lets just grab Brown ( Rookie ) and Hartigan ( late pick ).
Are you reading this Pelchan or Pelican or whatever your name is?

 

[sammm]

Brown was among the best and kicked three goals in his last home away game, before being beaten by a shortarse ruck in finals ( comment that he was good but ran out of steam ).
So yeah, lets just grab Brown ( Rookie ) and Hartigan ( late pick ).
Are you reading this Pelchan or Pelican or whatever your name is?

maybe you should send him an email.

and you might as well ask him why he didn't rookie brown and hartigan last year

 

[Squizz]

why he didn't rookie brown

Brown was injured last year.

Not sure about Hartigan, although he'd only just turned 20 last year (the club might not have felt he was an instant solution to Dawson leaving). The extra year of development (experience/strength) probably puts him in a much better position to get picked up.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Brown was injured last year.

Not sure about Hartigan, although he'd only just turned 20 last year (the club might not have felt he was an instant solution to Dawson leaving). The extra year of development (experience/strength) probably puts him in a much better position to get picked up.

May have been a choice between Hartigan and Wilkes ( who Watters said was drafted for defense ) and they went the more mature proven path. ( oops ).

 

[Squizz]

May have been a choice between Hartigan and Wilkes ( who Watters said was drafted for defense ) and they went the more mature proven path. ( oops ).

Could be right.

Just would have thought that Hartigan was 5 years younger, and they would have used the rookie list to bolster a weak point in the list (along with the rucks).

Again I come back to Shenton - we'd already picked up Saad, Milera, Dunell and the nearly 20yo Markworth (with Siposs the previous year) to bolster the forward line. It's got me scratching my head as to why we'd go with a another similar type (ahead of addressing other areas).

And then we pick up Staley - who they must have known was going to need at least 2 years of development.

And Wilkes had shown his form (in the WAFL) as a forward anyway!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Could be right.

Just would have thought that Hartigan was 5 years younger, and they would have used the rookie list to bolster a weak point in the list (along with the rucks).

Again I come back to Shenton - we'd already picked up Saad, Milera, Dunell and the nearly 20yo Markworth (with Siposs the previous year) to bolster the forward line. It's got me scratching my head as to why we'd go with a another similar type (ahead of addressing other areas).

And then we pick up Staley - who they must have known was going to need at least 2 years of development.

And Wilkes had shown his form (in the WAFL) as a forward anyway!

Maybe they just read the thing on you tube that say's " Cameron Shenton of the Norwood Football Club is a super quick forward who can play as a wingman. He is a very good kick for goal and exceptional mark on a lead. "

Do Norwood play night games, maybe there was a full moon when the rectuiters were looking at him.

Simpkin isn't the perfect defender, but he pushed the recruiters out of the path of a bullet. If not for him, we'd have been playing Wilkes up back all year and everyone on hear would be screaming for his blood.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Ben Brown made the Tassie state team and Hartigan has had a very good year with Werribee (evidently the Saints considered him last year). I didn't rate Sinclair when he was at Port last year. Not really sure he's set the world on fire in the WAFL (16 games, 26 goals, average of 5 marks and 8 hitouts). Don't know the other bloke.

Jack Frost? haven't you seen the Satna Clause 3...Martin Short.

 

[Squizz]

Maybe they just read the thing on you tube that say's " Cameron Shenton of the Norwood Football Club is a super quick forward who can play as a wingman. He is a very good kick for goal and exceptional mark on a lead. "

Do Norwood play night games, maybe there was a full moon when the rectuiters were looking at him.

I read these comments from his coach.

"I'd like him to impact on the game more."

"He does not make many mistakes and I'd like him to make more. Because he doesn't make many he doesn't get enough of it."

"For two-and-a-half quarters he is as important a player as there is on the ground and then he hides out there somewhere for a quarter-and-a-half."

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Hey can Raph nominate for free trade? If so what will get for him if he goes to another club and also what happens to the players that nominate and then don't get picked up, do they then nominate for the the draft.

 

[Squizz]

Hey can Raph nominate for free trade? If so what will get for him if he goes to another club and also what happens to the players that nominate and then don't get picked up, do they then nominate for the the draft.

The free agency is designed for players to field offers (don't think they need to disclose whether they are or aren't getting offers) and then nominate a club, rather than "take their chances" in the draft. Under some circumstances the club has the right to match the offer, although I wouldn't think this would apply to Raph (as he's not one of the top 10 highest players).

If there are no offers, then they stay or get delisted.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The free agency is designed for players to field offers (don't think they need to disclose whether they are or aren't getting offers) and then nominate a club, rather than "take their chances" in the draft. Under some circumstances the club has the right to match the offer, although I wouldn't think this would apply to Raph (as he's not one of the top 10 highest players).

If there are no offers, then they stay or get delisted.

I wonder if the club actually approaches players, and suggests that they try to get a gig. It might increase their chances rather than the stigma of being delisted.

 

[stfan]

Other teams have gotten by without picking up other teams cast offs, and many of those are recent premiership teams. I'd rather develop our own list and depth rather than pin our hopes on delisted players.

.

Hawks are favourites at present

Cast off Guerra would be playing if not injured.
Cast off Hale has been wonderful for them.
Cast of Gunston keeps bobbing up with goals.

And for developing their own at the Hawks lets ignore Burgoyne a Gibson too.

The Hawks have done very well with developing young talent, but in recent years they have done very well in their recruits from other clubs too.

Being successful today includes exploting every possible source of talent.

Would the Pies have won their flag with Jolly, Brown and Ball? I think not.

 

[Murraj1966]

Hale, Gunston, Burgoyne and Gibson were trades, not cast offs. Cast offs are other clubs delistees.

Jolly and Brown were trades as well and Ball was a different type of delisting circumstance.

 

[Cardio Carl]

The four delistings are of those that Pelchen etc believe have no currency in trade negotiations.

No doubt there are more to come off the main and rookie lists, but with trade period coming up, all the players they believe may have some value, to another club, have been retained, until trade negotiations are finished.

At the conclusion of this, we will have hopefully traded several , finalise our list and then will advise some players, that they are not to follow on in 2013.

Whilst we all acknowledge that a number of players have reached their time and need to move on, I am with other posters on here, appreciative of all that they gave to St Kilda. They may, or may not, have achieved their complete personal goals, but are proudly members of the long tradition of St Kilda. Good luck to each of them in the future.

Correct, you need to clean out your own cupboard before raiding another's. By having 4 players still on the list when going into trades/drafts that have no currency then let them go so we have spots to fill and money freed up.

I reckon Pelican has his eyes on a couple of the GWS and GCS unsigned players wanting to come home who have not been given the chance up there.

 

[Squizz]

in recent years they have done very well in their recruits from other clubs too.

So true. They have certainly had great success in targeting players from other clubs. Whilst we can claim plenty of success with Gram, Schneider, Gardiner, Dempster and Ray, we've also given up plenty for Brooks, Watts and Lovett.