Official List Management Thread

[Gary17]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

In response to a question from Cornes about Neil Craig's contract extension, Reid assured him that "Adelaide is very happy with the direction Neil Craig is taking the club and playing list and the Crows will never ever sack Neil Craig".

Sorry if this has already been said ...actually don't think he said they would never sack Craig, he said they wouldn't HAVE to sack him ie Craig would know when it was time to go and wouldn't try to enforce the length of any contract, he would just walk when the time came. This was in response to Cornes concern that they shouldn't have given Craig an extension. Reid basically said it doesn't matter how long the contract was for, it wouldn't mean that Craig would stick around if it wasn't working.

 

[johnnypanther]

one of our biggest problems, and the one reason I am not 100% sold on thomson for us (though happy if he comes) is the same reason I believe we made the right call on Ebert vs Dangerfield too is this:

that we are a very 1 paced team. everyone through the middle seems to be more or less, have one speed.

we need more variation. Thomson is a nice player, happy to have him, but guys like Varcoe & Didak etc. can mix it up. look at Neon Leon for an example.

Finally!!

i've been saying for years that IMO our biggest weakness is lack of pace all over the ground (only McLeod & Stiffy have shown any dash).

Our midfield in particular are and have been completely one paced.
The standard reply is that quick ball movement > pace, however, i beg to differ and we need more variety both n the midfield & forward:
- midfield, someone that can run & carry the ball and cross the lines (Macca once again is the only one who does it currently)
- forward, a true defensive quick crumber Varcoe!! ??

Possibly in Dangerfield, Mackay & Cook we may have 3 midfield runners (and even Jacky, whom i see as better served as a wingman).

 

[WALL-e]

If you want pace, you may want us to draft Blease. Would have to use first maybe second.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Here's a hypothetical (one in which i wouldn't go quite this hard)...let's assume the Crows realise their old blokes won't be there for the next real tilt in 2 or more years, and they are sick of the average blokes in the age group below them, and therefore decide to build for the future and gain depth for when our current 22-26yo players have plenty of experience. They go super-aggressive in the off-season and clear out most of the old blokes (I've left McLeod as this is a certainty, and Burton is out injured but in the squad).

This would mean no Goodwin, Edwards, Biglands, Bassett plus the 25+ average blokes in Shirley, Doughty, Massie, McGregor plus of course the roundly criticised Jericho. I've left Campbell and Gill due to age but haven't selected them below to see what would happen if they also got the boot cos they were considered not up to it...

That would leave a team of:

B: Kite, Rutten, Johncock
HB: McLeod, Bock, Stevens
C: Mackay, Porplyzia, Reilly
HF: Knights, Hentschel, Vince
F: Thompson, Tippett, Walker
1R: Maric, Symes, van Berlo
I: Moran, Douglas, Otten, Dangerfield
E: Sellar, Griffin, Petrenko


Looks ok for a developing side, though injury would reveal us to be paper thin (hence why I'd keep a couple of the delistees mentioned above).

 

[smoovy]

A big 4 midfield group of the future that will rival Brisbane's

Nathan Van berlo
Bernie Vince
David Mackay....

Jules Lund

 

[coast2coast]

A big 4 midfield group of the future that will rival Brisbane's

Nathan Van berlo
Bernie Vince
David Mackay....

Jules Lund

aka "the midfield of the damned"

 

[Ticktak]

The 2 to be delisted that will create the biggest noise will be Edwards & Doughty.

Both will be mighty unlucky due to having good years but if Craigy is true to his word about being aggresive with the list then these 2 will go.

It's a shame that there is not a rule out there that clubs can have 2 extra players on their list that have given 10 years service.

I know they have the verterans list but they still need to be included with the main list. It is such a pity that our great game loses great players too early.

If 2 extra spots were available for these type of players and they were not allowed to be paid more than say 100k I reckon it would be great. This would stop clubs putting gun players like Mcleod or Crawford on it but also ensure they are not lost to the game too early if they really want to go on.

 

[Mismatched]

A big 4 midfield group of the future that will rival Brisbane's

Nathan Van berlo
Bernie Vince
David Mackay....

Jules Lund

With Moran as their ruckman

 

[Mismatched]

Here's a hypothetical (one in which i wouldn't go quite this hard)...let's assume the Crows realise their old blokes won't be there for the next real tilt in 2 or more years, and they are sick of the average blokes in the age group below them, and therefore decide to build for the future and gain depth for when our current 22-26yo players have plenty of experience. They go super-aggressive in the off-season and clear out most of the old blokes (I've left McLeod as this is a certainty, and Burton is out injured but in the squad).

This would mean no Goodwin, Edwards, Biglands, Bassett plus the 25+ average blokes in Shirley, Doughty, Massie, McGregor plus of course the roundly criticised Jericho. I've left Campbell and Gill due to age but haven't selected them below to see what would happen if they also got the boot cos they were considered not up to it...

That would leave a team of:

B: Kite, Rutten, Johncock
HB: McLeod, Bock, Stevens
C: Mackay, Porplyzia, Reilly
HF: Knights, Hentschel, Vince
F: Thompson, Tippett, Walker
1R: Maric, Symes, van Berlo
I: Moran, Douglas, Otten, Dangerfield
E: Sellar, Griffin, Petrenko


Looks ok for a developing side, though injury would reveal us to be paper thin (hence why I'd keep a couple of the delistees mentioned above).

Trigg has already said that Goodwin has already signed for '09 and that Edwards was close and this was a week or so ago, so I'm guessing there's a good chance Edwards has signed and they just havn't bothered to tell us. When he mentioned Goodwin it was a bit of an afterthough really, so it wouldn't suprise me if Edwards has been signed, but it just hasn't been released.

 

[atcocc]

I think that we should look at trying to get 1 or maybe 2 more second round picks

who do you guys think that we would could potentially trade that would be worth 2nd rounders

 

[Eastern Crow]

it is a given that Goody, Zoomer and Macca will continue next year

Bassett and Biglands retired - 2 are gone

McGregor, Jericho, Campbell and Gallman will all be feeling the heat

Shirley, Massie and Doughty might be at some risk if NC continues to follow an aggressive list management strategy

 

[Alex99]

Is Shirley, Doughty and Massie out of contract?

Anyone know or heard if they have been offered a contract for 09, if not the longer it goes it goes and they are not offered anything it looks more likely 1, 2 or all 3 may be gone.

 

[macca23]

Shirley and Doughty have both now signed new contracts.

To the best of my knowledge Massie hasn't got a new contract at this stage. It's looking a bit ominous for him.

We also know that Jericho and Campbell haven't got new contracts either.

We also know that Gill has also been offered a one year contract, although we don't know whether he has accepted it or not. He didn't initially.

Channel 10 are saying that Gallman will survive, as will all of the aged big 3 (Macca, Edwards and Goody)

The building blocks are falling into place for the delistees.

Certainties

Biglands
Bassett
McGregor
Jericho
Campbell

Lock 'em in Eddie.

Probables

Massie


That makes 6 and after Petrenko's upgrading today leaves us with 5 picks. If all clubs had 5 picks, ours would be

10, 27, 43, 59 and 75

IMO that would be about it unless there was someone we had lined up in the PSD.

However, I can't see who the extra delist would be if we do go down the 5 pick plus PSD path, unless it was Armstrong, and that seems a bit harsh.

 

[jo172]

However, I can't see who the extra delist would be if we do go down the 5 pick plus PSD path, unless it was Armfield, and that seems a bit harsh.

Armstrong even?

Don't think we can delist Carltank players!

 

[macca23]

Armstrong even?

Don't think we can delist Carltank players!

That's about the 3rd time I've done that.

 

[dplggr47]

Shirley and Doughty have both now signed new contracts.

To the best of my knowledge Massie hasn't got a new contract at this stage. It's looking a bit ominous for him.

We also know that Jericho and Campbell haven't got new contracts either.

We also know that Gill has also been offered a one year contract, although we don't know whether he has accepted it or not. He didn't initially.

Channel 10 are saying that Gallman will survive, as will all of the aged big 3 (Macca, Edwards and Goody)

The building blocks are falling into place for the delistees.

Certainties

Biglands
Bassett
McGregor
Jericho
Campbell

Lock 'em in Eddie.

Probables

Massie


That makes 6 and after Petrenko's upgrading today leaves us with 5 picks. If all clubs had 5 picks, ours would be

10, 27, 43, 59 and 75

IMO that would be about it unless there was someone we had lined up in the PSD.

However, I can't see who the extra delist would be if we do go down the 5 pick plus PSD path, unless it was Armstrong, and that seems a bit harsh.

unless they're planning on obtaining draft picks from players (ie, Griffin), because for saying that this year was going to be another aggressive list management year, we obviously haven't seen anything close to aggressive so far. Massie seems to be the only slightly aggressive move, though, i'd say majority may have seen that one coming anyway. i think Armstrong will be kept another year; it would be incredibly harsh if he were cut.

i'd say Massie is a certainty now that Shirley, Doughty, Gallman and Gill are staying (i doubt Gill will go elsewhere).

so that's 6 players gone; 1 upgraded...leaving 5 picks, which i don't think is the number the crows plan to go into the draft with. i believe 1 or 2 players will be traded off for draft picks (Griffin and possibly Reilly) as well, which would be disappointing, as i'd rather just delist Gallman and/or Gill, but to me, that's how it's looking.

 

[Elite Crow]

so that's 6 players gone; 1 upgraded...leaving 5 picks, which i don't think is the number the crows plan to go into the draft with. i believe 1 or 2 players will be traded off for draft picks (Griffin and possibly Reilly) as well, which would be disappointing, as i'd rather just delist Gallman and/or Gill, but to me, that's how it's looking.

The difference is trading Griffin and Reilly should get you picks in the 20-30s at a minimum. Delist Gallman and we get to use our pick 75. If they figure theres a lack of depth in the draft they might believe they are better off developing Gallman. I personally hope we show some balls and take the Griffin and Reilly option. Then you will get your agressive list management.

 

[dplggr47]

The difference is trading Griffin and Reilly should get you picks in the 20-30s at a minimum. Delist Gallman and we get to use our pick 75. If they figure theres a lack of depth in the draft they might believe they are better off developing Gallman. I personally hope we show some balls and take the Griffin and Reilly option. Then you will get your agressive list management.

oh yeh, what you're saying makes sense with Gallman; i saw him mainly as taking up space on the list though, but another year or two shouldn't hurt.
i believe this is the option the crows are going for though. IMO, definitely one of Griffin or Reilly will be traded. If Griffin can be traded for 2 2nd rounders, giving us a total of 6 picks + 1 PSD pick, Reilly might not be traded...or Reilly could be traded and Griffin retained, but my guess is, the rumours surrounding Griffin are true, so he will most likely go this year, while trading Reilly only remains an option if a first rounder or 2 2nd rounders are offered (though, does he really have the same worth as Griffin on the market; possibly).

 

[beagle2]

If Griffin can be traded for 2 2nd rounders, giving us a total of 6 picks + 1 PSD pick,

Not without finding another delisting

 

[dplggr47]

Not without finding another delisting

oh yeh... this makes things so much harder. i have no idea what's going to happen now. i don't want to see Griff traded for a single 2nd rounder.

this doesn't seem at all an aggressive management of the list. nothing compared to last year.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

The difference is trading Griffin and Reilly should get you picks in the 20-30s at a minimum. Delist Gallman and we get to use our pick 75. If they figure theres a lack of depth in the draft they might believe they are better off developing Gallman. I personally hope we show some balls and take the Griffin and Reilly option. Then you will get your agressive list management.

I agree with you, and hope that Griffin is the one to go as long as we get a decent pick/s. If both go, it places huge responsibility on Rendell to not screw it up but it may just be worth the risk now that Mackay and Vince have stepped up. To get decent picks you have to give up value unfortunately.

If it stays as 5 picks (yes, Massie is gone i think), then that's disappointing.

Having said all that, i still believe the club has made a big mistake retaining so many senior players. A '2/3' strength draft in 09, followed by the Gold Coast draft in '10 and a likely similar draft for the 18th team in 2011. If things go poorly with form/injury/natural deterioration we may be offloading McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Burton, Doughty, Shirley in a real hurry, along with the doubts over Hentschel, Gill, Sellar, Gallman, Armstrong on whether they will even make it long term. We have rolled the dice keeping all the old blokes, it could turn pear-shaped in the next couple years with too many picks in weaker drafts. I would have liked at least 1, if not 2, of the aforementioned older blokes gone, but the club has gone conservatively. Time will tell.

 

[Vader]

That makes 6 and after Petrenko's upgrading today leaves us with 5 picks. If all clubs had 5 picks, ours would be

10, 27, 43, 59 and 75

Being pedantic here, but we have 10, 28, 44, 60 and 76 assuming all clubs make the same number of selections. Both West Coast and Melbourne qualified for priority draft selections (to be taken between the first and second rounds).

Other than that, I think you've nailed it on the head.

Far from the "aggressive list management" we were promised, the club has gone about as conservative as they possibly could. Very disappointing. TheLeftFist8 has summed up the risks nicely.

 

[Elite Crow]

I agree with Leftfist8, why would we keep so many old guys when as Craig put it we are a long way behind the best. Our finals performances prove that. We keep them for year for what? So we can get to eighth again?

I still think the club is going to pull some surprises, surely Craig would not come out with the aggressive list management quote if he didnt have some plans. Unless he considers getting rid of McGregor as aggressive, if so god help us.

 

[Alex99]

I agree with Leftfist8, why would we keep so many old guys when as Craig put it we are a long way behind the best. Our finals performances prove that. We keep them for year for what? So we can get to eighth again?

I still think the club is going to pull some surprises, surely Craig would not come out with the aggressive list management quote if he didnt have some plans. Unless he considers getting rid of McGregor as aggressive, if so god help us.

Yep agree, to me it looks like McGregor, Jericho and Campbell (assuming he is delisted) will be primary player to be delisted and have spent the majority of the season in the SANFL. I am still not sure how this will help open up a few places in the side to help improve the side. I cannot see Shirley, Stevens, Doughty, Edwards, McLeod or Goodwin being sent back to the SANFL because at one stage this season all of them could have spend some time in the magoos.

Reading between the lines of the stuff coming out of West Lakes Nathan Bassett and potentially Kris Massie will be the only 2 senior guys delisted from yet another finals debacle.

 

[SydCrow]

Cutting another senior player would give us an extra pick in the draft. But it would be pick 92. Is #92 going to make a difference to the quality of our list?