Official Nadal vs. Federer thread.

[Total Power]

I am prepared to snap that limb.

You realise Ivanisevic got done in the first couple of round at Wimbledon routinely? Yes, he made it through to the final four times, but he was a notoriously unstable player, whose form fluctuated set to set.

If you don't recognize that Nadal (and Federer) would crush Goran mentally, then you don't really understand what it is that makes Nadal great.

And if you're comparing Nadal to Aggassi, Nadal has him covered in literally every aspect. Angles, power, speed, whatever.

Specifically, Nadal's ability to defend was unheard of in the 90's (it's the one area of tennis which has progressed the furthest in the last 10 years). I guess Chang was one, but he didn't have the shots going the other way.

are you kidding me? nadals biggest inability is to return big serves.He regularly gets aced by guys like tsonga, federer who are not the biggest of servers.I am talking about the fast surface of wimbledon back then. Goran was just an example, he is a headcase just like Rios, its either hit or miss for him.But people will be laughing at you if you think rafa stood a chance against sampras or becker at early 90s wimbledon surface.If you understand tennis, you should know that a "fast grass court" doesnt make the ball bounce as high as the grass court of present.Rafa will have problems generation the same amount of bounce and bite as he does now.

And return of serve? you have to be kidding me if you think he stood a chance on that fast surface considering his return of serve is usually a block or floating forehand.This is why sampras recently said federer has to serve and volley more against rafa, otherwise he stands no chance from the baseline and is playing into rafas hands. Food for thought

He will face the same problem he faced against robert kendrik 2 years ago whose game was below average but his style still gave rafa hell

 

[mdc]

are you kidding me? nadals biggest inability is to return big serves.He regularly gets aced by guys like tsonga, federer who are not the biggest of servers.I am talking about the fast surface of wimbledon back then. Goran was just an example, he is a headcase just like Rios, its either hit or miss for him.But people will be laughing at you if you think rafa stood a chance against sampras or becker at early 90s wimbledon surface.If you understand tennis, you should know that a "fast grass court" doesnt make the ball bounce as high as the grass court of present.Rafa will have problems generation the same amount of bounce and bite as he does now.

You were talking about Goran and Krajicek and co, and suddenly you switch it to Sampras and Becker?

p.s. Tsonga may not be the "biggest of servers" by today's standards, but he's still faster than a good deal of those serve-and-volleyers that you're speaking of.

Remember, anything 210+ used to awesome, now it's routine.

And return of serve? you have to be kidding me if you think he stood a chance on that fast surface considering his return of serve is usually a block or floating forehand.This is why sampras recently said federer has to serve and volley more against rafa, otherwise he stands no chance from the baseline and is playing into rafas hands. Food for thought

Well, if we're going by what Sampras said, why don't we pay more heed to this then:

"I really thought that 14 would be a number that would be very tough to tie and break," Sampras said Friday in a telephone interview with The Associated Press, "but Roger just came along and dominated the game much more than I ever did."

He will face the same problem he faced against robert kendrik 2 years ago whose game was below average but his style still gave rafa hell

2 years ago Nadal was hardly the same player.

 

[Total Power]

You were talking about Goran and Krajicek and co, and suddenly you switch it to Sampras and Becker?

Goran if playing good tennis will beat rafa.Depends on which side of the bed he is sleeping i guess.Krajicek was a real difficult proposition on grass.I am sure you dont disagree with that.Even the best returner of serve agassi had problems returning his serves, what chance does rafa stand?

p.s. Tsonga may not be the "biggest of servers" by today's standards, but he's still faster than a good deal of those serve-and-volleyers that you're speaking of.

how about federer? he aced rafa 24 times last wimbledon and 26 times the wimbledon before that, for a guy who barely hits 200 kph, thats too much dont u think?
.

Well, if we're going by what Sampras said, why don't we pay more heed to this then:

who is disagreeing with that? he dominated the last 4 years, i dont think you will find me disagreeing with it.What i meant is the quality of players, which is completely different discussion.

2 years ago Nadal was hardly the same player.

sure, but his return of serves are still his weakest point, i dont think you will find many people arguing over it.

Back on federer: i dont think he is the greatest just because of his inability to workout a strategy to beat rafa.FFs they had 20 odd meetings now.Can you name a tennis legend who faced the same problem as federer? laver? nope, sampras? nope, borg? nope.

 

[mdc]

how about federer? he aced rafa 24 times last wimbledon and 26 times the wimbledon before that, for a guy who barely hits 200 kph, thats too much dont u think?

Look, Rafa isn't a great returner, but he's not as bad as you make him seem.

As for getting aced a lot, Aggassi got aced more than anyone, and he's the best returner I've seen (bar maybe a young Safin).

Back on federer: i dont think he is the greatest just because of his inability to workout a strategy to beat rafa.FFs they had 20 odd meetings now.Can you name a tennis legend who faced the same problem as federer? laver? nope, sampras? nope, borg? nope.

His record against Rafa is a genuine concern, but Rafa could go down as the best baseliner of all time, so it's no shame.

For comparison, Sampras had a -ve record against both Krajicek and Stich. He also never dominated his fellow Top 10 players nearly as much as Federer has. Take Chang for example - Sampras was 12-8 against him. Federer's 14-5 against Hewitt, who's almost a carbon copy.

And if you look through Fed's head-to-head, some of his numbers are just sick. I mean, 16-2 vs. Roddick. 12-0 against Davydenko. 9-2 against Safin. 8-1 vs. Blake.

Say what you want about those guys, those are still sick numbers.

 

[Total Power]

Look, Rafa isn't a great returner, but he's not as bad as you make him seem.

As for getting aced a lot, Aggassi got aced more than anyone, and he's the best returner I've seen (bar maybe a young Safin).



His record against Rafa is a genuine concern, but Rafa could go down as the best baseliner of all time, so it's no shame.

For comparison, Sampras had a -ve record against both Krajicek and Stich. He also never dominated his fellow Top 10 players nearly as much as Federer has. Take Chang for example - Sampras was 12-8 against him. Federer's 14-5 against Hewitt, who's almost a carbon copy.

And if you look through Fed's head-to-head, some of his numbers are just sick. I mean, 16-2 vs. Roddick. 12-0 against Davydenko. 9-2 against Safin. 8-1 vs. Blake.

Say what you want about those guys, those are still sick numbers.

If you look at chang vs sampras you will see majority of changs victory came before sampras started dominating.Just like henman had federers number for a long long time, once it was 6-1 in favour of tim.Its unfair to actually judge the numbers on the basis of numbers only.You have to take into account the tournament and the time as well.Sampras was very beatable in smaller tournaments compared to federer.

Hewitt vs federer is the same as chang vs sampras.Most of hewitts win came before federer started dominating.

Anyway the point i am making is if roger is unable to workout a strategy to beat rafa he wont be the greatest ever, he will be 28 this year, time is really running out.

 

[Total Power]

One last thing i wanna add to my previous post, Sampras had a much closer encounter with his fellow top 10 players who mostly beat him in smaller tournaments.Sampras's nearest rival was agassi, who is a legend himself but sampras did beat agassi regularly in slams.So Sampras did against becker, courier, chang and others.

Federer on the other hand beat an inexperienced rafa twice on his favourite surface before getting owned.Federer believes he cannot beat rafa, its his mindset. Wilander was right when he commented about federer against nadal.Now with Nole and Murray having federers number in their recent encourters, it will only get difficult for federer from here.I dare say it but i will stick my neck out and say, federer will never beat nadal in a grand slam event.He is 28 in a few months time and i would say if he cannot workout how to beat rafa this year he will never do it.

 

[Larry the Liquidator]

One last thing i wanna add to my previous post, Sampras had a much closer encounter with his fellow top 10 players who mostly beat him in smaller tournaments.Sampras's nearest rival was agassi, who is a legend himself but sampras did beat agassi regularly in slams.So Sampras did against becker, courier, chang and others.

Federer on the other hand beat an inexperienced rafa twice on his favourite surface before getting owned.Federer believes he cannot beat rafa, its his mindset. Wilander was right when he commented about federer against nadal.Now with Nole and Murray having federers number in their recent encourters, it will only get difficult for federer from here.I dare say it but i will stick my neck out and say, federer will never beat nadal in a grand slam event.He is 28 in a few months time and i would say if he cannot workout how to beat rafa this year he will never do it.

I am a Nadal fan but you have to respect Federer. To say that Federer will never again beat Nadal in a slam is a little bit premature. If Nadal and Federer were to meet in the 2009 Wimbledon final, and at this point, that looks on the cards, I would right here right now say that is a 50/50 match...split right down the middle. The French Open obviously Nadal will be favourite, but at the world's most prestigious event, 50/50.

As for Sampras, yes he did beat all his closesat rivals. During his era his 2 biggest rivals would have been Agassi and Courier... at Wimbledon he had a rivallary going with Ivanisevic. Both Courier and Agassi did score wins against Sampras. Someone like Becker though, was past his best by the time Sampras started to dominate. When you said that two of Federers wins agaisnt Nadal happended at a time when Nadal was inexperienced, well I liken some of Sampras' wins against Becker at a time when Becker was past it. Becker of 85/86 at Wimbledon was almost unstoppable, it would be interesting to see how Sampras would have coped with the Becker of 1985/86, as opposed to the Becker he played in circa 1995/96.

 

[tarky]

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pz0qwiy92cs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pz0qwiy92cs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]