Official Sayonara Priority Pick Thread

[Embers]

Yeah, but then you have St Kilda who are currently undefeated and have a bunch of top 5 draft picks in their side. There are huge advantages in a top 5 pick, even in a poor draft.



Such a good point that so many forget. And for those who are angry that the coaching staff didn't tank, it's quite possible that they did. There weren't too many 'gamebreaking' changes to the Eagles side that played poorly against Freo (they even picked a 1st gamer), and there's no way they could have predicted that Swift and Naitanui would have such good games.

It was the players performance than delivered the win, not any moves by the coaches.

Riewoldt and Kosi are the only two arnt they?

 

[shoe]

Just for discussions sake, I would suggest that football players aren't above tanking. Generally speaking, footballers will do what's in the best interest of the club, as decided by the coach.

Why else does Mitch Brown spend time in defence? I'm sure if it wasn't for Worsfold telling him that playing as a defender allows us to play more of our better talls he'd line up in the forward line and say "CHF is my best position".

With that in mind, what if Worsfold told him that he should shank some kicks and that if he does he wont be judged on it? After all, this is also in the best interest of the club.

I suppose for the second example, a player who's been at the club for a long time and bleeds for it would be a better choice though, rather than Brown. So what if Worsfold said to Embley "We want this PP, therefore if you get a chance to kick a goal, let it slide. You've earnt your stripes at the club, 4 bad games aren't going to be the end of you, just do as your told and the Eagles will be better for it".

Does anyone think Embley would tell Worsfold to piss off? I don't and I think there are many players at our club who wouldn't as well as many, many players in the AFL who wouldn't tell their respective coaches to shove it.

...Like I said before, this is just for discussions sake and I'm not saying this happened or is happening yet, but I truely believe that players tanking is the next logical step for tanking to take.

Finally, I am glad (in a way) that the PP is gone and I hope we never come close to seeing one again but it's a kick in the teeth for me, because I now have to grips with the fact that we're bad enough to have legitimately lost to Fremantle and Melbourne and that we wont have a PP to improve this list, which is suddenly worst than I thought it was.

I see what you're saying, but I just don't think it's a plausible scenario.

Why should they beleive the staff who said the bad games wouldn't affect their career? There's no way it wouldn't.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Riewoldt and Kosi are the only two arnt they?

And Goddard.

Three is a bunch I suppose.

 

[Embers]

And Goddard.

Three is a bunch I suppose.

Naitanui, Masten, Kennedy

We have our three. Soon to be 4. God we are close to a undefeated season. Premiership here we come

 

[shoe]

Why don't you go and have a look at the gun midfielders and KPP's in the teams that are on the top of the ladder and then go and look at where those blokes were taken in the draft. I'll give you a tip about what you will find - there weren't too many of them floating around after the first round. Money doesn't grow on trees and neither do gun footy players.

Your post makes me think of a man who has just blown $5,000 in the Burswood casino and now doesn't even have enough money for a cab ride hoem talking himself into believing it will all be alright because he is bound to find $5,000 lying around on the pavement somewhere on the walk home to replace it with. That kind of thing of just happens all the time, doesn't it? You get something really valuable for free?

That's been my point all along. It is certainly not for free.

I consider building a losing culture at the club, and letting the boys confidence wane as they forget how to win an incredibly high cost.

Sure, so there wasn't too many gun KPP floating around after the first round. So we don't have any picks in the first round now?

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

And Goddard.

Three is a bunch I suppose.

Reiwoldt, Kosczitzke, Ball, Goddard, Gardiner, Ray, X.Clarke with R.Clarke at #7.
That's a fair few.

 

[Embers]

Reiwoldt, Kosczitzke, Ball, Goddard, Gardiner, Ray, X.Clarke with R.Clarke at #7.
That's a fair few.

The first 2 aside im hardly wetting my pants in joy. Ball is in the magoos. Goddard is a decent half back flanker but so is Hurn and he was pick 12. We delisted Gardiner, remember. We could of got Ray if we wanted. Hes had a good year but its easy to look good in a good team. The Clarke duds are some of the worst top 10 picks in recent times.So picks inside the top 10 then.

Well we have

Naitanui, Masten, Kennedy, Waters but most importantly our picks between 10-25 have been sheer quality

M.Brown Swift Hurn Ebert etc. We have been quite lucky in recent years picking up MASSIVE sliders for one reason or another. No doubt in my mind Hurn and Ebert are top 10 from the drafts they were picked in. Mitch Brown too.

 

[Jimmy_the_Gent]

I see what you're saying, but I just don't think it's a plausible scenario.

Why should they beleive the staff who said the bad games wouldn't affect their career? There's no way it wouldn't.

Fair enough, and I was just throwing it out there.

I reckon we're a few years off players starting to tank for their coaches and clubs. Not for a long time but just for the last half dozen games or so.

 

[Clay Davis]

Riewoldt and Kosi are the only two arnt they?

The answer is no, and you squibbed again, Embers.

 

[Embers]

The answer is no, and you squibbed again, Embers.

3 is hardly a group though is it....

 

[Trouto]

**** i'm glad the PP is gone. Now I can laugh at all of you ****heads who told us we were idiots for wanting wins.

The only tragedy here is how many of you were sucked into it. It wasn't that long ago that threads about tanking were met with utter disdain. We are more than capable of drafting a quality list without purposely capitulating. Wheres your pride for the jumper?

Disgusted. Embarrassed. You know who you are.

Nod, totally agree.

 

[Trouto]

Just for discussions sake, I would suggest that football players aren't above tanking. Generally speaking, footballers will do what's in the best interest of the club, as decided by the coach.

Why else does Mitch Brown spend time in defence? I'm sure if it wasn't for Worsfold telling him that playing as a defender allows us to play more of our better talls he'd line up in the forward line and say "CHF is my best position".

With that in mind, what if Worsfold told him that he should shank some kicks and that if he does he wont be judged on it? After all, this is also in the best interest of the club.

I suppose for the second example, a player who's been at the club for a long time and bleeds for it would be a better choice though, rather than Brown. So what if Worsfold said to Embley "We want this PP, therefore if you get a chance to kick a goal, let it slide. You've earnt your stripes at the club, 4 bad games aren't going to be the end of you, just do as your told and the Eagles will be better for it".

Does anyone think Embley would tell Worsfold to piss off? I don't and I think there are many players at our club who wouldn't as well as many, many players in the AFL who wouldn't tell their respective coaches to shove it.

...Like I said before, this is just for discussions sake and I'm not saying this happened or is happening yet, but I truely believe that players tanking is the next logical step for tanking to take.

Finally, I am glad (in a way) that the PP is gone and I hope we never come close to seeing one again but it's a kick in the teeth for me, because I now have to grips with the fact that we're bad enough to have legitimately lost to Fremantle and Melbourne and that we wont have a PP to improve this list, which is suddenly worst than I thought it was.

I can't see players being involved in any "tanking conspiracy"...ever. Footy players are usually not the brightest sparks, and have a tendancy to get on the grog quite often, which sometimes leads to people saying things they ought not....most people know what i am talking about.

In short, if it got out, the fan would be well and truely covered in the brown stuff....Talk about "bringing the game into disrepute".

 

[Jimthegreat]

This thread is a sodomy party for those short sighted enough not to see the value of a PP. Eagles management invited. Give yourself a slap on the back.....side.

What you're getting is consolation and rationalisation now you don't have it anymore. The thing is most of the same people would be rapt if the kept losing and got a PP. That means pick 2 and 6 rather than just pick 5. Big difference.

 

[Clay Davis]

3 is hardly a group though is it....

Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard, Clarke, Gardiner, Ray.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

St Kilda traded Ray and Gardiner for pick upgrades, they didn't use top-5 picks on them. If you want us to try to trade for someone who was once a top-5 pick but has fallen out of favour at his club then that's another topic.

Ball is in the seconds.

Clarke isn't exactly a superstar.

 

[Embers]

Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard, Clarke, Gardiner, Ray.

From the last 2 weeks they have had Riewoldt Kosi Goddard which I named aswell as Raph Clarke and Ray. I think if St Kilda win the flag it wont be because of Raph Clarke.....

 

[Clay Davis]

St Kilda traded Ray and Gardiner for pick upgrades, they didn't use top-5 picks on them. If you want us to try to trade for someone who was once a top-5 pick but has fallen out of favour at his club then that's another topic.

Ball is in the seconds.

Clarke isn't exactly a superstar.

You can't include Josh Kennedy in your 'top 5 picks' then either.

That settles it. You have two top five draft picks on your list currently. St Kilda has five on their list. Their quality is arguable - who knows whether your players will make it?

 

[Embers]

You can't include Josh Kennedy in your 'top 5 picks' then either.

That settles it. You have two top five draft picks on your list currently. St Kilda has five on their list. Their quality is arguable - who knows whether your players will make it?

Josh Kennedy wasnt delisted like Gardiner nor did he walk out on the club like Ray did.

Id say including Kennedy is slightly different. What about just plain general top 20 picks. Id say we have ALOT more than St Kilda do in there 11. In our best 22 we would have

Naitanui, Masten, Ebert, Kennedy, Glass, M.Brown, Hurn, Swift

St Kilda have

Kosi, Riewoldt, Goddard, Hayes, Dal Santo, McEvoy, McQualter, Ray

8 each

 

[Clay Davis]

Josh Kennedy wasnt delisted like Gardiner nor did he walk out on the club like Ray did.

Gardiner wasn't delisted for lack of ability was he? Ray asked for a trade - happens all the time. So did Judd. Can Carlton include him in the swathe of 'top 5' picks they have?

Id say including Kennedy is slightly different. What about just plain general top 20 picks. Id say we have ALOT more than St Kilda do in there 11. In our best 22 we would have

Naitanui, Masten, Ebert, Kennedy, Glass, M.Brown, Hurn, Swift

St Kilda have

Kosi, Riewoldt, Goddard, Hayes, Dal Santo, McEvoy, McQualter, Ray

8 each

What about top 100 picks?

 

[drexel]

Worsfold's thinking might have been "If the young guys can lead us to victory (Swift, Nait, Masten, Ebert) without a much input from seniors (Cox/Kerr), then our squad is not so desperate for PP's to incur the tank stigma going forward"

Had it not been Naita,Swift and co winning us the game, then for sure i would be furious at the club throwing away PP's. All in all, our midfield going into 2010-12 is looking pretty sweet. Cox/Nait in Ruck, then Masten, Swift, Kerr, Ebert, Schuey, is promising enough.

 

[Big Cox]

Gardiner wasn't delisted for lack of ability was he? Ray asked for a trade - happens all the time. So did Judd. Can Carlton include him in the swathe of 'top 5' picks they have?


What about top 100 picks?

Deary me. We have one here who struggles with the basic concept of successful and failed draft picks. Surprising given hes a Freo fan but I understand simple concepts take them longer to digest

The difference between Ray and Kennedy . Kennedy was a success as pick 4. Kennedys is still a top 10 player from the draft he was talen from. Ray was a failure. Ray might of been picked at 4 5 years ago but last year his current worth to the game was pick 28. So Ray now moves from a top 4 pick to pick 28.

Just like Kepler isnt a pick 6 anymore. Hes a pick 76 and he plays like it too.

St Kilda have 3 top 5 picks and a some plodders they wasted picks on.

Oddly enough on your top 100 concept pick 18 has been more successful than pick 7. Resulted in 1000 more games of AFL footy from that spot beieve it or not. Draft has some luck involved too.

Look at all the first rounders top 20 picks we have had in the past few years. Way I see it is we tanked for pick 1 last year for this years draft in Tom Swift. No doubt if Tom Swift decided to elect for this draft he would be a clear pick 1.

 

[Clay Davis]

Deary me. We have one here who struggles with the basic concept of successful and failed draft picks. Surprising given hes a Freo fan but I understand simple concepts take them longer to digest

The difference between Ray and Kennedy . Kennedy was a success as pick 4. Kennedys is still a top 10 player from the draft he was talen from. Ray was a failure. Ray might of been picked at 4 5 years ago but last year his current worth to the game was pick 28. So Ray now moves from a top 4 pick to pick 28.

Just like Kepler isnt a pick 6 anymore. Hes a pick 76 and he plays like it too.

St Kilda have 3 top 5 picks and a some plodders they wasted picks on.

Oddly enough on your top 100 concept pick 18 has been more successful than pick 7. Resulted in 1000 more games of AFL footy from that spot beieve it or not. Draft has some luck involved too.

Look at all the first rounders top 20 picks we have had in the past few years. Way I see it is we tanked for pick 1 last year for this years draft in Tom Swift. No doubt if Tom Swift decided to elect for this draft he would be a clear pick 1.

Dearest you,

Tom Swift's an easy example to choose. Rated best 16 year old in the country. The worries were always about his knees. Looks to be growing into the pace of the game. Why not choose Chris Yarran as an example? Where would he go?

Kennedy was a success? Is that why he kicked 11 goals in 22 games at Carlton? Why he was dropped to the Bullants?

The point about top 5 picks is that you're given a better chance at the best talent from that year than other teams. They might not be the best players of all time, but you're not competing with those players. Just the ones in the present.

So, a swathe of top 5 picks over a few years will more than likely guarantee a quality list compared to your competitors, especially if you've got a good drafting record. That's the point.

 

[bodazoka]

This is where our early draft picks sit within the team, I have only included the kids who are genuine chances to be in the next premiership.

FB: Scooter (22), Waters (11)
HB: Hurn (13),
C: Swift (20), Shuey (18)
HF: Ebert (13), Brown (16),
FF: Notte (20), Kennedy (5),

Ruck: Naita (2), Masten (3)

Interchange: Butler (20)

Blokes like LeCras, McKenzie, Spangher, McKinley were all taken before pick #30.

A couple of kids in every position, Kerr is a big one if he isnt going to be apart of our next premiership then we do need to replace him with another A grade midfielder. IMO we still require some A grade midfield talent, we are ok for tall forwards and good backmen dont need to be taken early.

That is why I was a big fan of the PP, because IMO we are still short some A grade midfielder talent because its line ball wether Kerr will be around in 5 years and im unsure we can rely on just Swift/Shuey/Ebert/Masten to all be good enough and injury free.

 

[Chuck_Spidena]

Sorry, I might be derailing the thread but i have a question thats been bugging me.

A lot of people seem to rate Shuey really highly and i've read his profile on the west coast home page, and it's all great news to think we have another speedy talented classy mid in our ranks. but if he's THAT highly rated, why wasn't he taken top 10?

what are his drawbacks?

eg, with Rich, recruiters thought he had short arms and whatnot so that made him slip.

 

[Crimson King]

His drawback is that he is too good for the AFL.

Just too good.