2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

Ralphyboy

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May 25, 2016
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Forgive my ignorance Blood red ... what is the “nds”?
The neafl rules allow the four afl clubs to add up to 9 non drafted 19 year olds to their list. They then provide the main top ups. The club can also use cat b and academy rights to draft them if they wish. I think sam wicks was the first to be drafted from the nds, although jake brown might have as well.

I think the rules for kids prior to their draft year training with the club are quite strict, whereas post draft year they can. As a consequence the nds will do a pre season with the seniors.

Is it good to do the nds? There are pros and cons. It can be pretty crap being a top up depending on the nature of the listed players. I think this year there are quite a few first year swans players and so the nds guys have been well included. Of course what happens on tour stays on tour but I think they all had a great time in darwin!

In past years the neafl has had a lot of older players who were fighting for senior spots and their careers and so being an nds wasn't much fun. About 2 years ago some of the listed players were horrible to the top ups. Fortunately they got delisted.

Now the squad is a combo of young guys, and some awesome people like kieran jack. Being able to play with someone like kieran jack is something some of the nds guys will treasure.

The downside of the nds like anything is where a player starts to realise they probably will not get drafted by the swans. That tends to happen about now where some nds don't get picked for neafl and under 17s and 18s start to get a run. This happened last weekend and I saw kinnear beatson at the neafl to check the younger ones out.

I always feel very sad for the young men who have devoted so much time to their passion only to see it not reaching fruition. However if they are really dedicated don't give up. Go to the sanfl like lower, go to the vfl. Fortunately there are multiple pathways.
 

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Cynic2019

Draftee
Jul 30, 2019
14
17
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Hearing about the Academy in these posts has made me so sad. :(
The club is better than this :mad:
I believe that trying to order them isn't helpful.
I believe, for what it's worth, they need to be viewed as positional/player types to make it worthwhile.
With the number of small rebounding defenders and small type mids/fwds they already have, makes it a little more interesting.
I think that Luke Parkes and Sam Thorne would be seen as the 2 who will prob be rookied or picked up late.
Other highly talented:
Fwd..
Ellem/Barling/
Mids.. big inside
Barling/McGrath
Mids.. small outside
Thorne/Swaney
Backs.
Parkes/Rayner/Gedes/Martin
Ruck..
Gaden

I would assume that Ellem may have interest elsewhere too.
But the rest will probably be offered nds spots.

Word on the street is that some may just say no thanks.
Big fan of Luke Parkes, has a great body, motor and combative spirit, great closing speed as well. Field kicking is a problem, that can be fixed. Really needs intensive kicking program.
Sam Thorne. Not sure. Very combative, not sure his body, would hold up long, being a bash and crash mid Like when he bursts and uses his speed. Get a lot of his stats receiving short 45's.
Ellem has X Factor. Just doesn't do enough of it. Would love to get hold of him, get him using long leads, use his pace. The ball was dumped on his head too many times. I'd persevere with him.
Cooper Kilpatrick, outside mid, wing, small forward. Very clean, hits the pack hard and takes the ball away, no one else is doing this, it's a real point of difference. Great team player and has had a million goal assists in NEAFL.
Tommy Tyson, reminds me of Darren Kappler. Booming left footer, been a real surprise packet for me, shows real smarts and great vision. The most pleasing thing about him, he didn't miss to many targets and can kick a goal.
Noah Casalini, I was drawn to him, not sure why, just got the feeling he had gears. Good field kick, strong mark. Has actually been in St G best consistently. He's a roughy.
Tom Baxter. Mid,Wing, Forward. When he was on the ball the team performed better, really smart and clean, great organiser. Rarely wasted the ball. Great vision. Team mates rate him highly. Unfortunately was really under utilised. Needs to build his tank. Need to have a higher percentage with goal kicking.
Sam Gaden, athletically a specimen, really starting to believe in himself. For a big guy has an exceptional skill set. He could be a second ruckman, CHF or CHB maybe a running tall winger, he has that kind of tank.
Max Geddes, Can't believe the way this kids come on, made two mistakes in the TAC series. Exceptional reader of the game, his skills set have come on in leaps and bounds. He's been a big find.
Kyle Martin. Great reader of the game, really needs how to find it. Would someone please tell him not to just belt the ball as far as he can. For someone who works so hard getting it, I'd really love to see if he could find targets. Needs to build his tank top. But rate his ball finding ability.
Jacko Barling, not sure, everyone has caught up to him physically. Needs to reinvent himself, has really good skill set, but he can't play the bully anymore.
Josh Rayner, my mail is he didn't like Crouch at all. I haven't seen a lot of him, my impression was he looked disinterested.
By all accounts is a real talent. Didn't see enough of it to say.
Lachie Swaney. Could play a real role, much like a Crouch or Nick Smith. Huge motor, solid skill set and great work ethic.
Ky McGrath, from what I saw, I thought he was a good decision maker, would like to see more, but on the whole pretty impressed.
Campbell very impressive, only problem I found was he burnt a lot of really good leads and blazed at goals, but knows how to find it, lot of upside to this kid. Let's see how he shapes up next year when he has to be the main man.
Gulden. Really smart player, great work rate. Would like to see him stop the little dabs, follow up and receive. That will get worked out with better players. Really like to see him pick longer targets cause he has an exceptional boot.
There's Harry Parker and McGuire I think I get them mixed up, but one of them I really like.
Zac Youlten like to see a bit more of him as well, seems like a really smart player.
 

Tesla Tenet

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Apr 13, 2016
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Big fan of Luke Parkes, has a great body, motor and combative spirit, great closing speed as well. Field kicking is a problem, that can be fixed. Really needs intensive kicking program.
Sam Thorne. Not sure. Very combative, not sure his body, would hold up long, being a bash and crash mid Like when he bursts and uses his speed. Get a lot of his stats receiving short 45's.
Ellem has X Factor. Just doesn't do enough of it. Would love to get hold of him, get him using long leads, use his pace. The ball was dumped on his head too many times. I'd persevere with him.
Cooper Kilpatrick, outside mid, wing, small forward. Very clean, hits the pack hard and takes the ball away, no one else is doing this, it's a real point of difference. Great team player and has had a million goal assists in NEAFL.
Tommy Tyson, reminds me of Darren Kappler. Booming left footer, been a real surprise packet for me, shows real smarts and great vision. The most pleasing thing about him, he didn't miss to many targets and can kick a goal.
Noah Casalini, I was drawn to him, not sure why, just got the feeling he had gears. Good field kick, strong mark. Has actually been in St G best consistently. He's a roughy.
Tom Baxter. Mid,Wing, Forward. When he was on the ball the team performed better, really smart and clean, great organiser. Rarely wasted the ball. Great vision. Team mates rate him highly. Unfortunately was really under utilised. Needs to build his tank. Need to have a higher percentage with goal kicking.
Sam Gaden, athletically a specimen, really starting to believe in himself. For a big guy has an exceptional skill set. He could be a second ruckman, CHF or CHB maybe a running tall winger, he has that kind of tank.
Max Geddes, Can't believe the way this kids come on, made two mistakes in the TAC series. Exceptional reader of the game, his skills set have come on in leaps and bounds. He's been a big find.
Kyle Martin. Great reader of the game, really needs how to find it. Would someone please tell him not to just belt the ball as far as he can. For someone who works so hard getting it, I'd really love to see if he could find targets. Needs to build his tank top. But rate his ball finding ability.
Jacko Barling, not sure, everyone has caught up to him physically. Needs to reinvent himself, has really good skill set, but he can't play the bully anymore.
Josh Rayner, my mail is he didn't like Crouch at all. I haven't seen a lot of him, my impression was he looked disinterested.
By all accounts is a real talent. Didn't see enough of it to say.
Lachie Swaney. Could play a real role, much like a Crouch or Nick Smith. Huge motor, solid skill set and great work ethic.
Ky McGrath, from what I saw, I thought he was a good decision maker, would like to see more, but on the whole pretty impressed.
Campbell very impressive, only problem I found was he burnt a lot of really good leads and blazed at goals, but knows how to find it, lot of upside to this kid. Let's see how he shapes up next year when he has to be the main man.
Gulden. Really smart player, great work rate. Would like to see him stop the little dabs, follow up and receive. That will get worked out with better players. Really like to see him pick longer targets cause he has an exceptional boot.
There's Harry Parker and McGuire I think I get them mixed up, but one of them I really like.
Zac Youlten like to see a bit more of him as well, seems like a really smart player.
Thankyou for very comprehensive comments. I largely agree about the players I know.

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NFI AFL

Draftee
Jul 30, 2019
2
1
AFL Club
Sydney
Make no bones about it, the kids never had a chance to show off their abilities. The coaching was disciplined, boring, every play had a pretty determined destination, it had no flair, no run. The game plan was as dour as the coach. It was embarrassing, adding to that the selfishness that was allowed to fester. The skill deficiencies, that could have been righted, were never pulled up. We know that because they kept happening.
So many kids have been left ruined, confused and I'm betting many will give it away disillusioned.
So many kids that dominated the trials, never got a look in after that, and bizarrely got pigeon holed, never to see the light of day.
Crouch, Smith need to go, and the Academy needs a complete overhaul. It's a nightmare factory.
Why in the hell would you play negative boring football. Every kid has a flair for the game and should be encouraged to take the game on. The cream will rise. The 2018 class never had a chance. So many talented kids will be put to the sword.
As an example, one kid who moved to Vic, would have probably been cut at benchmark, is now at Combine. The kid is a good player, but imo there was 25 players ahead of him on talent. I wish that young man every success, he was lucky enough to escape the negative clutches of the Academy.
Sounds like you may be a disgruntled parent? Know a lot about the Easts boys. Let Smithy get on with it.. yes there some golden tickets, that’s life! if the boys get through the system well done!
 

Ralphyboy

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May 25, 2016
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Big fan of Luke Parkes, has a great body, motor and combative spirit, great closing speed as well. Field kicking is a problem, that can be fixed. Really needs intensive kicking program.
Sam Thorne. Not sure. Very combative, not sure his body, would hold up long, being a bash and crash mid Like when he bursts and uses his speed. Get a lot of his stats receiving short 45's.
Ellem has X Factor. Just doesn't do enough of it. Would love to get hold of him, get him using long leads, use his pace. The ball was dumped on his head too many times. I'd persevere with him.
Cooper Kilpatrick, outside mid, wing, small forward. Very clean, hits the pack hard and takes the ball away, no one else is doing this, it's a real point of difference. Great team player and has had a million goal assists in NEAFL.
Tommy Tyson, reminds me of Darren Kappler. Booming left footer, been a real surprise packet for me, shows real smarts and great vision. The most pleasing thing about him, he didn't miss to many targets and can kick a goal.
Noah Casalini, I was drawn to him, not sure why, just got the feeling he had gears. Good field kick, strong mark. Has actually been in St G best consistently. He's a roughy.
Tom Baxter. Mid,Wing, Forward. When he was on the ball the team performed better, really smart and clean, great organiser. Rarely wasted the ball. Great vision. Team mates rate him highly. Unfortunately was really under utilised. Needs to build his tank. Need to have a higher percentage with goal kicking.
Sam Gaden, athletically a specimen, really starting to believe in himself. For a big guy has an exceptional skill set. He could be a second ruckman, CHF or CHB maybe a running tall winger, he has that kind of tank.
Max Geddes, Can't believe the way this kids come on, made two mistakes in the TAC series. Exceptional reader of the game, his skills set have come on in leaps and bounds. He's been a big find.
Kyle Martin. Great reader of the game, really needs how to find it. Would someone please tell him not to just belt the ball as far as he can. For someone who works so hard getting it, I'd really love to see if he could find targets. Needs to build his tank top. But rate his ball finding ability.
Jacko Barling, not sure, everyone has caught up to him physically. Needs to reinvent himself, has really good skill set, but he can't play the bully anymore.
Josh Rayner, my mail is he didn't like Crouch at all. I haven't seen a lot of him, my impression was he looked disinterested.
By all accounts is a real talent. Didn't see enough of it to say.
Lachie Swaney. Could play a real role, much like a Crouch or Nick Smith. Huge motor, solid skill set and great work ethic.
Ky McGrath, from what I saw, I thought he was a good decision maker, would like to see more, but on the whole pretty impressed.
Campbell very impressive, only problem I found was he burnt a lot of really good leads and blazed at goals, but knows how to find it, lot of upside to this kid. Let's see how he shapes up next year when he has to be the main man.
Gulden. Really smart player, great work rate. Would like to see him stop the little dabs, follow up and receive. That will get worked out with better players. Really like to see him pick longer targets cause he has an exceptional boot.
There's Harry Parker and McGuire I think I get them mixed up, but one of them I really like.
Zac Youlten like to see a bit more of him as well, seems like a really smart player.
Thanks for your write up. I'm not sure how the drafting will play out. The swans currently have 6 Cat A rookies and 2 Cat B. I think they are allowed a maximum of 6 Cat A and 3 Cat B. I understand there is an irishman who will take a cat B next year. If so the swans are currently maxed out on rookies.

I am not sure any of the academy guys would get drafted straight onto the senior list. The first years who got drafted direct to the senior list last year were blakey, rowbottam, mcinerny and foote. Having watched these guys extensively this year they are definitely a level above the academy guys in both ability and potential. If we assume the next draft group enables the swans to access similar talent then the academy guys will not get senior spots.

The current rookies are:

GamesGoals
NoPlayer NameHtWtDoBDebutRecruited From2019Career2019Career
28Durak Tucker1898209.02.00Bunbury (WA)/Peel Thunder (WAFL)0000
31Harry Reynolds1897411.10.00St Kilda City (Vic)/Brighton Grammar (Vic)/Sandringham U180000
32James Bell1838110.02.99University of NSW-Eastern Suburbs (NSW)0000
41Hayden McLean1979320.01.99Beaumaris (Vic)/St Bede's Coll (Vic)/ Sand U18/Sand (VFL)2200
45Sam Wicks1817314.09.99Manly-Warringah (NSW)/Sydney (NEAFL)0000
46Joel Amartey1979602.09.99Beaumaris (Vic)/Mentone Gram (Vic)/Sandringham U180000
47Toby Pink1959011.08.98Tantanoola (SA)/Glenelg (SANFL)0000
48Michael Knoll20510327.02.93Box Hill Hawks (VFL)/Vermont (Vic)/South Adelaide (SANFL)0000
49Cody Hirst1807219.01.00Lilydale (Vic)/Eastern Ranges U180000

Reynolds has already had an extension. Tucker has been injured all year so unclear, McLean is playing seniors so will not get delisted, Amartey is unclear as his season has been inconsistent, Pink is starting to fire as a defender and odds are he will get another contract, Knoll and Hirst are unclear. Knoll is starting to show signs of improvement, Hirst whilst talented has started to drop off, and his ability to contest is almost zero given his size.

Belly has had an inconsistent year. His last game was his best, but it will be a bit touch and go. Wicks has given it a great crack but it will still be touch and go whether he gets another contract.

I don't see any of the rookies warranting elevation to the senior list. Maybe Maclean. If we assume no one gets elevated but the majority get another run then on balance I could see Hirst perhaps going out. The academy guys would then be in the frame for the spot, however they are up against the players interstate who did not get drafted.

If I was an academy player, and at this stage had no concrete interest from an afl club I would be starting to work out if NDS is the best way or another path.
 

robbieando

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Oct 9, 2001
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Thanks for your write up. I'm not sure how the drafting will play out. The swans currently have 6 Cat A rookies and 2 Cat B. I think they are allowed a maximum of 6 Cat A and 3 Cat B. I understand there is an irishman who will take a cat B next year. If so the swans are currently maxed out on rookies.

I am not sure any of the academy guys would get drafted straight onto the senior list. The first years who got drafted direct to the senior list last year were blakey, rowbottam, mcinerny and foote. Having watched these guys extensively this year they are definitely a level above the academy guys in both ability and potential. If we assume the next draft group enables the swans to access similar talent then the academy guys will not get senior spots.

The current rookies are:

NoPlayer NameHtWtDoBDebutRecruited From2019Career2019Career
GamesGoals
28Durak Tucker1898209.02.00Bunbury (WA)/Peel Thunder (WAFL)0000
31Harry Reynolds1897411.10.00St Kilda City (Vic)/Brighton Grammar (Vic)/Sandringham U180000
32James Bell1838110.02.99University of NSW-Eastern Suburbs (NSW)0000
41Hayden McLean1979320.01.99Beaumaris (Vic)/St Bede's Coll (Vic)/ Sand U18/Sand (VFL)2200
45Sam Wicks1817314.09.99Manly-Warringah (NSW)/Sydney (NEAFL)0000
46Joel Amartey1979602.09.99Beaumaris (Vic)/Mentone Gram (Vic)/Sandringham U180000
47Toby Pink1959011.08.98Tantanoola (SA)/Glenelg (SANFL)0000
48Michael Knoll20510327.02.93Box Hill Hawks (VFL)/Vermont (Vic)/South Adelaide (SANFL)0000
49Cody Hirst1807219.01.00Lilydale (Vic)/Eastern Ranges U180000

Reynolds has already had an extension. Tucker has been injured all year so unclear, McLean is playing seniors so will not get delisted, Amartey is unclear as his season has been inconsistent, Pink is starting to fire as a defender and odds are he will get another contract, Knoll and Hirst are unclear. Knoll is starting to show signs of improvement, Hirst whilst talented has started to drop off, and his ability to contest is almost zero given his size.

Belly has had an inconsistent year. His last game was his best, but it will be a bit touch and go. Wicks has given it a great crack but it will still be touch and go whether he gets another contract.

I don't see any of the rookies warranting elevation to the senior list. Maybe Maclean. If we assume no one gets elevated but the majority get another run then on balance I could see Hirst perhaps going out. The academy guys would then be in the frame for the spot, however they are up against the players interstate who did not get drafted.

If I was an academy player, and at this stage had no concrete interest from an afl club I would be starting to work out if NDS is the best way or another path.
As I explain else where we currently have a 39 man senior list so the most we can take on the rookie list is 5 Cat A rookies and 3 Cat B rookies. We have 7 Cat A rookies (The above list doesn't include Tippett) and 2 Cat B rookie. So we have to cut at least one to get to normal numbers with Tippett already retired. With Barry O'Connor signed from Ireland as a Cat B International rookie one of Bell or Wicks will be cut or promoted to the senior list to allow us to draft an academy player and we'll make big cuts to the Cat A list so we can access the rookie draft. Would also expect the senior list to go back to a 38 man list which will give the rookie list an extra spot.
 

Ralphyboy

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As I explain else where we currently have a 39 man senior list so the most we can take on the rookie list is 5 Cat A rookies and 3 Cat B rookies. We have 7 Cat A rookies (The above list doesn't include Tippett) and 2 Cat B rookie. So we have to cut at least one to get to normal numbers with Tippett already retired. With Barry O'Connor signed from Ireland as a Cat B International rookie one of Bell or Wicks will be cut or promoted to the senior list to allow us to draft an academy player and we'll make big cuts to the Cat A list so we can access the rookie draft. Would also expect the senior list to go back to a 38 man list which will give the rookie list an extra spot.
Thanks for clarifying. I guess my point is that the swans would be unlikely to upgrade wicks or bell to senior list. Then the question is whether they think any of the academy talent (or interstate talent) would make it worth their while to cut bell or wicks to make a spot. I'm not sure the current academy crop would push them to delist bell or wicks to make a spot.
 

robbieando

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Oct 9, 2001
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Thanks for clarifying. I guess my point is that the swans would be unlikely to upgrade wicks or bell to senior list. Then the question is whether they think any of the academy talent (or interstate talent) would make it worth their while to cut bell or wicks to make a spot. I'm not sure the current academy crop would push them to delist bell or wicks to make a spot.
Bell from my understanding of the rookie list rules can only stay on the rookie list next year as a Cat A rookie. So that question might be out of their hands
 

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TheMase

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Jul 20, 2001
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I hope we keep Bell moving him to a Cat A Rookie. He has played well this year and had a top notch game and showed a lot of leadership in the last game.
Needs to finish the year out well. Should get plenty of centre time this week again with most of the mids that have been in front of him all year are in seniors.

Bell, Wicks and ... I don’t know, maybe McInerney or Foot for most centre bounces?!?
Slim pickings!!
 

Formguide

Draftee
Mar 14, 2019
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Hawthorn
Would have to be disappointing results again with the state and rookie combines released today. Considering all the hype about this year group only 2 players making the combine.
 

BloodySwan

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Oct 2, 2016
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I don't get why anyone is dissapointed when academy players don't get invited to the combine. From my understanding a player only gets invited when 5 clubs want to see more of him? So;
-Why would Sydney want to see more of a player they already know about?
-Why would a club look into a player which the Swans have first dibs on?

With those two it should always be less likely a kid from the academy is invited to the combine
 

Blood red

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Sep 12, 2018
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I don't get why anyone is dissapointed when academy players don't get invited to the combine. From my understanding a player only gets invited when 5 clubs want to see more of him? So;
-Why would Sydney want to see more of a player they already know about?
-Why would a club look into a player which the Swans have first dibs on?

With those two it should always be less likely a kid from the academy is invited to the combine
I guess it is more the fact that the Swans Academy is not just a place for the Swans to cherry pick a couple of kids a year for their purposes, but a place where the 18 year olds have been working since they were 11.
This year's group goes pretty deep, but the list still only has 2 or 3 spots available.
So from an organisations point of view, it's a good spot to take the best.
But from a player's point of view, the other 7 or 8 who are potentially draftable, they are forgotten.
 

Ralphyboy

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I guess it is more the fact that the Swans Academy is not just a place for the Swans to cherry pick a couple of kids a year for their purposes, but a place where the 18 year olds have been working since they were 11.
This year's group goes pretty deep, but the list still only has 2 or 3 spots available.
So from an organisations point of view, it's a good spot to take the best.
But from a player's point of view, the other 7 or 8 who are potentially draftable, they are forgotten.
My understanding is that the Academy believes it is a success if an Academy player gets drafted to another club. That is why they supported and pushed for the return to under 18s in the NAB cup , and why they pushed Crouch onto the Allies coaching panel. The issue is that the other clubs are just not that interested unfortunately. This is the same experience the other academies have.

Subject to what might happen with a national reserves comp it will be interesting to see where NEAFL goes. The four Academies are pumping classy talent into the NEAFL, and contrary to what some might say, I believe the standard is going up. Looking at the comp some of the latest stars like Angus Baker or Bailey Stewart are recent Academy graduates. I read a recent thread where a poster was indicating that the Brisbane NEAFL side would pretty comfortably beat most SANFL sides. In my view we should have more interaction with SANFL, WAFL and VFL even if it is an Allies type side. This might raise the profile more.
 

caesar88

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Apr 26, 2016
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I’ve noticed Bell’s video finding about his debut/informing his mum has been doing the rounds in the Vic media. They don’t mind the Academy when it produces players only good enough to be rookie listed! :rolleyes:

Hope Bell makes them sulk by the time their weekend wrap-up begins on Monday!
 

ScottBo

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Aug 17, 2009
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Sounds like you may be a disgruntled parent? Know a lot about the Easts boys. Let Smithy get on with it.. yes there some golden tickets, that’s life! if the boys get through the system well done!
He may well be but Cynic has supplied a comprehensive read on his take of the players. If you have a different opinion we'd all love to read it.

I saw Max Geddes play a few years ago and rarely seen a kid dominate a game like it. Thought the only knock on him then might be pace.
 

Ralphyboy

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OK the last 3 pages made for horror reading.

All I can say is I hope they know what the **** they are doing up there. Hate to see kids potential being doused by the very system that is supposed to help them.
To be honest I don't agree with some of the very negative posts in the last three pages. I do however respect the right of people to post their honestly held views and I am happy to take them on board. I think you would find people who have been burnt or feel they have been burnt by every elite sports program in every sport. I've heard the same criticisms in the context of olympic programs where you would expect everything is as good as it can be.

The fact is that assessing talent is incredibly subjective and ever changing. A 12 year old gun may be an 18 year old dud. An 18 year old gun might be missing unseen critical elements that render him not draftable. Also the swans academy and the swans might simply get it wrong and make mistakes.

What I do know is that a player has to own his own future and concentrate only on the things he can control. Great examples include guys like Angus Baker who has been knocked back several times with injuries yet keeps performing at a level that suggests he should be drafted.

As a parent I know I have to teach my kid to own the outcomes and not blame the system or others. When his time is up, whether reasonable or a mistake, it is up to him to regroup and move forward, even if that means not achieving AFL level.
 
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