Mega Thread Official thread for Footscray Vs Western Bulldogs name discussion

[Woof]

I agree with Bob who summed it up perfectly but I would prefer to be Western Bulldogs with current jumper than Footscray with Robodog.

 

[footscray1973]

I'm not sure I follow...

I think you meant "parity", not "parody". I've seen it done once before on this board, and it changed the entire meaning of that particular post, but that was several years ago.

 

[TBOW]

I have a friend that at one point thought the Western Bulldogs were a Western Australian side. I laughed.

To be honest that is the problem with the name 'Western' in a national competition.
Western is a direction not a place and as far as the A in AFL goes we are very much Eastern.

I was a young supporter when we changed and felt a bit gutted at the time - it felt like the first step in losing our identity.
However in hindsight I recognise that we needed to change direction and break the mould, even if it was just in a mental or even spiritual way, and I'm not sure that we would have achieved what we have in the past decade if we were still Footscray.

I would like to see the name Footscray return but I want that to be at a time when the club is rock solid on and off the field - preferably with another flag or two under the belt. To me that is still a 5 - 10 year proposition.

 

[Timewillcome]

Just listened to Bob discussing this. The name has always been a sticking point for many as it was never voted in, and seemed to be something Smorgan wanted as it was if coming from Footscray was something shameful and unmarketable to sponsors.

I always hear that Footscray is just a name, so why change it back. Same reason can be said for changing it in the first place.

I'm not a fan of the "Western" as I believe it is meaningless, its not even Western Suburbs Bulldogs. Its confusing in a national competition.

Marketing reasons were the reason for the change. We haven't departed from anything other than the name in terms of the culture of the club and it can be argued the name Western made no difference to the success or failure.

We should be on a path to returning it sooner rather than later. Tradition is what builds clubs and gives them strength to survive hard times. Without it, they are easily relocated or closed.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't love 'Western' but I understand the strategic reason for changing it in the first place, and I think the ship has now sailed given there's a generation of fans now who have known nothing but Western.

If I had the choice I would change it back but I really can't see that happening, particularly now that we play all of our games at Docklands instead of Whitten Oval.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Just listened to Bob discussing this. The name has always been a sticking point for many as it was never voted in, and seemed to be something Smorgan wanted as it was if coming from Footscray was something shameful and unmarketable to sponsors.

I always hear that Footscray is just a name, so why change it back. Same reason can be said for changing it in the first place.

I'm not a fan of the "Western" as I believe it is meaningless, its not even Western Suburbs Bulldogs. Its confusing in a national competition.

Marketing reasons were the reason for the change. We haven't departed from anything other than the name in terms of the culture of the club and it can be argued the name Western made no difference to the success or failure.

We should be on a path to returning it sooner rather than later. Tradition is what builds clubs and gives them strength to survive hard times. Without it, they are easily relocated or closed.

Western Suburbs Bulldogs is hardly catchy though is it?

 

[Virgin Dog]

Western Suburbs Bulldogs is hardly catchy though is it?

I kinda wonder at times why we didn't go with West Melbourne, Western Melbourne or something like that. Just straight up "Western" is an odd choice when the team is located on the eastern side of the country in a national league

 

[dogwatch]

... The name has always been a sticking point for many as it was never voted in, and seemed to be something Smorgan wanted as it was if coming from Footscray was something shameful and unmarketable to sponsors.

...

I kinda wonder at times why we didn't go with West Melbourne, Western Melbourne or something like that. Just straight up "Western" is an odd choice when the team is located on the eastern side of the country in a national league

I'm pretty sure as members we received a questionnaire at the time (mid 90s) asking us for our views and what we thought would be a good name if we dropped the Footscray tag. I think I suggested Maribyrnong as being broader than Footscray and yet distinctively regional. Thinking about it now that probably wouldn't have worked either.

Perhaps it wasn't a factor at the time but the push into the outer western suburbs of Melbourne, the Ballarat presence and staking out GWV is now a legitimate objection to moving back to Footscray. (Yes, but Richmond, Collingwood, etc ...)

I didn't like the name change back then and don't love it even now but TBH I'm over it.

Go Dogs!

 

[Marbyriver]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone call us Western Bulldogs, apart from commentators and news reporters. Would love it if we returned to Footscray. Even though I was only young when the name changed, it feels right to return to our original name.

 

[fred cook]

The Footscray Hipsters football club how could we go wrong

 

[Leon]

I love Murph and I love the name Footscray.

The Western Bulldogs name has allowed better opportunities for us and allowed us to grow more, so keep it.

 

[TBOW]

I'm pretty sure as members we received a questionnaire at the time (mid 90s) asking us for our views and what we thought would be a good name if we dropped the Footscray tag. I think I suggested Maribyrnong as being broader than Footscray and yet distinctively regional. Thinking about it now that probably wouldn't have worked either.

Perhaps it wasn't a factor at the time but the push into the outer western suburbs of Melbourne, the Ballarat presence and staking out GWV is now a legitimate objection to moving back to Footscray. (Yes, but Richmond, Collingwood, etc ...)

I didn't like the name change back then and don't love it even now but TBH I'm over it.

Go Dogs!

I remember in I think 96 getting a questionnaire where we had to rank what was most important to us as members.
The options were something like:
The name Footscray
The club location
The mascot Bulldogs
The jumper colours
The players at the time
Maybe even the theme song?

I just remember the impending fear that we were going to be merged.

 

[dogwatch]

I remember in I think 96 getting a questionnaire where we had to rank what was most important to us as members.
The options were something like:
The name Footscray
The club location
The mascot Bulldogs
The jumper colours
The players at the time
Maybe even the theme song?

I just remember the impending fear that we were going to be merged.

That was the one. Pretty sure it asked - or at least allowed - suggestions for the new name.

 

[TBOW]

That was the one. Pretty sure it asked - or at least allowed - suggestions for the new name.

Yeah that does sound familiar.

 

[SonOfScray]

I love Murph and I love the name Footscray.

The Western Bulldogs name has allowed better opportunities for us and allowed us to grow more, so keep it.

We’ll never know how directly those opportunities and growth were linked to the rebrand because there was a lot of changes all at once. The rebrand was flawed, the rest of it hit the mark.

so much water has gone under the bridge, I am not as staunch in my view that it must change back. But I hate the idea that somehow we weren’t the team of the west prior to the change, that’s just incorrect.

at least the club is no longer hostile towards our own name.

 

[Fossie 32]

I think you meant "parity", not "parody". I've seen it done once before on this board, and it changed the entire meaning of that particular post, but that was several years ago.

We could regain parody if we got Danny McGilvray to do the banners again

 

[Freshwater]

Bob Murphy came out today on SEN and said how he longed for the day the Western Bulldogs changed their name back to Footscray...
I'm 100% on this and can only see positives... Western Bulldogs is a manufactured product whilst Footscray is a spirit as Bob put it so eloquently.
I know there are some on here that are adamant that they want the name to stay Western Bulldogs but after hearing SEN I now think that those WB Lovers are the vocal minority and I hope to god they get shouted down sooner rather than later.
Here's a link to the radio show so you can listen and make sure you listen to the callers who are all 100% on board for the change back.

Time to go back to Footscray - Bob Murphy

Bob Murphy would like to see the Western Bulldogs go back to being called Footscray

player.whooshkaa.com

So Bob Murphy is conservative sometimes.

 

[Guido]

I think the ship has now sailed given there's a generation of fans now who have known nothing but Western.

Using this logic, the ship should never have sailed with 6 generations of fans knowing nothing but Footscray.

I've completely flipped. I was a fan of changing the name in order to expand our appeal and horizons, defended the decision to the hilt on the original official Western Bulldogs forum and on here (felt like the debate was held monthly, there were people who literally refused to buy memberships over the issue, many life time supporters literally never returned).

Now, looking back at that kind of decision without even a consideration of a members vote seems so unfair and undemocratic to the people who literally kept the club alive. If you don't think it's unfair, just imagine that the current board changed our colours overnight without consultation. To "expand business opportunities and the club's marketing reach". Most of us would probably accept it and continue as members, but that kind of lack of consultation is a kick in the teeth.

I'd be supportive of a vote of members on whether our senior teams continue as Footscray or Western. Might split us into for/against/ambivalent for a couple of months, but after it no matter the result, I think we'd come together quickly, and knowing we all had a say, respect the decision of our people and hopefully forever put the issue to bed.

 

[Leon]

We’ll never know how directly those opportunities and growth were linked to the rebrand because there was a lot of changes all at once. The rebrand was flawed, the rest of it hit the mark.

so much water has gone under the bridge, I am not as staunch in my view that it must change back. But I hate the idea that somehow we weren’t the team of the west prior to the change, that’s just incorrect.

at least the club is no longer hostile towards our own name.

I agree with this.

I also resent the negativity that used to be directed towards the name Footscray. I’m proud to come from Footscray and to have called myself a Footscray supporter (I still am a Footscray supporter but you get what I mean)

Put it this way, back in 1996 when we changed the name, things were so bleak at the club that if you’d told me that we could survive as an independent club, playing in Melbourne, but the catch was we’d have to not play our hone games at the WO and we’d be called the Western Bulldogs instead of Footscray, I’d have jumped at it.

I do think that the name Western Bulldogs has allowed us to market ourselves as the club of the western suburbs and capture supporters beyond the Footscray area.

I’m always passionately in favour of things that allow the club to grow stronger so, although Footscray is easily my personally preferred name, the historical and traditional name and the name that I proudly grew up supporting, if the name Western Bulldogs allows us to grow stronger I’m in favour of it staying.

 

[D Mitchell]

Unfortunate choice of a single word there - is it a typo, or deliberate?

What's a confusion of plosives between friends ? Well spotted, Bruce

 

[GetDimmaBack]

I agree with this.

I also resent the negativity that used to be directed towards the name Footscray. I’m proud to come from Footscray and to have called myself a Footscray supporter (I still am a Footscray supporter but you get what I mean)

Put it this way, back in 1996 when we changed the name, things were so bleak at the club that if you’d told me that we could survive as an independent club, playing in Melbourne, but the catch was we’d have to not play our hone games at the WO and we’d be called the Western Bulldogs instead of Footscray, I’d have jumped at it.

I do think that the name Western Bulldogs has allowed us to market ourselves as the club of the western suburbs and capture supporters beyond the Footscray area.

I’m always passionately in favour of things that allow the club to grow stronger so, although Footscray is easily my personally preferred name, the historical and traditional name and the name that I proudly grew up supporting, if the name Western Bulldogs allows us to grow stronger I’m in favour of it staying.

Well said, Leon

 

[D Mitchell]

..

I do think that the name Western Bulldogs has allowed us to market ourselves as the club of the western suburbs and capture supporters beyond the Footscray area.

In 1996, the Club was broke. The coach, Joyce, whose father had played for the Club, had coached Hawthorn to a Premiership as a caretaker coach, had lost the players (a story for another day). The Board sent out a questionnaire to members on mergers, we were, apparently, close to a deal with North the proposed name for the Footscray-North Melbourne merged club was going to be the Western Bulldogs. The questionnaire asked members to rank the elements of our identity to preserve in a merger. The Footscray name was top priority, daylight second.

So Smorgo rocked up with his considerably more accomplished and capable Board, agreed to take over but under the condition that the name' Western' was adopted. The Members were never consulted, presumably why it's a trading name, not a name change, you need 75 % of voters for that. The 1996 Board jibbed it. Under the circumstances, I can't, individually, blame them, Gordon, Fitzpatrick, Feehan and that other genuinely approachable young bloke from ICI, can't remember his name, et alia, all still very young, inexperienced, still making their ways in the world and not ready to or capable of shouldering the responsibility for the Club's future. I thank them for stepping up when they did and blame the older heads around the place for not stepping up. There were individuals in Footscray who personally guaranteed the Club's debts, including the much and unfairly maligned Nick C.....Smorgo's Board included a fat bloke with a pony tail, some marketing whiz. I reckon it was his spin that did it, I could be wrong.

No other club did what we did, traded its soul for a marketing gimmick. The Club insulted the old supporters by publicly saying that the name Footscray had such negative connotations. It was a cheap cop out. It took the Club 29 years to win its first Flag. For all the whiz bang marketing gimmicks, it still took the Club another 20 years from 1996, to win its second.

You don't capture supporters beyond the Footscray area by changing your name, you do it by cultivating the next generation of footscray dwellers and hard marketing work. Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Carlton recruit their members from descendants of the old inner Melbourne dwellers, brand, success and from the whole of the Continent, not just a region of Melbourne. If you really want to increase members, though, you hold yourself out as a Club with integrity, pride in its past and which achieves success by work and achievement, not cheap marketing tools.

Absolutely no offence intended and with respect, Leon, I can't agree that the adoption of a trading name achieved anything at all in terms of memberships that would not have been achieved had the adoption not been made.

 

[Dry Rot]

I personally don't mind either way.

Same here.

Just as long as we don't engage another marketing or branding w***er who comes up with the name The Western Giants for us.

 

[D Mitchell]

Same here.

Just as long as we don't engage another marketing or branding w***er who comes up with the name The Western Giants for us.

No more fat blokes with pony tails

 

[dogwatch]

In 1996, the Club was broke. The coach, Joyce, whose father had played for the Club, had coached Hawthorn to a Premiership as a caretaker coach, had lost the players (a story for another day). The Board sent out a questionnaire to members on mergers, we were, apparently, close to a deal with North the proposed name for the Footscray-North Melbourne merged club was going to be the Western Bulldogs. The questionnaire asked members to rank the elements of our identity to preserve in a merger. The Footscray name was top priority, daylight second.

So Smorgo rocked up with his considerably more accomplished and capable Board, agreed to take over but under the condition that the name' Western' was adopted. The Members were never consulted, presumably why it's a trading name, not a name change, you need 75 % of voters for that. The 1996 Board jibbed it. Under the circumstances, I can't, individually, blame them, Gordon, Fitzpatrick, Feehan and that other genuinely approachable young bloke from ICI, can't remember his name, et alia, all still very young, inexperienced, still making their ways in the world and not ready to or capable of shouldering the responsibility for the Club's future. I thank them for stepping up when they did and blame the older heads around the place for not stepping up. There were individuals in Footscray who personally guaranteed the Club's debts, including the much and unfairly maligned Nick C.....Smorgo's Board included a fat bloke with a pony tail, some marketing whiz. I reckon it was his spin that did it, I could be wrong.

No other club did what we did, traded its soul for a marketing gimmick. The Club insulted the old supporters by publicly saying that the name Footscray had such negative connotations. It was a cheap cop out. It took the Club 29 years to win its first Flag. For all the whiz bang marketing gimmicks, it still took the Club another 20 years from 1996, to win its second.

You don't capture supporters beyond the Footscray area by changing your name, you do it by cultivating the next generation of footscray dwellers and hard marketing work. Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Carlton recruit their members from descendants of the old inner Melbourne dwellers, brand, success and from the whole of the Continent, not just a region of Melbourne. If you really want to increase members, though, you hold yourself out as a Club with integrity, pride in its past and which achieves success by work and achievement, not cheap marketing tools.

Absolutely no offence intended and with respect, Leon, I can't agree that the adoption of a trading name achieved anything at all in terms of memberships that would not have been achieved had the adoption not been made.

Good post DM.

You make some good observations but what you didn't mention was the feeling of the day and how that drove the thinking of the main actors and the humble fans alike.

South Melbourne had been unceremoniously scuttled in the early 80s. Ross Oakley thought he had us stitched up in 1989. So much of a fait accomplis was it that even the fiercely loyal EJ Whitten said there was nothing we could do - we just had to go with the merger. Then our unrequited merge partner Fitzroy died suddenly and its remains were shipped off to Queensland to be reincarnated as the Brisbane Lions as a sop to the grieving Lions fans.

The AFL was keen to expand to a broad-based national stage and to do that it had the stragglers of the old VFL firmly in its sights.

In that context mere survival was everything and Smorgon was a knight in shining armour. Whatever it took to survive was OK for nearly all of us, as long as we still had our footy club. (I love that video clip of the old bloke breaking down in tears saying "I thought I was going to lose my footy club" - that's as visceral as it gets).

Yes it may have been a marketing gimmick but it's too hard to unpick the threads a quarter of a century later and say for certain we'd still be here if we'd kept the Footscray name.

I was disappointed - I still am to a fair degree - but I don't believe we sold our soul.