Offseason illicit drug tests - now with new thread title

Feb 24, 2008
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Don't get me wrong, I completely agree here.

I just hate the perception that drug taking is fine...just as long as nobody finds out. Carlisle cops a ban despite taking drugs out of season, yet there are obviously dozens of others who escape criticism or punishment.

I'd rather the AFL take a strong stance and lead the way in showing the community that it is unacceptable. I don't care if it's the hardest drug policy in the world. Let's change the culture.

I agree- it shouldn't be 'we have a three strike policy unless the drug taking is seen by the public'. Stick with the three strikes, or get rid of it and punish the individuals accordingly. You can't choose to punish just based on outcry, their own drug policy is a joke and made up on the go.

Carlisle ****ed up, but he should've just gotten a strike under the current rules imo.
 

marty36

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I agree- it shouldn't be 'we have a three strike policy unless the drug taking is seen by the public'. Stick with the three strikes, or get rid of it and punish the individuals accordingly. You can't choose to punish just based on outcry, their own drug policy is a joke and made up on the go.

Carlisle stuffed up, but he should've just gotten a strike under the current rules imo.


Correct it needs to be consistent.

But it would be easier for the AFL to have it in their contracts that all players must be subject to hair tests monthly then their would no no hiding, and Carlisle would have gotten punishment! If they don't agree they cannot be drafted or play in the AFL.
 

BRWB

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I'd much prefer the clubs be advised at the 1st strike. I believe that's what the clubs want too. It allows them to apply discipline and control the matters.

I'd prefer illicit testing was scrapped. It's none of our, or their employer's, business what players do out of competition. Frankly surprised players agree to this invasion of their privacy.

Comply with WADA that's enough.
 

marty36

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I'd prefer illicit testing was scrapped. It's none of our, or their employer's, business what players do out of competition. Frankly surprised players agree to this invasion of their privacy.

Comply with WADA that's enough.


To protect the brand the AFL needs to step in place work contracts in place that allows them to test hair monthly, it's no different from other rules they place on the players. In fact the draft is worse telling a player you can play for us but you must move states at 18 from your family otherwise you can't play AFL! Another rule to protect the brand in making the teams even!
 

BRWB

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To protect the brand the AFL needs to step in place work contracts in place that allows them to test hair monthly, it's no different from other rules they place on the players. In fact the draft is worse telling a player you can play for us but you must move states at 18 from your family otherwise you can't play AFL! Another rule to protect the brand in making the teams even!

Completely disagree re brand protection. Pro codes like NBA or NFL don't even comply with WADA - let alone some illicit drug code. And their brands do quite well.

And if you are worried about young adults leaving home - I'd say harden up.

In the 20th century people that age were sent off to fight wars and die. Leaving home on $70k a yr is piss easy. Try it on Austudy - which is what any rural uni student does.

Fair dinkum most of the draftees are 18, old enough to root, drink, smoke, buy a gun or a car - but they need an illicit drug code to protect them??

You're having a lend.
 

marty36

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Completely disagree re brand protection. Pro codes like NBA or NFL don't even comply with WADA - let alone some illicit drug code. And their brands do quite well.

And if you are worried about young adults leaving home - I'd say harden up.

In the 20th century people that age were sent off to fight wars and die. Leaving home on $70k a yr is piss easy. Try it on Austudy - which is what any rural uni student does.

Fair dinkum most of the draftees are 18, old enough to root, drink, smoke, buy a gun or a car - but they need an illicit drug code to protect them??

You're having a lend.


Hahaha when you have a population of 200 million against 23 million and only about 3 million follow AFL it's pretty damn obvious why those sports you mention don't give a toss The AFL against those sports you mentioned is like a pimple on a camels back.

If the AFL want their brand protected which they do with other aspects of the rules they set, just tell the players sign the agreement or piss off go do something else. If you truly believe that seeing what Bennell and Carslisle have done didn't discredit the brand then you simply are being argumentative. That would be stamped out with a monthly hair test with the penalty that suits the AFL if found guilty.

The players need to be prepared to accept responsibility in protecting the brand as they share in the spoils!
 

BRWB

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Hahaha when you have a population of 200 million against 23 million and only about 3 million follow AFL it's pretty damn obvious why those sports you mention don't give a toss The AFL against those sports you mentioned is like a pimple on a camels back.

If the AFL want their brand protected which they do with other aspects of the rules they set, just tell the players sign the agreement or piss off go do something else. If you truly believe that seeing what Bennell and Carslisle have done didn't discredit the brand then you simply are being argumentative. That would be stamped out with a monthly hair test with the penalty that suits the AFL if found guilty.

The players need to be prepared to accept responsibility in protecting the brand as they share in the spoils!

Guess we disagree. I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability. I'm totally against the nanny state you are proposing under the very suspect cover of brand protection (ie no other code needs it, neither do our lawmakers, our law enforcers, or employees of our top 500 companies).

In fact what I suspect is that there are people with an ideological anti-drugs viewpoint attempting to force their views on others. It reminds me of religious fanaticism, and I don't particularly care for it.
 

marty36

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Guess we disagree. I'm all for personal responsibility and accountability. I'm totally against the nanny state you are proposing under the very suspect cover of brand protection (ie no other code needs it, neither do our lawmakers, our law enforcers, or employees of our top 500 companies).

In fact what I suspect is that there are people with an ideological anti-drugs viewpoint attempting to force their views on others. It reminds me of religious fanaticism, and I don't particularly care for it.


Really ?

http://www.nrl.com/nrl-committed-to...testing/tabid/10874/newsid/84092/default.aspx
 

BRWB

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I don't give a s**t that most others don't have a code as strict. I'd prefer the AFL to lead the way. Perhaps it will help change the culture if a player gets a 4 match whack every time he tests positive. Then hopefully it has a flow on effect into the community.
 

marty36

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marty36

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Ok mate - very few (read hardly any) sporting codes have need of a illicit drugs code.

So far you've offered up protect the draftees and brand protection as reasons for an illicit drug code. Neither make sense to me for reasons stated previously.


We could continue to research but these sports don't have the profile or $$$$ of AFL.

Seriously can't you see how detrimental it is to the AFL to have Carlisle or Bennell posting pictures of themselves snorting white powder, maybe not for 10 % of the population that accepts this behaviour but 90 % of the population doesn't!

If there were hair tested and punished with a ban do you think they would take those risks?
 

JohnnyFontane90

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We could continue to research but these sports don't have the profile or $$$$ of AFL.

Seriously can't you see how detrimental it is to the AFL to have Carlisle or Bennell posting pictures of themselves snorting white powder, maybe not for 10 % of the population that accepts this behaviour but 90 % of the population doesn't!

If there were hair tested and punished with a ban do you think they would take those risks?

the cynic in me says harley bennell got that photo released on purpose because he wanted a way to go to fremantle.
 

marty36

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the cynic in me says harley bennell got that photo released on purpose because he wanted a way to go to fremantle.


How many clubs would have wanted him if the AFL decided after what he did and testing him he coped a 12 month suspension, with the next being a life ban?

I believe the AfL should set the time for the crime!

Do you think he would have posted such a pic? And risk no one wanting him!
 

BRWB

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We could continue to research but these sports don't have the profile or $$$$ of AFL.

Seriously can't you see how detrimental it is to the AFL to have Carlisle or Bennell posting pictures of themselves snorting white powder, maybe not for 10 % of the population that accepts this behaviour but 90 % of the population doesn't!

If they were hair tested and punished with a ban do you think they would take those risks?

You have made me aware of some sports with an illicit drugs code. Thanks.

And perhaps we should redefine the terms of our discussion.

Yes Illicit drugs are not a good look. And frankly I'd be happy with a policy that says you are subject to the WADA Code in competition. And if you are publicly caught/successfully prosecuted doing illicit drugs at any time then you will be deemed as having brought the game into disrepute and x will occur. That is all.

I don't accept that out of competition testing and in particular hair testing should be adopted. Its not our business as employers or as the public to test any group like this unless it's in competition (ie on the job) It's invasive, breaches players privacy, and IMO serves little purpose other than giving parasitic journalists extra fodder. Any presumed preventative benefit (which is debatable) is outweighed by these considerations IMO.
 

marty36

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You have made me aware of some sports with an illicit drugs code. Thanks.

And perhaps we should redefine the terms of our discussion.

Yes Illicit drugs are not a good look. And frankly I'd be happy with a policy that says you are subject to the WADA Code in competition. And if you are publicly caught/successfully prosecuted doing illicit drugs at any time then you will be deemed as having brought the game into disrepute and x will occur. That is all.

I don't accept that out of competition testing and in particular hair testing should be adopted. Its not our business as employers or as the public to test any group like this unless it's in competition (ie on the job) It's invasive, breaches players privacy, and IMO serves little purpose other than giving parasitic journalists extra fodder. Any presumed preventative benefit (which is debatable) is outweighed by these considerations IMO.


Other sports do it as the ones I have mentioned as they want to protect the brand or as they say the integrity of their sport

The weird thing is the AFL have so many more reasons to protect their brand as the economy of AFL eclipses those other sports and stands to lose a great deal more in Terms of lost sponsorship. No different to Jay Schulz being done DUI and then sacked by Richmond as they were sponsored by the drink driving campaign and stood to lose a major sponsor if he wasn't!
 

BRWB

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Other sports do it as the ones I have mentioned as they want to protect the brand or as they say the integrity of their sport

The weird thing is the AFL have so many more reasons to protect their brand as the economy of AFL eclipses those other sports and stands to lose a great deal more in Terms of lost sponsorship. No different to Jay Schulz being done DUI and then sacked by Richmond as they were sponsored by the drink driving campaign and stood to lose a major sponsor if he wasn't!

If a player is stupid or unlucky enough to be caught even out of competition by all means punish them. Otherwise leave it alone - no need to go actively searching for it and trample individual rights in the process.
 

marty36

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If a player is stupid or unlucky enough to be caught even out of competition by all means punish them. Otherwise leave it alone - no need to go actively searching for it and trample individual rights in the process.

You could call it preventative management so the minority of dipshits dont do what Carlisle and Bennell have done and may think twice! The idea of doing it will be targeting a minority who have no regard for the competition and it's image!
 

JohnnyFontane90

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How many clubs would have wanted him if the AFL decided after what he did and testing him he coped a 12 month suspension, with the next being a life ban?

I believe the AfL should set the time for the crime!

Do you think he would have posted such a pic? And risk no one wanting him!

no it's none of the AFLs business unless it becomes a public issue. when things surface like this they have to deal with it because of sponsors etc but i really don't think they need to go looking for trouble by hair testing players. it serves nobody any good. the AFL wants it's best players out there, the players wanna get on it in the off season and frankly when it's in season the players are as professional as anyone. if bennell never got caught you would never suspect him or dane swan or anyone else was doing drugs in the off season. it's only a problem because it got leaked.

if clubs want to implement their own in-season testing regimes to make sure players are making every effort to be as healthy and productive as possible then that's fine because to do illicit drugs in season would be a violation of their agreement as employer to employee.

players have to be smarter (and for the most part they are) about letting it go public. punishment or not leaking a photo like that is such an incredibly dumb thing to do that no one in their right mind would ever do it which is why i'm particularly cynical about that event.
 

BRWB

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You could call it preventative management so the minority of dipshits dont do what Carlisle and Bennell have done and may think twice! The idea of doing it will be targeting a minority who have no regard for the competition and it's image!

Perhaps we should microchip them so they don't go anywhere they shouldn't or stay out too late. Perhaps we put cameras in their homes to stop domestic violence. Perhaps put breatho devices on their cars.

All preventative measures.
 

marty36

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no it's none of the AFLs business unless it becomes a public issue. when things surface like this they have to deal with it because of sponsors etc but i really don't think they need to go looking for trouble by hair testing players. it serves nobody any good. the AFL wants it's best players out there, the players wanna get on it in the off season and frankly when it's in season the players are as professional as anyone. if bennell never got caught you would never suspect him or dane swan or anyone else was doing drugs in the off season. it's only a problem because it got leaked.

if clubs want to implement their own in-season testing regimes to make sure players are making every effort to be as healthy and productive as possible then that's fine because to do illicit drugs in season would be a violation of their agreement as employer to employee.

players have to be smarter (and for the most part they are) about letting it go public. punishment or not leaking a photo like that is such an incredibly dumb thing to do that no one in their right mind would ever do it which is why i'm particularly cynical about that event.


I listened to Reiwoldt on the subject, he is fine with testing probably because he doesn't take rec drugs, as would the majority of the competition who also don't care to see idiots get caught out. It's pretty obvious that if the dipshits of the comp are taking illegal drugs they will be caught out with photographic evidence eventually! As the NRL player was caught out with the animal being filmed by a third party! To prevent this from occurring and damaging the image of the sport, the AFL needs to take matters into their own hands and set contracts that need to be complied with, where there is no avoiding getting caught and banned, hair testing is clearly the solution, it can't be avoided. So by taking illegal drugs you are signing away your career.

How many do you think will take the punt and face a guaranteed suspension?

If they do, they are actually dumber than I thought!
 

JohnnyFontane90

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I listened to Reiwoldt on the subject, he is fine with testing probably because he doesn't take rec drugs, as would the majority of the competition who also don't care to see idiots get caught out. It's pretty obvious that if the dipshits of the comp are taking illegal drugs they will be caught out with photographic evidence eventually! As the NRL player was caught out with the animal being filmed by a third party! To prevent this from occurring and damaging the image of the sport, the AFL needs to take matters into their own hands and set contracts that need to be complied with, where there is no avoiding getting caught and banned, hair testing is clearly the solution, it can't be avoided. So by taking illegal drugs you are signing away your career.

How many do you think will take the punt and face a guaranteed suspension?

If they do, they are actually dumber than I thought!

photographic evidence of drug use is exceedingly rare. when people are doing drugs it would be very unorthodox for someone to pull out their phone and start snapping. that would be met with disdain from pretty much everyone involved. i wouldn't expect that to happen very often regardless of the punishment.

i personally don't see the big deal. even the clubs are only really concerned about it from a public relations point of view. i bet if bennell hadn't limited his options to WA every club in the AFL would have had a crack at signing him. none even really cares about the photo. i would have taken him in a heartbeat at carlton.

the harm from illegal drugs comes from addiction. now if you test players during the season that will reveal an addiction and then the club can address it. but doing a few party drugs in the off season isn't much different to getting on the piss.

your rationale of hair testing players every month and banning them if they test positive is the equivalent to using a wrecking ball to kill a fly.
 

marty36

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photographic evidence of drug use is exceedingly rare. when people are doing drugs it would be very unorthodox for someone to pull out their phone and start snapping. that would be met with disdain from pretty much everyone involved. i wouldn't expect that to happen very often regardless of the punishment.

i personally don't see the big deal. even the clubs are only really concerned about it from a public relations point of view. i bet if bennell hadn't limited his options to WA every club in the AFL would have had a crack at signing him. none even really cares about the photo. i would have taken him in a heartbeat at carlton.

the harm from illegal drugs comes from addiction. now if you test players during the season that will reveal an addiction and then the club can address it. but doing a few party drugs in the off season isn't much different to getting on the piss.

your rationale of hair testing players every month and banning them if they test positive is the equivalent to using a wrecking ball to kill a fly.


It's no way the same as using a wrecking ball, test them every month with hair testing and there is no avoiding the consequences! Everyone will be treated the same!

And as for people wanting to photograph the players, I would do it in a heartbeat if I could sell the photo to the media for $20k and how many dumbo players would get themselves caught in this position whilst high?

As for you not caring, what about the thousands of 50 plus year olds or parents with young children following their idols, it puts a huge strain on the brand when this part of your target audience starts to think poorly of your product because of a minority of players who are dumb enough to get caught. Easy solution is to get rid of the problem or control them with a full proof method of catching them out and setting hard punishments!!
 

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Hair test them, if they test positive, they cop a 4 match H&A ban. Easy. It's hardline without being career threatening and defuses the situation.

If you don't agree with testing on leave, test them when they get back.
 
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