AFLW Offseason List Changes

[Pykie]

No did I say it was dictating the league?

It's all well and good to have no salary cap in its infancy but for this league to be taken seriously it has to be run seriously.

I also think they should all get full time wages under a salary cap.

Full time wages for what?


They aren't full time athletes. AFL players train and play 6 days a week, 9-5.

The girls have 3 training sessions a week (at night usually) and a game.


They are essentially suburban footballers at the moment, even then, the competition is only 7 weeks long.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Reported that Jess Duffin and Jasmine Garner (Collingwood) have moved to North Melbourne.

 

[jackess]

Full time wages for what?


They aren't full time athletes.


They are essentially suburban footballers at the moment, even then, the competition is 7 weeks long.

It's hard to be a full time athlete without full time wages.

The competition was 8 weeks long this year. It'll be longer next year and even longer in 2020. There's also preseason. AFL footballers don't work only 6 months a year.

In order to lift the standard from 'suburban footballers' they need to attract the best athletes. It's not enough to pay them a couple of hundred bucks a week.

It's the only way it will become a professional sport.

 

[Pykie]

It's hard to be a full time athlete without full time wages.

The competition was 8 weeks long this year. It'll be longer next year and even longer in 2020. There's also preseason. AFL footballers don't work only 6 months a year.

In order to lift the standard from 'suburban footballers' they need to attract the best athletes. It's not enough to pay them a couple of hundred bucks a week.

It's the only way it will become a professional sport.

I realise this, but even with a 14 week paid season with pre-season to finals, the girls would have to get paid an equivalent to their current wages in the workforce for it to be viable. You generally can't just leave your job for 14 weeks every year.

Some of these girls are midwives etc, on around $100k a year.

A $100k salary for an AFLW player given their season length, is the equivalent to $370k male salary based on a 52 week year. Which is around the male average wage.

Surely you see the problem with this given the chasm in commercial value between the mens and womens games?


The way it's structured at the moment is fine, the league is already pouring enough money into it as it is, some say they've gone TO far given the current standard (which is only about to get much worse)

I think they need to let it organically grow over the next decade, wait for the increase in standard from participation rates increases at grass roots level - commercial value, better pay, full time professionalism will soon follow when the dollars are coming into the womens side of the game.

The mens game can't support a massive expansion of AFLW, full time wages for girls, as well as GWS, GC, Brisbane etc.

 

[jackess]

I realise this, but even with a 14 week paid season with pre-season to finals, the girls would have to get paid an equivalent to their current wages in the workforce for it to be viable. You generally can't just leave your job for 14 weeks every year.

Some of these girls are midwives etc, on around $100k a year.

A $100k salary for an AFLW player given their season length, is the equivalent to $370k male salary based on a 52 week year. Which is around the male average wage.

Surely you see the problem with this given the chasm in commercial value between the mens and womens games?


The way it's structured at the moment is fine, the league is already pouring enough money into it as it is, some say they've gone TO far given the current standard (which is only about to get much worse)

I think they need to let it organically grow over the next decade, wait for the increase in standard from participation rates increases at grass roots level - commercial value, better pay, full time professionalism will soon follow when the dollars are coming into the womens side of the game.

The mens game can't support a massive expansion of AFLW, full time wages for girls, as well as GWS, GC, Brisbane etc.

It's not always going to be a 14 week competition.

The goal would be to have a full length competition and for it to be a full time job for those involved. The AFL isn't pumping all this money into it for it to be a 3 month warmup for the AFL season and they can't sit back and wait as other womens sporting leagues grow. They need to show that this is a career path for young women to follow so they can invest the time to bring this competition to a decent standard.

I do agree that they've made a huge mistake expanding the league so quickly but they have to be aggressive in expanding the talent base not just sit back and hope more women start playing footy and stick with it investing time during their school years risking their academic results.

 

[Pykie]

It's not always going to be a 14 week competition.

The goal would be to have a full length competition and for it to be a full time job for those involved. The AFL isn't pumping all this money into it for it to be a 3 month warmup for the AFL season and they can't sit back and wait as other womens sporting leagues grow. They need to show that this is a career path for young women to follow so they can invest the time to bring this competition to a decent standard.

I do agree that they've made a huge mistake expanding the league so quickly but they have to be aggressive in expanding the talent base not just sit back and hope more women start playing footy and stick with it investing time during their school years risking their academic results.

I agree.

But, it will be a full season when the talent base can support it, as well as the commercial benefit. Crowd numbers already dropped right off for year 2. The honeymoon period is wearing off and tbh most general footy fans don't like the product because of the standard.

Everyone is very impatient, the league is 2 years old. We can't hamstring the mens game because we want to bring the womens into full professionalism when they frankly at ready for it.

The mens league only became "fully" professional in the early 2000's. They were only training 3 days a week and some players did part time work right up until the late 90's.

The girls honestly don't warrant being full time professional athletes yet.

Give it 10 years, at least.

 

[jackess]

I agree.

But, it will be a full season when the talent base can support it, as well as the commercial benefit. Crowd numbers already dropped right off for year 2. The honeymoon period is wearing off and tbh most general footy fans don't like the product because of the standard.

Everyone is very impatient, the league is 2 years old. We can't hamstring the mens game because we want to bring the womens into full professionalism when they frankly at ready for it.

The mens league only became "fully" professional in the early 2000's. They were only training 3 days a week and some players did part time work right up until the late 90's.

The girls honestly don't warrant being full time professional athletes yet.

Give it 10 years, at least.

Don't you see an issue between the two bolded parts?

There was a novelty factor behind the success of the first season. It was great seeing footy in February but we're seeing the awful standard of footy taking its toll on attendance. The AFL can't wait that long for it to be turned around.

The AFLW has to be aggressive to take away talented sportswomen from following other paths to professional sports.

Also, there's no need to hamstring the AFL game. It's an investment and it might be safer to invest more than sitting back and letting it organically grow.

Also, do you see a correlation between the mens game become professional and the AFL earning incredible amounts of money. That's the proven business plan. Make it professional and allow sports people to concentrate on improving their own game and attracting people to play aussie roles as a profession.

Do you think there were many footballers in the 70s who would have lasted long playing in the current game if they weren't playing full time?

 

[jatz14]

I realise this, but even with a 14 week paid season with pre-season to finals, the girls would have to get paid an equivalent to their current wages in the workforce for it to be viable. You generally can't just leave your job for 14 weeks every year.

Some of these girls are midwives etc, on around $100k a year.

A $100k salary for an AFLW player given their season length, is the equivalent to $370k male salary based on a 52 week year. Which is around the male average wage.

Surely you see the problem with this given the chasm in commercial value between the mens and womens games?


The way it's structured at the moment is fine, the league is already pouring enough money into it as it is, some say they've gone TO far given the current standard (which is only about to get much worse)

I think they need to let it organically grow over the next decade, wait for the increase in standard from participation rates increases at grass roots level - commercial value, better pay, full time professionalism will soon follow when the dollars are coming into the womens side of the game.

The mens game can't support a massive expansion of AFLW, full time wages for girls, as well as GWS, GC, Brisbane etc.

It's now in a price war phase. RL has now jumped into a womens comp, with considerably less community women's contact RL than footy has. I am sure they would have loved to wait for organic growth, but in the face of what footy has done, could they? Without the carrot of a pro league, with a second AFLW team going into Queensland in 2020, and NSW in maybe 5 years, what growth do they get?

Women's sport is in a state of flux at the moment, and what sports will be the dominant, high profile women's Sports for decades, gets decided over the next 5 years or so.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[jatz14]

Bulldogs announced Bruton has left for another club, but no word which. They have lost Kearney and Bruton from their midfield.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Darkyprotector]

Do you honestly think salary is dictating the league at the moment?

Most of these girls that aren't marquee are on a couple of hundred $'s a game

It's more long term relationships these girls have had at lower leagues over their careers with certain coaches prior to AFLW and reuniting with old team mates and moving closer to home/supported sides etc that's dictating movement at the moment.


As I said earlier in this thread, most of North's recruits thus far are ex-MUWFC players, which was always going to be the case, we've had the longest relationship with a womens football club in the comp, by far.

No

 

[Pykie]

Bulldogs announced Bruton has left for another club, but no word which. They have lost Kearney and Bruton from their midfield.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Kaitlyn Ashmore (Brisbane) is also expected to sign for North in the next few days.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Jamie Stanton and Tahlia Randall from Brisbane both signed by North.

North also signed a Tassie player from the TWL (Maddison Smith?) and Jenna Bruton from the Bulldogs.

 

[iBeng]

I get the feeling Brisbane are going to get hemoraged. The girls didnt mind playing in Brisbane when the comp was small but now its time to head home.

 

[Caputo]

Nat Exon back in VFLW at Darebin

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Also Gillespie-Jones and Hardiman from Carlton are off to North.

 

[iBeng]

This is literally spreading the talent so damn thin. Brisbane just lost one of our best defenders AND a girl who came second on our best and fairest, Bulldogs lose THEIR best and fairest winner, Melbourne lose FOUR to one club...

How is this going to be sustainable longterm?

 

[DarkPhoenix]

 

[DarkPhoenix]

I get the feeling Brisbane are going to get hemoraged. The girls didnt mind playing in Brisbane when the comp was small but now its time to head home.

Randall is a queensland girl... coming to melbourne.

 

[iBeng]

"Strongest lists in AFLW history"

North beating themselves off over getting free pickings from clubs only 2 seasons into a competition. Classy.

Randall is a queensland girl... coming to melbourne.

That just makes it hurt more tbh.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

"Strongest lists in AFLW history"

North beating themselves off over getting free pickings from clubs only 2 seasons into a competition. Classy.



That just makes it hurt more tbh.

About to make it worse. Stantons original club was Coolangatta...



It's a members email, they're trying to sell the team to those that may have little interest so far, what do you want them to say "Yeah, nah, the list is looking Okay I guess. Maybe jump on board, you know if you want to?"

And honestly, are they wrong? It's a pretty damn strong line up.

The clubs the girls came from had every opportunity to counter offer, these aren't free hits.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

About to make it worse. Stantons original club was Coolangatta...



It's a members email, they're trying to sell the team to those that may have little interest so far, what do you want them to say "Yeah, nah, the list is looking Okay I guess. Maybe jump on board, you know if you want to?"

And honestly, are they wrong? It's a pretty damn strong line up.

The clubs the girls came from had every opportunity to counter offer, these aren't free hits.

Stanton and Randall might not be the only Lions headed for North.

A new club can take up to four players from any existing club (more, if by mutual agreement), and we must remember that *current* Lions Nicole Hildebrand and Kaitlyn Ashmore both played for Melb Uni in the VWFL/VFLW... Melb Uni is aligned with North.

The only thing that might stop both of them ending at North, is if the AFL steps in, with rules stating they can reject a signing.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Stanton and Randall might not be the only Lions headed for North.

A new club can take up to four players from any existing club (more, if by mutual agreement), and we must remember that *current* Lions Nicole Hildebrand and Kaitlyn Ashmore both played for Melb Uni in the VWFL/VFLW... Melb Uni is aligned with North.

The only thing that might stop both of them ending at North, is if the AFL steps in, with rules stating they can reject a signing.

Yeah, Ashmore is reportedly in Melbourne today too.

 

[Tas]

This is literally spreading the talent so damn thin. Brisbane just lost one of our best defenders AND a girl who came second on our best and fairest, Bulldogs lose THEIR best and fairest winner, Melbourne lose FOUR to one club...

How is this going to be sustainable longterm?

A club can only lose 4 players in total, Geelong raided Melbourne taking four players so anyone we were interested in from Melbourne we can't take now unless Melbourne agrees to the move, which is unlikely.

There is no easy way to expand and a lot will depend on the quality/quantity of new players that can replace the losses. I think it is going to be rough sailing a bit for the interim until the AFL stops introducing new teams. I think our aim is to have about half the squad from Tasmania so that will ease the pain somewhat if we can accelerate the development of players in our academy down there.

 

[jatz14]

This is literally spreading the talent so damn thin. Brisbane just lost one of our best defenders AND a girl who came second on our best and fairest, Bulldogs lose THEIR best and fairest winner, Melbourne lose FOUR to one club...

How is this going to be sustainable longterm?

If you look at Brisbane, they had a number of tall athletic, but somewhat raw talents on the list that hardly played a game last year. Add a good selection of youngsters to choose from this year, plus the ones they are developing internally. Ruby Blair was one of the best juniors for several years, didn't even get a run last year. That doesn't include the women currently doing really well in the QWAFL that are not from AFLW lists.

Frankly, Lions could lose 4 or 5 players to Vic, and still put out a better team next year than this year.

People are looking at the players going out the door and panicking, but are not considering that the talent coming in is going to be pretty good.

I am concerned people will have decided that the standard has dropped badly months before the first game has even been played.

Even some of the players delisted in 2017 have shown good improvement. Eagles are definitely looking at Freo cast offs on the basis they were not ready when picked initially, but can still become good AFLW quality players.

 

[BringBackTorps]

... we're seeing the awful standard of footy taking its toll on attendance.[Disagree] The AFLW has to be aggressive to take away talented sportswomen from following other paths to professional sports.[Agree]

Attendances at the AFLW are excellent by world standards for a female, stand alone H & A comp. -almost a world record average c.6500 per game. Crowds only dropped marginally in 2018 -but the big worry was the major drop in average total FTA & Foxtel ratings to c.130,000 per game.
The salutary lesson is the the Sept. 2016 female All Stars game, in prime time on FTA (with no concurrent AFL match), where the coaches agreed NOT to heavily flood. Scoring was good, it was very entertaining -& it rated over 1,000,000!

The average standard of the AFLW is not "awful" -its ok, & improved from 2017. Many find the games intense, women are courageous, many women have fairly good skills, & most games are usually enjoyable to watch in summer.

The problem is more goals need to be kicked. It appears the AFL will make changes to the AFLW that will nullify the coaches' extremely damaging massive & continuous flooding tactics (which caused embarrassing goal droughts in a few non-rain affected games). This "freedom"/reduction of big packs/opening up of AFLW games will allow the women to show their skills, & produce a better spectacle. It should result in more goals, better ratings, & bigger average crowds -thus a big boost for the AFLW.
Good ratings are essential if the AFL's desired ambition of AFLW players becoming full time professionals (for those desiring this) is to be achieved.

Most of the female Academy/TAC etc experts are predicting a big increase in NEW & more highly SKILLED recruits commencing in the AFLW in 2019 -thus, a general skill increase. Also, the established players are continuing to improve with more professional skills' training, better nutrition/fitness/recovery regimes etc.

It appears the NRL is having success (off a very low base) in encouraging young females to join GR contact RL comps. (ie not touch or tag). This, & the start of a short NRLW in 2018, may have a detrimental effect on female AF GR recruitment in NSW & Qld. in the future.