OK, how is Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc worse than Israel??

Lestat

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#26
^Eagle^ said:
Yep. And i also know the real story.

The 13 yr old girl was approaching the fence, and the soldier knew that they weren't allowed to allow Palestinian non-workers past the fence because they poised a terrorist attack(child bombers are often used by the p*ssy hammas/jihad/fatah as well). So, the soldier began to speak into the megaphone to let the girl know that she must turn back. he said this in arabic, english, hebrew and several prominent languages(not sure wot they wer). She continued to walk. the soldier did this for 10 minutes as she approached the fence. he was phoning his super because he didn't want to shoot the girl. He then proceeded to shoot bullets into the air. she continued to walk. he did this for 10 mins. After this, he began to shoot near the feet of the girl. Now, i know she was 13. but can you remember when you were 13? if a soldier with a gun who you had been brought up to believe was evil was telling you to turn around or face consequences, then he shot in the air and ~30 mins later was shooting at your feet what would you have done?
Oh....right then. I guess that justifies pumping her body with 20 bullets.

Your pathetic..you know that!

^Eagle^ said:
International law says that a civillian who resists a direct order from a soldier which does not conflict a belief or is considered "unreasonable"(theres some section in the UN laws) is no longer a civillian
International law also says that a civillian who is suspected to inflict harm and rejects a direct order from a soldier can be considered to be a civillian holding a weapon
International law also says that a civillian holding a weapon is no longer a civillian
Really now....and where exactly does 'international law' say that? Do you have any evidence to back up your ridiculous claim?

Or are you just making up sh(t as you go along. I suspect the latter.

Congratulations Eagle...I think with this comment you've just surpassed Frodo for ignorance, and even surpassed Miller for posting of lies.

^Eagle^ said:
So, under international law, the soldier was allowed to shoot the girl as soon as she rejected his first order, but he didnt. eventually he shot her. If you're an Israeli soldier, and anyone(ANYONE) is coming towards the fence, and rejecting orders to go back and is resisting the fact that there are bullets at her feet must be killed because it is almost certain that they possess a bomb. The soldier was extremely sorry about what he had done, but he had no choice. they couldnt try arrest her because one touch could mean an explosion(and IDF soldiers aren't like their enemies - they value their own lives)
Oh dear....I can't believe that you've actually attempted to justify this heineous act.

The soldier riddled her body with over 20 bullets! How do you explain that one sunshine?? Members of his own team reported him to authorities. Obviously his fellow soldiers believed he had over stepped the mark. Or are they also 'self hating' jews??

Thank you eagle...you've just showed us all how pathetic and inhumane you zionists really are.

why do I expect any differently from zionists pigs. You justify the murder of a 13 y.o girl.....how pathetic!
 

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#27
Your entire account is bulls.hit Eagle. I have seen the transcript and the video, nothing like what you described occurred. Other soldiers where calling for a ceasefire when it was clear she was a terrified girl, one even says as much. The officer acknowledges this fact but orders the troops to keep firing even when she is running away. Then he goes out and 'confirms the kill' Cold blooded murder Eagle nothing more nothing less. And what has the Officer been charged with" Negligence of duty thats all.

Something else for you to digest. At her school which is a UN sponsored school some 500 metres from the border, two of her schoolmates have shot at thier desks by Israeli sniper fire in recent times. Two to three Palestinian children are dying every week in the occupied territories as a result of Israeli military action.
 

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#28
^Eagle^ said:
no, im saying that around a year ago when Israel was on the news a lot more we were seeing images of a warzone, and when people think Israel, they think uncivillised. You cant argue with that.
You didn't mention "uncivilised", you said "third world". Two different things.

Either way, I don't think most people think of *Israel* as uncivilised, just the Government thereof, which is acting in a barbarous way toward a subjugated people.

^Eagle^ said:
blatant terrorist attacks?
Works both ways. Terrorist like activities are a staple of people living under occupation (or believing that so) from the French Resistance to Irgun, the IRA, Hamas, the Iraqi insurgents. Its quite often the modus operandi of the more militant of their opponents, such as the Protestant militias in Northern Ireland or Kach.

Whether that makes them right is almost a moot point - most subjugated groups have no real ability to fight back on a quasi-legitimate front, so they do what they can.

^Eagle^ said:
Not 100% sure about the land issues but isn't Arik pulling out of Gaza despite the anger from the Jewish settlers there? And the land wasn't stolen from the Palestinians, it was stolen from the neighboring Arab states during the six day war and much of it has been retained.
Not 100% sure eh? Well there are some incontrovertible facts. There are Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories, and removing them from Gaza (the smaller territory) does not mean there are not many more settlements in the West Bank. Another incontrovertible fact is that Israel regularly enters Palestinian towns and cities and destroys buildings - the homes of the Palestinians. Another incontrovertible fact is that Israel has consistently put barriers between Palestinian towns and between the towns and their hinterlands - where they make their living from. Oppression pure and simple - if this happened anywhere else in the world we'd be calling for sanctions against the oppressors.

As for not "stolen from the Palestinians", both the Gaza Strip and West Bank were part of the British mandate in Palestine, and were thus part of Palestine, not the surrounding states. At partition in 1948, the Palestinians were granted 45% of Palestine while the Jews were granted 55% (about the reverse of the populations IIRC). The fact is that the two OTs do not consist of 45% of the Palestinian Mandate; you can make a fair call that the difference is what Israel has gained due to Palestinian intransigence in the early days. However to take more of the land is clearly stealing it off the Palestinians.
 

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#29
^Eagle^ said:
International law says that a civillian who resists a direct order from a soldier which does not conflict a belief or is considered "unreasonable"(theres some section in the UN laws) is no longer a civillian
International law also says that a civillian who is suspected to inflict harm and rejects a direct order from a soldier can be considered to be a civillian holding a weapon
International law also says that a civillian holding a weapon is no longer a civillian

So, under international law, the soldier was allowed to shoot the girl as soon as she rejected his first order, but he didnt. eventually he shot her.
1-What i think you mean by 'unreasonable'is conduct that can be considered suspect,eg-running when ordered to stop ?.But that wasnt the case here.
2-But what if the civilian is unarmed?,no law permits the shooting of unarmed civilians[soldiers either].
3-you say he spoke to her in a number of languages,but he didnt try Arabic and that's probably why he received no answer.
 
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Admin #30
The sad thing about eagle's acceptance of the extremist dogma of influences such as Kahane is that it is occurring here in Australia. Here is a young impressionable person who is following the path of fanaticism and radicalism, the path to terrorism, right here amongst us (well some of us). What education standards do we have in Australia. What moral beacons are alight for youth to follow.
 

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#31
^Eagle^ said:
The Case For Israel by Allan Derm...??? inspired this post and the ideas expressed in this post are generally the idea of the book

The way people like Bluemark, etc are acting, they make it seem like Israel have commited the World's worst crimes. This is because i have never seen any of the anti-Israel posters on this board say political stances against things like the Ukranian election, the fact that Jews in Saudi Arabia have to mark their houses with black paint(what does that remind me of.....?) as passionately as you bag Israel. For a while, i have considered that anti-Israel means anti-semetic. but it does not. what anti-semetic means is someone who bags Israel, and barely says anything about other countries who have far worse human rights records, and overall international relations than Israel. This is anti-semetic.

I know, some of you will tell me that i'm changing the subject, because "we're talking about Israel here".... A harvard president in the 1920's once expelled Jews because "they cheat". When someone pointed out the fact that non-Jews cheat too, he said "You're changing the subject. We're talking about Jews here.".

So, bluemark, blueboy83, bombers 2003, MGREG, lestat, etc and anyone else i didnt mention, let me ask you this. What have Israel done to deserve such worse condemnation than the Zimbabwe gov't(who tear land away from whites and give it to blacks), Ukranian gov't(who rigged their 'democratic' elections), Saudi Arabian gov't(who make Jews paint part of their houses black), the French gov't(who govern a country in which people can 'practice their religion freely', but aren't allowed to wear head scarves in government schools), all of the Arabic countries whose human rights records disallow their female members to be liable members of the country), Pakistani gov't(who sentenced a girl to gang rape for cheating on her husband) and other numerous countries with such horrific human rights records. Please back up your claims with FACTS, not falsehood, and SUBSTANCE not slogans.

Why is your comment aimed at me amongst others?

I am on neither side.
 

sinepari

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#32
For all those criticising EAGLE:
Do not comment unless u have been in the same situation as the Israeli soldier. I am in no way condoning the acts that transpired, nor encouraging similar berhaviour in the future, but it is pivotal that one at least accepts that life from his point of view must be very challenging. Constantly living in fear at road blocks, no matter whether they should be there or not, must be a difficult thing to live with. Trigger happy soldiers eventuate for more reasons than simply overly agressive individuals. Fear is one such reason. The fact is, these soldiers should be out chasing girls and studying at UNI, not guarding road blocks.
 

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#33
sinepari said:
For all those criticising EAGLE:
Do not comment unless u have been in the same situation as the Israeli soldier. I am in no way condoning the acts that transpired, nor encouraging similar berhaviour in the future, but it is pivotal that one at least accepts that life from his point of view must be very challenging. Constantly living in fear at road blocks, no matter whether they should be there or not, must be a difficult thing to live with. Trigger happy soldiers eventuate for more reasons than simply overly agressive individuals. Fear is one such reason. The fact is, these soldiers should be out chasing girls and studying at UNI, not guarding road blocks.
Mate, I don't have to point a gun at an already terribly wounded girl, to know that I shouldn't shoot her.

Perhaps the Israelis should be doing what they can to ensure that their kids CAN chase girls and go to uni, rather than trying to grab land?
 

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#34
THe IDF fired a tank shell into a school yesterday and wounded 8 students, this incident got lost in the blowing up of a IDF checkpoint.
 

UNIT

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#35
The lesser of two evils is still evil, regardless of which one is more 'evil'. The Jews think they can do what they like and anyone who questions them is accused of being an anti semite/holocaust denier/terrorist....They would have to be the most arrogant group on the face of the earth for mind.
 

sinepari

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#36
UNIT said:
The lesser of two evils is still evil, regardless of which one is more 'evil'. The Jews think they can do what they like and anyone who questions them is accused of being an anti semite/holocaust denier/terrorist....They would have to be the most arrogant group on the face of the earth for mind.
Big call. I take it you have had personal dealings with every 'group' of people on Earth then, as you would need to in order to make such a call.
 

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#37
sinepari said:
Big call. I take it you have had personal dealings with every 'group' of people on Earth then, as you would need to in order to make such a call.
The thing is it has all the hallmarks of racism and anti-semitism, an outrageous lie with no basis in fact, delivered at the Jewish people. Tell me, does UNIT include Jews such as Noam Chomsky?
 

Lestat

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#38
Tim56 said:
The thing is it has all the hallmarks of racism and anti-semitism, an outrageous lie with no basis in fact, delivered at the Jewish people. Tell me, does UNIT include Jews such as Noam Chomsky?
How ironic.

Tim56, Perhaps you ought to take a good long hard look at yourself before accusing others of being racist.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
 

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#39
Not that I want to take either side in this debate (I think both sides are equally stuffed up) but one subtle difference I will point out in the incident with the 13 yr old girl. At least the shooter is facing some type of diciplinary action (not saying he does or doesn't deserve more) & it seams even some of his fellow soldiers have condemed his actions. Compare this with being hailed a martyr & going to paradise with virgins (what did they do so wrong).
Unless any of us have been there on that line with your life in your hands on a daily basis then how can we possibly know what really happened & how we would react in the same situation.
You can't use different moral standards to judge the actions of each side. The fact that Israel is a more wealthy country & therefore has a more advanced military capability doesn't make their murders any better or worse than the ones perpertrated by the PLO & Hamas. I have no idea who fired the first shot & I don't really care but no side is right.

I think they should simply build an even bigger wall around the original borders & once its completed keep every Jew on 1 side & every Palestinian on the other. problem solved!
 

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#41
hoss said:
I disagree. Countries such as the USA and Israel often take the moral "high ground".

If I see torture , humiliation of prisoners etc from a terrorist group or Saddam, it's just what I expect from such low-lifes. It is really disturbing however to see things such as Abu Ghraib when these acts are carried out by US personnel. A western civilised, democratic society should 'know better", should try and hold the moral high ground and not sink to the depths of its enemies.
the fact is they do exactly what the 'terrorists' do, we just don't see it so much because the media doesn't want to show it or the governments in these 'democratic' countries don't let them show it.
Thats the most amazing blight on these arguments, the so-called 'democratic' countries such as the US and Israel with OZ and the UK tagging along for the ride kill and maim innocent people everyday but we don't see it or neo-con followers don't want to see it becauase its us and "we don't do those sorts of things" heaven forbid, wake up and smell the coffee "we" are as evil as the rest "we" just do it with armies so its justified
 

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#44
demon_dave said:
the fact is they do exactly what the 'terrorists' do, we just don't see it so much because the media doesn't want to show it or the governments in these 'democratic' countries don't let them show it.
Thats the most amazing blight on these arguments, the so-called 'democratic' countries such as the US and Israel with OZ and the UK tagging along for the ride kill and maim innocent people everyday but we don't see it or neo-con followers don't want to see it becauase its us and "we don't do those sorts of things" heaven forbid, wake up and smell the coffee "we" are as evil as the rest "we" just do it with armies so its justified
Can you point me to the website where the Australian army directly or indirectly has been involved in blowing up passenger planes and/or beheading civilians.

Thanks

Medusala
 

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#45
Since Arafat died, 35 Palestinians have been killed by the IDF, many of them children. There have been at least 3 attacks on Palestinian schools the latest being a tank shell being fired into a school wounding 8 students on the same day (but earlier).

In the same period 6 IDF soldiers have been killed including the five in the mine explosion.

Also the IDF have also continued demolishing homes and expanding thier West Bank settlements.
 
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