Ok what the hell is going on with Starc

Crankitup

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7 wickets in the tour match which he just wrapped up with 2 in 2 balls. Bowled economical and accurate spells, bowled lethal wicket-taking spells on a road, got top order batters out, mowed down tail-enders. I reckon he's raring to go for the final couple of Tests.

And in case someone wants to mention that he went for 3.66 RPO in the second innings - I don't care what your economy rate is if you take 4-39.
His E/R for the match was 3.1 which is OK for a strike bowler. He took 7 out of the 20 wickets on offer. Take him out of the match and the result wouldn't have been anywhere near as emphatic.
 

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Crankitup

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Siddle has bowled better than his figures suggest this series, anyone who watched the tests he played in would attest to that. And this coming from someone who has been super critical of him the last few years but he knows these English conditions.

Starc is an incredibly unreliable bowler in tests, so much legside jank, no stock ball, lots of tail-end wickets.
They just played the same game together.

Siddle 3 wickets for the match but at a good E/R of 2.06. Starc 7 wickets at 3.1. Forced to choose between the two I know which one I would choose.
 

Ohitsthatguy

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It's not between Siddle and Starc.

It's between Patto and Starc.

I don't think Siddle makes it back into the side over Hazlewood unfortunately.
 

Crankitup

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It's not between Siddle and Starc.

It's between Patto and Starc.

I don't think Siddle makes it back into the side over Hazlewood unfortunately.
I know it's not but you talked about them both in the post I was responding to. It was a short hand way of me saying there's no way in hell I'd pick Siddle.

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Ishikawa

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How is someone who is clearly a better bowler than Pete Siddle not in the test side?
Obviously it's all about the role that is deemed required for team success. I am sure that you could find pound for pound more talented (or "better") footballers than Mark Hutchings, Mitch Robinson or Matt de Boer who consequently miss out on a midfield spot, but I know who I'd want in a side playing in a grand final tomorrow.
 

Crankitup

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In reply to Raspberry Juice's blog post.

It was therefore the thrift that Starc showed when he opened the bowling against Derbyshire on Thursday that furthered his case for a recall, as much as the stumps that he scattered when operating near full throttle later in the afternoon. "We know what Starcy can do in terms of blowing teams away," Paine said at day's end, after Derbyshire were dismissed for 172 and Starc finished with 3-46 from 16 overs (2.87 runs per over). "We also know, coming to England in the past, that hasn’t worked.

"So he’s been working really hard on getting his length right more so than anything." Although Starc's new-ball partner Michael Neser was the focus in the first half-hour on Thursday with two wickets from consecutive balls to have the home team reeling at 2-0, Starc's initial numbers were no less impressive. So immaculate was his length and line, he did not concede a run from the bat until his 23rd delivery of the innings. And not only did he keep a rein on the scoring rate, he completed a lengthy seven-over opening spell during which he beat the bat of Derbyshire opener Luis Reece and eventual top-scorer Leus du Plooy numerous times.

The one nick that he did induce, off left-hander Reece, fell just short of Steve Smith at second slip, such was the lack of pace and bounce in the Derby pitch.
When he did take a breather, to be replaced by the ever-economical Siddle, Starc's figures showed 0-15 from seven overs (2.14 runs per over) with four maidens. "I think his opening spell today was really good," Paine said. "I thought he bowled in very good areas.

"He bowled with good pace on a wicket that was very slow. "So I thought the signs that he showed with the new-ball were really good and then, like we saw again at the end (of the innings), he can go back to what his strengths are - attack the stumps and use his short-balls. "He's a handful for the tail as well."

When Starc returned for his second spell after lunch, with the ball bearing 36 overs of wear and tear and du Plooy well set on 58 not out, he started tidily before deciding to let go a few short deliveries aimed at the body of 23-year-old keeper Harvey Hosein. However, so slowly did the ball fly from the Derby surface that – after Hosein had been removed by Mitchell Marsh – Starc reverted to the full, fast and furious template that has served him so effectively across 51 Tests and 85 one-day internationals.

Starc claimed three wickets in an over // Getty


It's the sort of weapon that Paine might, in quiet moments, wish he could have called on as England's No.11 Jack Leach stayed with Ben Stokes for more than an hour to decide the result of the third Test at Headingley last weekend. But Paine also refuted suggestions that Starc's pre-eminent value in Test cricket is his ability to blast through otherwise obdurate tailenders.

"I don't think so … he's been working on his length and I think he showed some really good control in his first spell," Paine said. "He bowled a long spell too (seven overs followed by eight overs), which he doesn't do a lot when he plays for Australia. "I thought he controlled pretty well, and the areas he has been trying to improve - so he can be important for us in English conditions - I thought he showed today he's going really well with that.
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/mitchell-starc-australia-tour-match-derbyshire-england-ashes-fourth-test-highlights/2019-08-30
 

greatwhiteshark

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You must play bowlers that pitch the ball up in English conditions and Starc does that. Cummins and Patterson bowl short every ball and that is why we lost the last test. Pitch became a good batting track and bowling short is no issue for most reasonable batsman on a good batting pitch.
I have no idea if Starc will be the answer but he will at least pitch it up and give it a chance to swing. Hope they play him.
 

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Thomas2

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He has always done well historically against Sri Lanka, one of the weaker test sides. That 2016 series was probably his best, considering the performance of the side.

The other two series mentioned in that article he averaged over 30 with the ball for both. Pakistan in Australia isn’t exactly strong opposition either.


He doesn’t bowl with the consistency required on a regular basis to be a great test bowler. Too many times I have seen momentum slip because of this guy spraying the ball around only to then tidy up his figures with the tail.

Some of us have long memories.
 

Crankitup

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He has always done well historically against Sri Lanka, one of the weaker test sides. That series was probably his best, considering the performance of the side.

The other two series mentioned in that article he averaged over 30 with the ball for both. Pakistan in Australia isn’t exactly strong opposition either.


He doesn’t bowl with the consistency required on a regular basis to be a great test bowler. Too many times I have seen momentum slip because of this guy spraying the ball around only to then tidy up his figures with the tail.

Some of us have long memories.
You said he was very average ALWAYS has been. For 2016 he was judged our best Test bowler. How can that be VERY average?
 

Blue1980

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He has always done well historically against Sri Lanka, one of the weaker test sides. That 2016 series was probably his best, considering the performance of the side.

The other two series mentioned in that article he averaged over 30 with the ball for both. Pakistan in Australia isn’t exactly strong opposition either.


He doesn’t bowl with the consistency required on a regular basis to be a great test bowler. Too many times I have seen momentum slip because of this guy spraying the ball around only to then tidy up his figures with the tail.

Some of us have long memories.
His last 12 months in tests haven't been good at all. Him not playing the first 3 tests seemed to see his stock rise as people forgot how he was fairly poor last summer in tests against India.

This was always the worry, if Starc was off then it increases the workload on the other 3.
 

Thomas2

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You said he was very average ALWAYS has been. For 2016 he was judged our best Test bowler. How can that be VERY average?
I’m saying he had one good series in 2016. The rest of 2016 was average, the stats back it up.

The vast majority of the series he has played he has been average, the stats back it up. The occasional good series he has only emphasises how inconsistent he is.
 

Crankitup

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I’m saying he had one good series in 2016. The rest of 2016 was average, the stats back it up.

The vast majority of the series he has played he has been average, the stats back it up. The occasional good series he has only emphasises how inconsistent he is.
FMD. You can twist away as much as you like but the most inconsistent thing in this discussion is you and your arguments.

Do you realise that for 2016 he wasn't just awarded our Test Bowler of the year but Test Player of the year, beating out Steve Smith. He was our leading wicket taker in Tests. Not bad when you consider he missed most of the first half of the year following ankle surgery. He was our most effective bowler not just against Sri Lanka in both the home and away series we played against them that year but also against South Africa. Apart from him we were a rabble for most of the year.

Like I said originally, short memories.
 
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Carbine Chaos

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Once Richardson is back he leapfrogs Starc, Siddle and likely Pattinson as well. Cummins-Hazlewood-Richardson-Pattinson is pretty exciting moving forward.
 

Pykie

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FMD. You can twist away as much as you like but the most inconsistent thing in this discussion is you and your arguments.

Do you realise that for 2016 he wasn't just awarded our Test Bowler of the year but Test Player of the year, beating out Steve Smith. He was our leading wicket taker in Tests. Not bad when you consider he missed most of the first half of the year following ankle surgery. He was our most effective bowler not just against Sri Lanka in both the home and away series we played against them that year but also against South Africa. Apart from him we were a rabble for most of the year.

Like I said originally, short memories.
And do you realise he's up there with Mo Ali, Brett Lee and Umar Gul as the most uneconomical bowler of all time with more than 150 test wickets?

He's taken 70 of his 211 test wickets against no 9,10 & 11's.

He has plain average control of a cricket ball and along with Brett Lee probably displays the worst test cricket IQ i've seen in an Australian fast bowler since the 70's.

They are both bred from the same infant school of cricket tactics, bowl yorkers, short crap, full tosses and glory balls every second delivery. They both had fantastic ODI records because it's a format where you get massive protection on the boundary with field placement and can bowl this way and batsmen are trying to score off of you most balls so a more likely to get through them.

In test cricket, most batsmen with even the slightest bit of concentration know with Starc, that all you have to do is wait out a couple of decent balls, because 2-3 overs of full tosses, leg side yorkers and plain shit deliveries is right around the corner to score off.

Starc should just be thankful Steve Smith is on the same side as him, because if there is one player in world cricket that would absolutely take him apart, it's his teammate. It would be like a master against a baby with their respective patience levels.



Hazlewood, Pattinson and Siddle are just infinitely better test bowlers. From what I've seen of Richardson, he's far better suited as well.


Even in the tour game, half of his wickets came from yorkers to average non test level batsmen, this isn't a sustainable tactic against test quality batsman as his whole career has shown.
 

Crankitup

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And do you realise he's up there with Mo Ali, Brett Lee and Umar Gul as the most uneconomical bowler of all time with more than 150 test wickets?

He's taken 70 of his 211 test wickets against no 9,10 & 11's.

He has plain average control of a cricket ball and along with Brett Lee probably displays the worst test cricket IQ i've seen in an Australian fast bowler since the 70's.

They are both bred from the same infant school of cricket tactics, bowl yorkers, short crap, full tosses and glory balls every second delivery. They both had fantastic ODI records because it's a format where you get massive protection on the boundary with field placement and can bowl this way and batsmen are trying to score off of you most balls so a more likely to get through them.

In test cricket, most batsmen with even the slightest bit of concentration know with Starc, that all you have to do is wait out a couple of decent balls, because 2-3 overs of full tosses, leg side yorkers and plain s**t deliveries is right around the corner to score off.

Starc should just be thankful Steve Smith is on the same side as him, because if there is one player in world cricket that would absolutely take him apart, it's his teammate. It would be like a master against a baby with their respective patience levels.



Hazlewood, Pattinson and Siddle are just infinitely better test bowlers. From what I've seen of Richardson, he's far better suited as well.


Even in the tour game, half of his wickets came from yorkers to average non test level batsmen, this isn't a sustainable tactic against test quality batsman as his whole career has shown.


741931


So many holes in your wall of text I can't be bothered wasting too much of my time with it except to say this. It's pretty hypocritical of you to spend so much of your time bagging Starc's economy rate when in the same post you're pumping up Siddle's tyres. Part of the reason he was dropped after the last test he played was because of his economy rate in that game. 3.69 in the first innings and 3.6 in the second. This despite the fact he has a lot more protection in the field when he bowls than Starc did last night, who IMO had too many in the slips cordon for the road of a wicket he's bowling on.
 
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Pykie

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View attachment 741931

So many holes in your wall of text I can't be bothered wasting too much of my time with it except to say this. It's pretty hypocritical of you to spend so much of your time bagging Starc's economy rate when in the same post you're pumping up Siddle's tyres. Part of the reason he was dropped after the last test he played was because of his economy rate in that game. 3.69 in the first innings and 3.6 in the second. This despite the fact he has a lot more protection in the field when he bowls than Starc did last night who IMO had too many in slips for the road of a wicket he's bowling on.
Right, pick out 1 test for Siddle who's economy rate for his career has always been around 2.9 per over.

I'm going of 59 test matches of evidence for Starc.


I'd say the field has something to do with the 500 on the board? Just maybe?

Having additional slips should be a good thing for a bowler, it should tempt the batsman to drive. Starc's problems arise from the fact he bowls garbage all over the place and is very hard to set a traditional field to, which he very rarely bowls to anyway.
 

Crankitup

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I'd say the field has something to do with the 500 on the board? Just maybe?
And the fact that he's seen as a Strike bowler and Siddle isn't. I'll address some of your other crappy points later but right now I have a business to run.
 

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